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Why does it hurt so much to be aware?
I mentioned this on another thread but I've been particularly sad all day and wanted to discuss this a bit further.
I guess I'm past the honeymoon period of finally embracing what I consider my destiny, the acceptance of Buddhism, and my choice to follow the path.
I always felt compassion, thought I Was good, and cared about all living things etc...
So I finally accepted this and have started reading, meditating and taking classes at a local Shambhala center.
It feels good for the most part, and in fact the anger at my sister for her suicide has turned to compassion and forgiveness, the anger and frustration at seeing my two boys make life so hard for themselves again has turned to love and understanding and compassion.
I try to share some of my views with carefully chosen statements with my wife. She is very supportive, yet some of my most innocent statements seem to cut her deep and end up in the opposite results of what I had intended...
So now on a beautiful day like today I now walk in sadness at all this sorrow around me. I walk in pain, frustration and loneliness as I feel helpless do do anything about it, unable to help others, or to even speak my views to my non-Buddhist friends and family.
Is this normal? How can people not go insane knowing that the answers\peace\tranquility are within you yet unable to convey this or even talk about it with loved ones?
I finally have faith in something akin to a religion, but only because it makes sense and because it puts the ability to see and "control" within my self and not in some external source. Yet now that I'm a tiny bit aware of what goes on as we all go around and around in circles it feels like I see a truck barreling down one others yet I cannot yell or let them know that truck is about to hit them?
To be honest this is the only place where I can talk about this since even at the Shambhala center I don't know anyone to talk to since so far it's mostly meditation, and general principles etc.. I have not made a one on one connection with anyone enough to speak with about things like this.
Any comments and opinions are very much welcome and needed for right now I feel like I'm walking all alone in the middle of a vast hot desert. :hrm:
Thanks in advance,
Ivan
I guess I'm past the honeymoon period of finally embracing what I consider my destiny, the acceptance of Buddhism, and my choice to follow the path.
I always felt compassion, thought I Was good, and cared about all living things etc...
So I finally accepted this and have started reading, meditating and taking classes at a local Shambhala center.
It feels good for the most part, and in fact the anger at my sister for her suicide has turned to compassion and forgiveness, the anger and frustration at seeing my two boys make life so hard for themselves again has turned to love and understanding and compassion.
I try to share some of my views with carefully chosen statements with my wife. She is very supportive, yet some of my most innocent statements seem to cut her deep and end up in the opposite results of what I had intended...
So now on a beautiful day like today I now walk in sadness at all this sorrow around me. I walk in pain, frustration and loneliness as I feel helpless do do anything about it, unable to help others, or to even speak my views to my non-Buddhist friends and family.
Is this normal? How can people not go insane knowing that the answers\peace\tranquility are within you yet unable to convey this or even talk about it with loved ones?
I finally have faith in something akin to a religion, but only because it makes sense and because it puts the ability to see and "control" within my self and not in some external source. Yet now that I'm a tiny bit aware of what goes on as we all go around and around in circles it feels like I see a truck barreling down one others yet I cannot yell or let them know that truck is about to hit them?
To be honest this is the only place where I can talk about this since even at the Shambhala center I don't know anyone to talk to since so far it's mostly meditation, and general principles etc.. I have not made a one on one connection with anyone enough to speak with about things like this.
Any comments and opinions are very much welcome and needed for right now I feel like I'm walking all alone in the middle of a vast hot desert. :hrm:
Thanks in advance,
Ivan
0
Comments
Don't worry too much about talking to people and your skills to do so.
Craving connections too much might not be good right now.
You have plenty of things to talk about already, thinking about talking about this with your relatives is just another thing to fill your mind.
Maybe just focus on meditation for a while.
Maybe later you can talk more.
Maybe go to a Vipassana retreat, where you will be able to focus entirely on meditation.
I'm just very grateful for this forum for it gives me a place to share my thoughts and to add my opinion to others who actually are open to what I have to say.
Thank you!
ivan
Perhaps talk about baseball with him, i don't know how old is he but you could go out and play with him, or buy him a couple of tickets to a sport event...
Perhaps try to be the friend who your son can relax and have fun with, so he can forget about his problems and have a moment of peace with..
The friend role might be good instead of the therapist right now.
Perhaps he will open up after a while.
You haven't mention many details on your relationship with your son so i'm just guessing here, perhaps you do what i mention already...
I do NOT talk about Buddhism, or what I'm doing with them at all, and accept them exactly as they are.
But I see them struggle with not having money of their own, or even having any motivation to earn some, with wanting things yet they are not motivated enough to get jobs, earn some cash to put in their pocket etc.. They struggle with who they are, and with happiness for all the usual reasons that we all experience. My dad taught me the value of working and sadly I do feel like somehow I failed to teach them this by giving them what I could to make it easy for them.
It's just that now that I don't try to interfere, and as I find my own way in this confused world, It pains me to know that life would be so much easier if they just lived it and experienced through action instead of letting life come to it.
And it's not just them, but I'm using them as an example here because they are the ones I care about the most... but it's everyone else as well. I have co-workers who spend more energy trying not to work than actually working. People want the easy way & fast way out of everything.
So I walk around struggling with my own journey but at the same time feel like those around me don't see that they too are struggling and that it would be so much easier if they just let go of so many petty concerns over material things and over pettiness towards one another.
So while I learn to train my mind to use it instead of letting me use me, while I search for answers, learn to be compassionate instead of angry I see others around me walk around in their sleep, unhappy and sad. It feels lonely being in the middle of all this misery.
My main question is, how normal\common is this? To feel sad and down for the state of humanity while at the same time I see hope for myself through the teachings of Buddha? I feel helpless to do anything for others (especially my sons) as I continue to learn and to help myself as I seek true happiness and peace? I'm not worried about me as I know that I can handle these emotions I'm just curious as to how common this is to feel this misery as one starts to be more aware of our surroundings and begins to follow the path of Buddhism.
The one thing I knew since I was a small child, is that all I ever wanted was to be happy and to be left alone\allowed to do so. Now that I can see that this is truly possible, it feels like it's a very lonely road.
But thanks for your concern about my sons. I appreciate your comments very much, and in fact I actively work on having a better relationship with them in many different ways least of all is preaching or trying to force them to follow my particular path.
*Hugs*
Sometimes when we begin to really become aware, it is like we feel more pain, but the pain has been there a long time. I suggest you be patient with yourself, in following the path you may (and it appears that you are) resolving some old stuff.
It may be that your wife doesn't relate well enough to the experiences you're struggling with to respond in a way that is helpful for you. Telling her that you are suffering and need help might be a way to help her see what your needs are in the conversation. The transition from your pain to her wounds is a little misty, if you want to embellish what that looks like it might be easier to help.
With warmth,
Matt
Thanks Matt, I feel great about myself, what I'm doing etc. like I finally came home. And yes while I'm sure there are issues from the past being resolved and all that I know it's part of the process. I'm just wondering if this is a common effect as one chooses to explore the possibilities of letting go, of searching and training the mind.
We all suffer in life and I guess now that I'm conciously realizing this, and accepting it, I feel helpless as I see loved ones (and strangers for that matter) suffering as well and going through life in such pain without even knowing it. Surely this is not uncommon to feel the way I do.
As for my wife she is incredibly supportive and we are in very good terms but some of my innocent statements get taken the wrong way and she feels that I come off as arrogant etc... I've learned (even before Buddhism) not to give too many opinions but I thought she would understand what I meant since she knows me etc.. but either she does not know me or understand me as much as I though or I just don't know how to express my ideas correctly (judging by this post I think it might be the latter
To sum it up, I've developed my own way of finishing up my private meditation, which might explain what I mean better than all the preceding statements.
When I'm done I place my hands in prayer position, touch my:
Forehead and think\whisper, I hope to learn to use my mind
Mouth and think\whisper, I hope to learn to still my mouth
Heart and think\whisper, I hope to learn to open my heart to those around me.
Anyway, just reading everyone's comments, and feeling the concern has made my day a much much better one.
Thank You!
Everyone is their own traveler in this Samsara.
Each goes their own path...when they are done... they do it again.
I'm not sure why, for the sake of experiences? who knows..
But just know everyone is their own traveler. You can't stay with them , because each traveler has their own path.
You can't go down the same path as anyone, because each person is different and occupies different space and karma..
your children are.... not of you.. you helped them enter this round of travel, but you didn't start them off in the first place, they very well could have been your parents at one time...
anyway I'm not sure this is much to make you happier, but the fact is, everyone travels alone. It is a sacred duty, or a right, or something, that we must travel alone..the law of impermanence demands it,
my last piece of advice you , may be the most important you will ever receive in your life;
You can't help your sister anymore, except for one way..
You feel like you can't help your children. except there is a way...
in the long run,
when you become enlightened,
when you achieve Buddhahood
You will help your sister, (even though she is someone else's sister or brother now),
you will help your children, (the future versions and if you are in time the current versions, )
you could help EVEN ME and a countless number of beings..everyone on this planet and universe and then some..
This is why I believe Buddha left his family in India or wherever kingdom .
He didn't abandon them!
He realized he could help them much more by FOCUSING on the Dharma, it's that powerful
so FOCUS on that and I believe good things will fall into place for you and everyone else
We need a dramatic chord here! Duh duh duhnnnnnnn....
Ivan,
There is a phenomena that was called the 'soft heart of compassion' by someone, though I can't remember who. It describes a softness, a tenderness... that we experience for all living beings because we are all one. From what you're saying, it sounds like you might be experiencing that. If it is sadness/hope/joy, then it might be just peachy and a common experience of compassion along the path. If it is sadness/hopelessness/dispair then you might wish to take another look at the purpose of suffering. It can be helpful to respect the role suffering plays along the path
As for the wife, unasked for advice is rarely welcome. If she asks you for help, maybe try to give her help in a way that relates to her way of looking at things, rather than attempting to convert her mind. Sometimes people (especially women, in my experience) want nothing more than a good ear to unload toward... to be heard. Attempting to correct or analyze the situation is not as skillful as taking her hand, looking into her eyes and offering her your silent empathy.
Wine helps too
With warmth,
Matt
Just be mindful of your own actions. In time, joy will arise with your compassion.
Namaste
Thank you for sharing this part of your journey so openly and honestly. I would suggest that your experiences are quite normal and understandable. You've heard the phrase "ignorance is bliss" yes? Well, what I have found is that the more my heart and mind are opened to reality and to insight; the more delusional thought processes that have molted away; the more compassion I feel for beings encountered, the more my heart breaks for all the dukkha and kamma-vipaka I routinely witness.
That being said, over time the positive results of the practice are so obviously superior to having not practiced, that the idea of going backwards with my ego-laden monkey head in the sand would be a true hell realm nightmare. Part of having compassion is harnessing the strength to be vulnerable to those we love and to fully test the waters of the middle way. I say Carpe Diem!!
The reason I ask you to do this is because oftentimes, especially if we've gone through an especially painful past, we see the world through the lens of "there's something wrong" -- "there's something wrong with me" -- "there's something wrong with the world." When you hold back the urge to find problems in your life, you start maybe to realize that there's nothing fundamentally wrong to begin with, that nobody really needs your help in the way you think they do, and (especially) that there's nothing wrong with you.
When you shut off the instinct to find problems to solve, you may find it easier to incorporate what you've learned from Buddhism more smoothly into your life, without the missionary compulsion to save everybody, all at once, all by yourself. People have a built-in instinct to move towards emotional health and functioning. It's what brought you to Buddhism. Your wife has it. Your sons have it. And so do other people in the world. Trust in them to be their own lights.
It's probably hard not to see a lot of yourself in your sons and try to help them as you help yourself, but sometimes it helps to remember that Kahlil Gibran poem: "Your children are not your children. They are the sons and the daughters of life's longing for itself. They come through you, but they are not from you. And though they are with you, they belong not to you."
I think Glow's response is a good one. There is always pain in awakening - how could it be otherwise? Now that you can see differently you want things to be different. That is both compassionate and an attachment to wanting something (in this case, change!). This is a deep issue and one that takes a lot of reflection.
One thing that comes to mind for me when I read your posts is advice that was given to Andrew Harvey (modern English Mystic) by his Tibetan master - "One thing that will help you most on this path and in meditation is to simply to become like butter in the sun - just melt" i.e. practice letting go and relaxing deeper and deeper into the warmth.
and just to be clear, I'm not feeling depressed, or dispair, just sadness to what I see around me and joy that I'm finally following and committing to my own path.
Texashermit in particular you hit it dead on, ignorance is bliss, and I'm no longer ignorant or at least not in the usual way. I wanted to hear that what I'm going through is normal, a part of beginning to wake up.
Glow, I'm not trying to save anyone, preaching or giving advise although I will try what you said and just "be" for a while... funny thing is that your quote of that poem brought a flashback to my teen years when my sister (one that is still very much alive and very close to) wrote that in a book she gave me once. It might have even been Herman Hesse's book Damien I can't recollect.
As for my wife, after 21 years I know better than to give her advise when not asked and do try to listen. What I meant is that even when try to convey clear ideas through simple statements of what I'm going through or even about my feelings as a parent, she misunderstands what I meant and thinks that I come off arrogant etc... so I'm realizing that I need to be even more reserved with her than even strangers which is opposite of what one would expect.
And to be clear, this is something that I have experienced in the past, and it's not tied to Buddhism per say although the effect is more pronounced. For instance I play classical guitar, and have also lost about 55 lbs so when it talk about playing music or how I lost weight I realized that my statements might sound like I'm "stuck up" like I know better etc... so I have learned to not provide as much advise as I used to, and if I do to preface the statement with "this is what works for me" etc...
So guys & gals, thank you so much for your much needed emotional support. I'm very happy in my journey and wanted some reassurance that my sad feelings are all part of the process. Including the others that I did not mention specifically, you have all given me some great insights, and I appreciate your words and your intent with all my heart, so Thank You so much!
Ivan
Oh! No No!
Listen to her with compassion and show that you are listening
but delay your response and wait and see the results
i am sure you will see positive outcome
Hondahitha, Oh I listen and I do show compassion etc... what I meant was that I need to be careful of what I say about (me) what I'm thinking and what I'm feeling because what I mean to say, she hears a completely different message. So I need to keep thoughts to myself so I don't end up being misunderstood, or misjudged.
However when she speaks to me, I have learned to listen quietly pay attention, and try not to give advise unless I'm asked or to be judgeamental.
It is normal to feel this way Ivan. But there is no point in it. Just concentrate on yourself and doing what you can do for others. We cannot change other people's lives for them. The best we can do is help them in the path but taking the path is ultimately upto them. It is not a mandatory step to follow the spiritual path IMHO. If some person is happy and content with their way of life and do not see any suffering in it or they see suffering but they are fine with it then let it go. The Buddha himself did not try to drag everyone into the Buddhist path. Ultimately it is a personal choice IMO.
Awareness, as I understand, is not analyzing each and everything that you come across like this is good, that is bad, this is hard, that is right, this is wrong. Awareness is being present in the present moment and abandoning all kinds of thoughts of the past, future, daydreaming, analyzing, labeling etc. When the mind is focused on the present without any inner chatter, it is peace to begin with plus it is the first level practice to ready the mind for meditation. In this type of practice you do not cling or hate anything specifically. everything is just the way they are. You be in the reality of here and now. It takes time to practice so keep at it.
I am reminded of one of Aj Brahm's teachings with your sharing.
this is not just her but we all are like that
we think something, the words we use are not exactly the same as we thought, the other person hears something else because of her/his background is different, s/he interprets something else, s/he responses to the interpretation, we get a different message than what other person wants to say
so how many distortions happens in between
no wonder we have conflicts if we are not in the same page
You can just give your heart and be their friend.
Its like the student who was going crazy and finely yelled at his master to show him enlightenment. "haven't I always poured you your tea and soup?" his master said...
But somewhere along the path you will see that all suffering is empty of a self nature and you will see first hand how you can show people the dharma without encroaching on their nerves and indoctrinating them to buddhism. I was at lunch with some family after a death in the family and a lady who I was I guess related to was crying because she felt her grandfather was misunderstood. She was apologizing. And I said its ok just be how you are. Thats what I have realized from the dharma in part so far. I don't claim realization of emptiness and all I just know that sometimes you have to cry.
Edit: PS I think the question on what to do with that great sadness is a great question for a teacher. I wish I could answer better.
Olarte, You describe this experience very well here and I know exactly what you mean. I have felt this myself as well as the phenomena of hurting more the more aware I become. I don't know how common it is I only know my experience. However it is described by Pema Chödren. When she describes it to her teacher Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche he said it was because she was not used to being awake and he seemed to infer that she just had to stay with the experience and overtime would become used to it.
I gain alot from reading the work of Pema Chödron. Her teacher Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche wrote a book about the Shambahala myth as a parable for for how to conduct your life. I wish I had a teacher I could meet and talk to though.
Shambhala ... Pema Chodron is principal teacher at Gampo Abbey in Nova Scotia, a Shambhala abbey. You can buy audio lectures by her and I have found her teachings more helpful than any other source, even my own teacher.
Yes, your feelings are normal ... I do not remember which Pema Chodron lecture I heard it in, but she speaks of the "bittersweet quality" of the Practice, how it feels almost like "unrequited love".
Another thing she says is that opening up and living fully is the way of the warrior ... it takes a lot of courage to face one's own negative emotions. Your wife may not want to be a warrior. I have a (non-Buddhist) partner who likes to relieve his tension by going down into the basement, watching TV, and drinking. I cannot solve this for him, I cannot help him.
I initially found it difficult to develop one-on-one within my own sangha, but found that once I started volunteering and working on the Board I began to develop friendships with those who also volunteered. I find it very helpful and buoying to have people to talk with, so I understand your wish.
As it happens I'm taking classes at the local Shambhala center and I like what I'm learning and reading very much. So some of the names mentioned here are already familiar to me.
Also, We had a very special weekend with my youngest son, his girlfriend and my wife. We went to the museum of natural history in NYC which I had gone several times on a very special summer with my dad, so it was nice to repeat history this time with my son and his girlfriend.
I'm doing my best to apply many of the teachings that I've come across so far, and it has changed the quality of my life considerably. For instance the weekend did not have a single moment of negativity, partly due to my being more aware and focusing on being non-judgagmental in fact it felt like a couples weekend with my son, instead of my playing the big authority (ego ladden) father role. it was great.
Another small example is that I'm now doing some of the chores that need to be done like mowing the lawn without any further tension and bad energy when I tried to get my kids to do the right thing. They are old enough to know better, and if not it's their choice.
ON the positive side, I get exercise, and don't waste\use all this energy being the parent, being angry, being forceful. They both thanked me for doing the lawn (cause again they know better) and maybe next time they will do it instead of being asked. If not the lawn will get done by me without any further arguments, or bad feelings.
It's weird but once you realize that sometimes it's better to just be, and do the right thing, other things fall into place.
Anyway, thanks to all, and I for one will continue to read, to learn and to open myself even more to being aware, awake and alive!
Peace & Love to you,
ivan
Wow, that is a lot to overcome. What practices were most helpful in overcoming all of that?