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Buddhism & Christianity: Not Reconciliable
Transmetaphysical
Veteran
I've seen that there are people who call themselves Buddhist Christians or those who try to show how they are compatible. Or some people were brought up Christian and want to keep parts of Christianity with them in their Buddhist practices.
I agree that both religions teach compassion and good deeds. But I simply have to say that Buddhism is not, has not, and never will be compatible with Christianity. The philosophies are entirely different and that's actually something I can appreciate. I don't feel that there should be one single philosophy that everyone agrees on. As Dalai Lama said, everyone has different mental dispositions and different philosophies satisfy different people.
There is no need to strip down Christianity or Buddhism just to blend them into one agreeable philosophy. It's not even possible to do so. Just like there is no need to reconcile the philosophy of Spinoza with the philosophy of Kant. Accept that they are different and appreciate them for what they are. (I am a formal debater and I may debate til my death over which is better, but i would be disappointed if I were to actually succeed to convince you.)
Contrast:
- Buddha says God is irrelevant and Enlightenment and Nirvana is the purpose. Christianity says eternal life with God is the ultimate goal.
- Buddha says believe nothing, even if he has said it, unless it agrees with your own reasoning. Jesus says believe and have faith, only in him, and he will grant you salvation.
- Buddha said all beliefs are barriers to knowing the truth; be silent and know. Christianity says belief is a virtue and required to get to heaven.
- Buddhism transcends the fight between good and evil and accepts that both are necessary because one can't exist without the other. Christianity wants good to triumph over evil.
There are many other differences, but these are some major reasons why they're incompatible.
(This is something I felt that needs to be said, because if I see something that doesn't seem right to me, I will not hesitate to point it out and express my views.)
Edit: I would like to clarify that I am referring to Orthodox Christianity (fundamentalist as opposed to mystical or Gnostic).
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I agree that both religions teach compassion and good deeds. But I simply have to say that Buddhism is not, has not, and never will be compatible with Christianity. The philosophies are entirely different and that's actually something I can appreciate. I don't feel that there should be one single philosophy that everyone agrees on. As Dalai Lama said, everyone has different mental dispositions and different philosophies satisfy different people.
There is no need to strip down Christianity or Buddhism just to blend them into one agreeable philosophy. It's not even possible to do so. Just like there is no need to reconcile the philosophy of Spinoza with the philosophy of Kant. Accept that they are different and appreciate them for what they are. (I am a formal debater and I may debate til my death over which is better, but i would be disappointed if I were to actually succeed to convince you.)
Contrast:
- Buddha says God is irrelevant and Enlightenment and Nirvana is the purpose. Christianity says eternal life with God is the ultimate goal.
- Buddha says believe nothing, even if he has said it, unless it agrees with your own reasoning. Jesus says believe and have faith, only in him, and he will grant you salvation.
- Buddha said all beliefs are barriers to knowing the truth; be silent and know. Christianity says belief is a virtue and required to get to heaven.
- Buddhism transcends the fight between good and evil and accepts that both are necessary because one can't exist without the other. Christianity wants good to triumph over evil.
There are many other differences, but these are some major reasons why they're incompatible.
(This is something I felt that needs to be said, because if I see something that doesn't seem right to me, I will not hesitate to point it out and express my views.)
Edit: I would like to clarify that I am referring to Orthodox Christianity (fundamentalist as opposed to mystical or Gnostic).
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Comments
Not anymore.
Conventional Christianity is completely irreconcilable with Buddhism. If fact, Buddhism is completely irreconcilable with any other religion, since no other religion has dependent arising.
I didn't say to follow your own reasoning either. It is, as you said, a tool of discernment.
The actual quote is this: "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who said it, even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
I think his use of the word faith is a bit different just like the word "suffering" doesn't correctly describe "dukkha."
Perhaps, but nonetheless, Buddhism transcends dualism.
This is established in Buddhist understanding.....
Thanks for clarifying that. That's what I was thinking as well, but I couldn't assert it with certainty.
As I said, the Buddha did not say this.
:buck:
It is a faculty of mind.
Faith in Jesus, engaged as a mental faculty, is the same mental faculty when faith in the Eightfold Path.
Christians have confidence in Jesus.
Buddhists have faith in the Buddha, Sangha, EightfoldPath and viraga (dispassion).
The Buddha said the highest saddha (faith, trust) is that in dispassion (the cessation of craving).
This is established in Buddhist understanding.
:crazy:
Buddhism teaches the eradication of evil is possible because all beings have Buddha-Nature.
Christianity teaches all beings are inherently sinful (evil) and require the forgiveness & grace of Christ.
The Buddha said:
The Bible states:
Again, you are confusing Taoism with Buddhism.
The Buddha said Right View or Right Belief is the forerunner of all skilful dhammas.
:smilec:
Indeed, I met many "BuJus" during my own stay in Dharamshala.
Here's the source:
http://spectrumofbeliefs.blogspot.com/2009/04/buddha-explaining-existence-of-god.html
I think that transcending Dualism is a concept in both Buddhism and Taoism.
There is no "Right Belief" in the Eightfold Path. Lol. "Right belief" sounds like Christianity.
Right View means right vision and right understanding.
And you just helped me demonstrate how much different their concepts of evil are. Evil is a broad term and is used differently between different religions. In Christianity, anything that is a rejection of or "separation from God" is evil (Satan rejected God, Hell is "separation from God").
In Buddhism, evil is not dependent on or have anything to do with God.
The Buddha did not teach non-duality. It fact, he censured those who tried to assert non-duality. The Buddha taught there is right view and wrong view.
It means right understanding or right knowledge.
It is not the spaced out vision of clear awareness but the vision that sees the true nature of phenomena, such as the conditionality, their impermanence, their unsatisfactoriness & their not-self nature. Right view sees good and evil clearly.
In the quote above from MN 9, right view and right confidence (faith) are included in the same sentence.
If I told you that by pressing the "A" key on your computer, it would explode, you would not use it.
Why? Due to a lack of faith.
Do you sit on a chair with one leg missing? No. Why? No faith in the chair.
Everything you do in life has it first foundation in faith. This is something very basic.
The Buddha advised faith is the first spiritual faculty (indriya) and power (bala).
But because you do not understand your own mind, you try to turn faith into some superstition.
Faith is a basic mental faculty. It is not something inherently religious.
I recommend some self-examination.
:smilec:
Relative truth becomes very confusing.
For example, Jesus said about evil: Your view appear to be mixed between mundane religion and supramundane religion. Mundane religion is the fairytales taught to children. Both Buddhism and Christianity are replete with fairytales. To the spiritually immature and cynical, Paul said:
I am not sure where one could develop the view that evil in Christianity does not refer to harmful actions that inflict pain & problems onto human beings.
Also, the Bible teaches non-duality:
Well, I think Jesus' teachings on evil are much more sound than Yahweh's. They seem to have opposing views on what evil is (despite the claim that they are the same person. I was actually told that Jesus attempted to dispense of Yahwism, which sounds reasonable to me.)
Because Christianity teaches that war is ok and that homosexual love is not. So Christianity doesn't care too much about harmful action, but rather if it's commanded by God or not.
"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." (I Samuel 15:2-3)
I don't see how that is teaching non-duality. If it truely taught non-duality then it wouldn't require for good to triumph over evil. That verse you refer to was a commandment by God to test Adam and Eve's obedience and had nothing to do with teaching non-duality.
Yes, wise words. I agree that Jesus had some good things to say, and probably close to what Buddha taught. However, Christianity as a whole doesn't seem to fit with that.
I personally feel that the Gnostic Gospels are more accurate of Christ than the Bible. There are many things in the Bible that just don't seem right and don't seem to fit with the essence of Jesus.
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He said that Christian Buddhists reach their decision because they are dissatisfied with the Yahwistic aspect and the whole God idea altogether. However, they don't want to get rid of Jesus. They still have the belief in Jesus Christ as the perfect human being, and this is actually sort of like Buddhism. So I can see how taken from that perspective, perhaps a radical (Godless) form of Christianity is in fact, compatible with Buddhism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27YBzew_8Cs
Take a look. I like what this guy has to say. :]
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I think this is a very important distinction. "Christianity" often pretends to be Jesus' religion but I really don't think that it is. I think mainstream Christianity has completely missed the point of what Jesus was about.
I was raised Catholic, rebelled against it in my youth, and now I have recovered some respect for it in the last few years...or rather respect for the more open-minded, compassionate "Christians."
Particularly, I believe that Jesus' teachings are full of wisdom, but his message has been perverted over the years. Jesus did not write the bible. Jesus would not advocate war or prejudice.
"Show me where Jesus said
The righteous should be warriors
and the wicked should be dead"
And I don't think he wanted to be worshipped as God. He wanted people to love their neighbor and to turn the other cheek. Jesus was seeking the same truth that Buddhists seek.
I try to follow the eightfold path and I go to a Morman church.
Thank you. You have summed up my thoughts precisely. :]
In Buddhism, labels can be dispensed of and serve no important purpose. However, labels are important in Mormonism. The Book of Mormon says that it is the one true church, and all the others are wrong. So I think Mormonism is another religion that's not compatible with Buddhism.
Yeah it's irrelevant to what the Buddha taught. He said he only taught an extremely small ratio of what he knew and could have taught. It doesn't mean God or Christianity is irrelevant to one's life.
I guess I've got a conundrum. I have a faith that keeping "God's commandments" will lead to living with him. I also believe the eightfold path leads to peace, discernment, enlightenment and nirvana.
I like the South Park episode where God is a Buddhist. That would be awsome.
Why was it not simply an example of God said "don't go to the strip club?"
:buck:
I advised you earlier, Buddhism has a greater emphasis upon ending evil than Christianity.
Christianity believes evil is inherent and only the love of Jesus can provide evil people with a sense of grace.
In fact, I noticed your posts about drugs.
:-/
One cannot compare apples & oranges.
It is like saying Buddhism teaches the truth of emptiness and Christianity teaches the superstition of heaven & hell.
But I can quote Jesus teachings that say to be reborn is something mental (spiritual) rather than physical and quote Buddhist teachings about all kinds of superstitions.
Similarly, mainstream Christianity may not be the religion, just like Buddhist monks who played an active role in the recent war in Sri Lanka are not Buddhist.
The fact is, there are no teachings in the New Testament that support war.
Your quote from the Old Testament is irrelevent.
Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world. He said the meek would inherit the earth. He said to love thy enemy. He said if one cheek is slapped, offer the other.
To end, one cannot compare the mainstream aspects of one religion with the transcendent aspects of other.
Each religion has transcendent aspects and each religion has manifest in the mainstream world.
Your thoughts were Christianity teaches that war is ok.
The are two kinds of language. Jesus said:
John 3:6
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
John 6:55
For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
Was Jesus teaching cannibalism here?
The Buddha taught the Deathless is Nirvana. The Deathless and Nirvana is where no suffering and no death occurs. The Death is Eternal Life.
Christianity teaches the same thing, that is "victory over death".
In Genesis, God warned the knowledge of good and evil leads to death.
But Adam & Eve ate the fruit but they did not die physically. Their death was a spiritual death, ie, suffering (dukkha).
Then God placed a sword around the Tree of Life, to stop Adam and Eve from reaching it.
But Jesus came and said "I am the way to the Tree of Life".
Genesis 2:9
And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
Genesis 3:24
After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
Revelation 2:7
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Revelation 22:2
down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
Revelation 22:14
"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
Revelation 21:4
He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
:smilec:
Is that compatible with Buddhism?
:crazy:
I must clear this up.. you mean the eightfold path and the living the commandments and the results there of are the same kinda thing you know what I mean? If yes then I appreciate this and pretty much agree.
It is like comparing the understanding of a kindergarten student to a university professor.
:hohum:
Buddhism and drug taking have zero compatibility.
:eek2:
Well said, DD.
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My father is an Eastern Orthodox Christian.
At funerals, the mystic priest does not say the deceased goes to heaven.
They say the deceased exists in "God's Eternal Memory" (that is, your memory).
:winkc:
I suggest you read " The Good Heart" in which the Dalai Lama explored the New Testament gospels with Christians and others including Ajahn Amaro of the Theravada Thai Forest tradition.
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I think that they are compatible in that you can hold Christian beliefs while practicing Buddhism. There are many Buddhists who believe in God. In this, the Christian/Buddhist walks the path because they understand that the Four Noble Truths of suffering and its remedy can be applied regardless of whether or not there is a God (and more importantly that there is no requirement that you give up your beliefs).
With deeper understanding of the Buddhist teachings and meditation, these beliefs will in time be reflected upon, and if they prove to be incompatible with the wisdom gained by self-realization of reality (impermanence, dependent origination, dukkha, etc.), the mind will then decide whether to retain them, modify them, or let them go.
Buddhism is a conceptual representation of reality, and the methods that will allow us to see/know these truths for ourselves. It's not really a religion in the usual sense, so there's no conflict.
If Orthodox Christianity rejected the Old Testament, maybe you'd have a point. However, Genesis, Exodus, and other books of the OT provide some of the most central tennets of Christianity.
All you're doing is showing me that the New Testament and Jesus contradicts the Old Testament, and youre right, it does. Remember that Christianity claims that Jesus is Yahweh and therefore, all the war and genocide that Yahweh commands is attributed to Jesus because doctrine says they're the same.
Of course I'm sure Jesus would object to that notion and I don't blame him, but unfortunetaly thats what the Bible authors tried to paint him as.
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Unfortuneatley, I have to say no. I don't think Buddha would approve of prayer wheels and angels, but he also would say that he has no business in telling people what they ought to do either.
Last I checked, Buddhism doesn't have a book of Revelations glorifying the final judgement and the last battle between God and Satan where good triumphs evil once and for all.
That's another thing that contradicts Buddhism. We're not born evil and worthy of Hell and then must accept an external Savior to wash the evil away. Buddhism also would reject the notion that another man can die for your sins and take the punishment away from you and your own responsibilities.
Ad hominem red herring fallacy. You can't couter an argument by attacking the person or bringing up something off topic.