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Does metal music conflict with buddhism??
I come from a christain family, but i like metal music. Most of the music deals with the occult but I try not to listen to that stuff. my family wont let me anyway. I am a HUGE metalhead and I was wondering if this interfeared with buddhism at all. Because my family is Christian i feel like an outcast and they think I am strange because I like metal.
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It's really hard for us (former christians) to get this idea through our heads: Buddhism is absolutely nothing like Christianity in regards to rules, dogma, and strictures. The content of music has absolutely nothing to do with anything. There are really no "rules" at all in Buddhism - meaning there are no hard and fast, black and white, "do this or do that but not this" type of rules. Instead, Buddha gave us guidelines, known as the eightfold path. These are suggestions, saying "if you want to acheive the cessation of suffering in the cycle of birth and rebirth, you might want to try this"
Buddhism is not punitive, therefore there can be nothing that says "if you do this, you will be punished".. .punished with what? There is no judge, no one to answer to but yourself.
I see no reason why you are not allowed to take what you want from listening to Metal music.
It is only an opinion but Metal is a very pale mutation of all that is or was great about anti establishment Rock. It lacks depth and has a less than positve message than much of todays mainstream sounds. And it is totally predictable.
Interesting it's major audience is predominatly the white rural middle class kids.
As I said it's only an opinion but it's still Spinal Tap.
Of course music isn't against any Buddhist principles but the words may be!
I didn't know you were such a headbanger!
Now Motley Crue are gonna have to change their song.
Shout!
Shout!
Shout at the Judeo-Christian belief of a demon Deity! :rockon:
Just doesn't have the same feel...
-bf
It is only an opinion but Metal is a very pale mutation of all that is or was great about anti establishment Rock. It lacks depth and has a less than positve message than much of todays mainstream sounds. And it is totally predictable.
Interesting it's major audience is predominatly the white rural middle class kids.
As I said it's only an opinion but it's still Spinal Tap."
Um im not sure if u didnt know but im black.
I wouldn't base an opinion about metal based on the mainstream "screamo" metal bands that are popular today, such as slipknot and so forth. The actual intelligent metal seems to be concentrated in Europe, not America.
Music is merely sound that one finds pleasurable. What difference does it make whether it is "metal", or "pop", or "gospel", or "blue grass", etc. etc.? That is only a perception which is ultimately abandoned on the Buddha's path:
"At Savatthi. "Monks, any desire-passion with regard to perception (naming, labeling) of forms is a defilement of the mind. Any desire-passion with regard to perception of sounds... perception of aromas... perception of flavors... perception of tactile sensations... perception of ideas is a defilement of the mind. When, with regard to these six bases, the defilements of awareness are abandoned, then the mind is inclined to renunciation. The mind fostered by renunciation feels malleable for the direct knowing of those qualities worth realizing."
~ Sañña Sutta Samyutta Nikaya XXVII.6
The main fact is that it is an object of attachment by the ear faculty. Once the ear 'hears' these sounds (contact) the mind then has hearing-consciousness. Now the mind begins it's multi-tasking effort of division from this feeling. It divides the sound into pleasurable, neutral, or unpleasant. The recognition process searches through memory to compare it with a 'known' sound. From there perceptions further breaks it down into how you react to that sound (i.e. with aversion, happiness, equanimity, confusion, etc.) which is the forerunner of intention. Intention is followed by craving - craving for the sound due to pleasure, craving for not hearing the sound due to unpleasantness....
All in all this process that we call hearing is just that - a process. In the ultimate truth the music one finds pleasurable is merely sound (object) and the process of hearing (contact with the ear). Once this is seen with discriminating awareness it produces the insight with which to view the process as it is, not through our defilements.
"I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Savatthi in Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. There he addressed the monks: "Monks!"
"Yes, lord," the monks responded to him.
"Monks, I will teach you the Dhamma admirable in the beginning, admirable in the middle, admirable in the end; I will expound the holy life both in its particulars & in its essence, entirely complete, surpassingly pure -- in other words, the six sextets. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak."
"As you say, lord," the monks responded.
The Blessed One said: "The six internal media should be known. The six external media should be known. The six classes of consciousness should be known. The six classes of contact should be known. The six classes of feeling should be known. The six classes of craving should be known.
"'The six internal media should be known.' Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said? The eye-medium, the ear-medium, the nose-medium, the tongue-medium, the body-medium, the intellect-medium. 'The six internal media should be known.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said. This is the first sextet.
"'The six external media should be known.' Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said? The form-medium, the sound-medium, the aroma-medium, the flavor-medium, the tactile sensation-medium, the idea-medium. 'The six external media should be known.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said. This is the second sextet.
"'The six classes of consciousness should be known.' Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said? Dependent on the eye & forms there arises consciousness at the eye. Dependent on the ear & sounds there arises consciousness at the ear. Dependent on the nose & aromas there arises consciousness at the nose. Dependent on the tongue & flavors there arises consciousness at the tongue. Dependent on the body & tactile sensations there arises consciousness at the body. Dependent on the intellect & ideas there arises consciousness at the intellect. 'The six classes of consciousness should be known.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said. This is the third sextet.
"'The six classes of contact should be known.' Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said? Dependent on the eye & forms there arises consciousness at the eye. The meeting of the three is contact. Dependent on the ear & sounds there arises consciousness at the ear. The meeting of the three is contact. Dependent on the nose & aromas there arises consciousness at the nose. The meeting of the three is contact. Dependent on the tongue & flavors there arises consciousness at the tongue. The meeting of the three is contact. Dependent on the body & tactile sensations there arises consciousness at the body. The meeting of the three is contact. Dependent on the intellect & ideas there arises consciousness at the intellect. The meeting of the three is contact. 'The six classes of contact should be known.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said. This is the fourth sextet.
"'The six classes of feeling should be known.' Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said? Dependent on the eye & forms there arises consciousness at the eye. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition there is feeling. Dependent on the ear & sounds there arises consciousness at the ear. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition there is feeling. Dependent on the nose & aromas there arises consciousness at the nose. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition there is feeling. Dependent on the tongue & flavors there arises consciousness at the tongue. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition there is feeling. Dependent on the body & tactile sensations there arises consciousness at the body. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition there is feeling. Dependent on the intellect & ideas there arises consciousness at the intellect. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition there is feeling. 'The six classes of feeling should be known.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said. This is the fifth sextet.
"'The six classes of craving should be known.' Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said? Dependent on the eye & forms there arises consciousness at the eye. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition there is feeling. With feeling as a requisite condition there is craving. Dependent on the ear & sounds there arises consciousness at the ear. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition there is feeling. With feeling as a requisite condition there is craving. Dependent on the nose & aromas there arises consciousness at the nose. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition there is feeling. With feeling as a requisite condition there is craving. Dependent on the tongue & flavors there arises consciousness at the tongue. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition there is feeling. With feeling as a requisite condition there is craving. Dependent on the body & tactile sensations there arises consciousness at the body. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition there is feeling. With feeling as a requisite condition there is craving. Dependent on the intellect & ideas there arises consciousness at the intellect. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition there is feeling. With feeling as a requisite condition there is craving. 'The six classes of craving should be known.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said. This is the sixth sextet.
"If anyone were to say, 'The eye is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable. The arising & falling away of the eye are discerned. And when its arising & falling away are discerned, it would follow that 'My self arises & falls away.' That's why it wouldn't be tenable if anyone were to say, 'The eye is the self.' So the eye is not-self. If anyone were to say, 'Forms are the self,' that wouldn't be tenable... Thus the eye is not-self and forms are not-self. If anyone were to say, 'Consciousness at the eye is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable... Thus the eye is not-self, forms are not-self, consciousness at the eye is not-self. If anyone were to say, 'Contact at the eye is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable... Thus the eye is not-self, forms are not-self, consciousness at the eye is not-self, contact at the eye is not-self. If anyone were to say, 'Feeling is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable... Thus the eye is not-self, forms are not-self, consciousness at the eye is not-self, contact at the eye is not-self, feeling is not self. If anyone were to say, 'Craving is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable. The arising & falling away of craving are discerned. And when its arising & falling away are discerned, it would follow that 'My self arises & falls away.' That's why it wouldn't be tenable if anyone were to say, 'Craving is the self.' Thus the eye is not-self, forms are not-self, consciousness at the eye is not-self, contact at the eye is not-self, feeling is not self, craving is not-self.
"If anyone were to say, 'The ear is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable...
"If anyone were to say, 'The nose is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable...
"If anyone were to say, 'The tongue is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable...
"If anyone were to say, 'The body is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable...
"If anyone were to say, 'The intellect is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable. The arising & falling away of the intellect are discerned. And when its arising & falling away are discerned, it would follow that 'My self arises & falls away.' That's why it wouldn't be tenable if anyone were to say, 'The intellect is the self.' So the intellect is not-self. If anyone were to say, 'Ideas are the self,' that wouldn't be tenable... Thus the intellect is not-self and ideas are not-self. If anyone were to say, 'Consciousness at the intellect is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable... Thus the intellect is not-self, ideas are not-self, consciousness at the intellect is not-self. If anyone were to say, 'Contact at the intellect is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable... Thus the intellect is not-self, ideas are not-self, consciousness at the intellect is not-self, contact at the intellect is not-self. If anyone were to say, 'Feeling is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable... Thus the intellect is not-self, ideas are not-self, consciousness at the intellect is not-self, contact at the intellect is not-self, feeling is not self. If anyone were to say, 'Craving is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable. The arising & falling away of craving are discerned. And when its arising & falling away are discerned, it would follow that 'My self arises & falls away.' That's why it wouldn't be tenable if anyone were to say, 'Craving is the self.' Thus the intellect is not-self, ideas are not-self, consciousness at the intellect is not-self, contact at the intellect is not-self, feeling is not self, craving is not-self.
"This, monks, is the path of practice leading to self-identification. One assumes about the eye that 'This is me, this is my self, this is what I am.' One assumes about forms... One assumes about consciousness at the eye... One assumes about contact at the eye... One assumes about feeling... One assumes about craving that 'This is me, this is my self, this is what I am.'
"One assumes about the ear...
"One assumes about the nose...
"One assumes about the tongue...
"One assumes about the body...
"One assumes about the intellect that 'This is me, this is my self, this is what I am.' One assumes about ideas... One assumes about consciousness at the intellect... One assumes about contact at the intellect... One assumes about feeling... One assumes about craving that 'This is me, this is my self, this is what I am.'
"Now, this is the path of practice leading to the cessation of self-identification. One assumes about the eye that 'This is not me, this is not my self, this is not what I am.' One assumes about forms... One assumes about consciousness at the eye... One assumes about contact at the eye... One assumes about feeling... One assumes about craving that 'This is not me, this is not my self, this is not what I am.'
"One assumes about the ear...
"One assumes about the nose...
"One assumes about the tongue...
"One assumes about the body...
"One assumes about the intellect that 'This is not me, this is not my self, this is not what I am.' One assumes about ideas... One assumes about consciousness at the intellect... One assumes about contact at the intellect... One assumes about feeling... One assumes about craving that 'This is not me, this is not my self, this is not what I am.'
"Dependent on the eye & forms there arises consciousness at the eye. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition, there arises what is felt either as pleasure, pain, or neither pleasure nor pain. If, when touched by a feeling of pleasure, one relishes it, welcomes it, or remains fastened to it, then one's passion-obsession gets obsessed. If, when touched by a feeling of pain, one sorrows, grieves, & laments, beats one's breast, becomes distraught, then one's resistance-obsession gets obsessed. If, when touched by a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain, one does not discern, as it actually is present, the origination, passing away, allure, drawback, or escape from that feeling, then one's ignorance-obsession gets obsessed. That a person -- without abandoning passion-obsession with regard to a feeling of pleasure, without abolishing resistance-obsession with regard to a feeling of pain, without uprooting ignorance-obsession with regard to a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain, without abandoning ignorance and giving rise to clear knowing -- would put an end to suffering & stress in the here & now: such a thing isn't possible.
"Dependent on the ear & sounds...
"Dependent on the nose & aromas...
"Dependent on the tongue & flavors...
"Dependent on the body & tactile sensations...
"Dependent on the intellect & ideas there arises consciousness at the intellect. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition, there arises what is felt either as pleasure, pain, or neither pleasure nor pain. If, when touched by a feeling of pleasure, one relishes it, welcomes it, or remains fastened to it, then one's passion-obsession gets obsessed. If, when touched by a feeling of pain, one sorrows, grieves, & laments, beats one's breast, becomes distraught, then one's resistance-obsession gets obsessed. If, when touched by a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain, one does not discern, as it actually is present, the origination, passing away, allure, drawback, or escape from that feeling, then one's ignorance-obsession gets obsessed. That a person -- without abandoning passion-obsession with regard to a feeling of pleasure, without abolishing resistance-obsession with regard to a feeling of pain, without uprooting ignorance-obsession with regard to a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain, without abandoning ignorance and giving rise to clear knowing -- would put an end to suffering & stress in the here & now: such a thing isn't possible.
"Dependent on the eye & forms there arises consciousness at the eye. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition, there arises what is felt either as pleasure, pain, or neither pleasure nor pain. If, when touched by a feeling of pleasure, one does not relish it, welcome it, or remain fastened to it, then one's passion-obsession doesn't get obsessed. If, when touched by a feeling of pain, one does not sorrow, grieve, or lament, beat one's breast or become distraught, then one's resistance obsession doesn't get obsessed. If, when touched by a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain, one discerns, as it actually is present, the origination, passing away, allure, drawback, & escape from that feeling, then one's ignorance-obsession doesn't get obsessed. That a person -- through abandoning passion-obsession with regard to a feeling of pleasure, through abolishing resistance-obsession with regard to a feeling of pain, through uprooting ignorance-obsession with regard to a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain, through abandoning ignorance and giving rise to clear knowing -- would put an end to suffering & stress in the here & now: such a thing is possible.
"Dependent on the ear & sounds...
"Dependent on the nose & aromas...
"Dependent on the tongue & flavors...
"Dependent on the body & tactile sensations...
"Dependent on the intellect & ideas there arises consciousness at the intellect. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition, there arises what is felt either as pleasure, pain, or neither pleasure nor pain. If, when touched by a feeling of pleasure, one does not relish it, welcome it, or remain fastened to it, then one's passion-obsession doesn't get obsessed. If, when touched by a feeling of pain, one does not sorrow, grieve, or lament, beat one's breast or become distraught, then one's resistance obsession doesn't get obsessed. If, when touched by a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain, one discerns, as it actually is present, the origination, passing away, allure, drawback, & escape from that feeling, then one's ignorance-obsession doesn't get obsessed. That a person -- through abandoning passion-obsession with regard to a feeling of pleasure, through abolishing resistance-obsession with regard to a feeling of pain, through uprooting ignorance-obsession with regard to a feeling of neither pleasure nor pain, through abandoning ignorance and giving rise to clear knowing -- would put an end to suffering & stress in the here & now: such a thing is possible.
"Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with the eye, disenchanted with forms, disenchanted with consciousness at the eye, disenchanted with contact at the eye, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with craving.
"He grows disenchanted with the ear...
"He grows disenchanted with the nose...
"He grows disenchanted with the tongue...
"He grows disenchanted with the body...
"He grows disenchanted with the intellect, disenchanted with ideas, disenchanted with consciousness at the intellect, disenchanted with contact at the intellect, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with craving. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is fully released. With full release, there is the knowledge, 'Fully released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'"
That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the monks delighted at his words. And while this explanation was being given, the hearts of 60 monks, through no clinging (not being sustained), were fully released from fermentation/effluents.
~ Chachakka Sutta Majjhima Nikaya 148
Anatta (not-self) further shows us that there is "no one" that actually hears these sounds, but that it is merely a combination of aggregates* which is mistaken for such a "self".
*See the Nakulapita Sutta http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/samyutta/sn22-001.html
(P.s. Just for the record I love metal myself, from the progressive European to the mainstream "screamo"
Again its only an opinion but think metal, think Waynes World.
And if you are looking for enlightenment pick up a copy of Neil Youngs ( Not Indie) Down by the River.
Party on, Dude........
http://www.dharmapunx.com
that being said, perhapse I'll go throw on some amon amarth and slayer, after I'm done with Within Temptation
I'm always interested in new music. PM me, please!
-bf
did ya get a chance to check the link I sent you?
As an older metalhead, please send me the link also.
Now I haven't heard anything recently that interests me. Some of the nu-metal is good like Korn, or some of the Prog Metal/Rock such as Dream Theater or Evanesence is interesting but give me Priest and Maiden any day. Saw Priest on the Reunion tour. They didn't have to use walkers or wheelchairs but I did think I smelled a touch of Ben-Gay in the air. No Rob Halford jokes please. But they still put on a good show.
Heard this Swedish band called Dragonforce who played so fast it was hard to keep up with it. But if you all know of some new bands that are good, let me know.
By the way, what happened to Metallica? After the "Black album" they went downhill. "Master of Puppets" was a masterpiece. Friends of mine offered me "St. Anger" to get it off their hands as they thought it totally reeked.
I tried getting into Slayer, but couldn't get into it. The only "death metal" band I ever got into was Vengeance Rising in the early nineties. They were a Christian version. They took the nastiest parts of the Bible and put it to music. "Human Sacrifice" is a classic. If anyone gets it and needs the lyrics, I have the album practically memorized I've listened to it so much.
So are Buddhism and metal compatible? Sure, and turn it up to 11 if you can. By the way, I loved "Spinal Tap".
Nevermore is a great new band that you'd probably enjoy, or Strapping Young Lad.
Rather than PM'ing the link to people I'll just post it here. http://www.myspace.com/leukorrhea There are 4 songs on there and they are very much in the death metal vein.
And onto Metallica... well like most people who get famous, the money and fame went to their heads. In the videotape they put out called "Cliff Em All" they swore they would never do a video and or sell out. The have done numerous videos, "One" being the first and best. Lars became so greedy he has tried to break down many ways of people listening to music. I have no issue with napster and the like as it helps me check out a band or two's tracks before going out and buying the CD, which I always do if I like it. If I don't like it I don't waste my money on it. But back to the greedy, nu-metal Metallica of nowadays, not worth listening to after the "Black" album imo.
There have been many bands (alternative, metal, rock, whatever) whose lyrics and music have helped me through rough times.
Besides that, it's just fun! All attachments aside, we are all just looking for happiness in our existence. If metal helps, let it be. It works for me!!
wow, glad you liked it. I'll send ya a PM if you really want the CD, I'm psyched you liked it though. :rockon:
This was my thought from the beginning. Being in the band has helped me out more than anyone could know. There were many days when I'd get so pissed I wouldn't know what to do, than I'd go to practice for two hours and feel revived afterward and much happier than when I walked into the practice room. Playing show helped a ton too, especially seeing so many people getting into the music. I would literally cease to exist if I didn't have music in my life. I like alot of other stuff besides metal but the savage sound calms me quite a bit.:rocker:
RAMMSTEIN ROCKS!
here's some links of their videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfT1A5Caq84
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxaFANthouM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3WayEBr9-M
Enjoy
Opeth is an accquired taste I think. I have "Blacwater Park" and one other, but don't listen to them much.
Other bands I like are Hatebreed, Amon Amarth, Arch Enemy, Into Eternity, Dark Tranquility, Throwdown, Halford (Rob's side band), Kreator (whom I never heard unti this decade), and 3 Inches of Blood to start. I must say that I listen to all kinds of music and it really is based on my mood. I've actually listened almost nothing for a month. It's time to get back to it.
Dont be ridiculous.
I actually digitally produce metal music and techno and shiz like that..
the thing is, if it's some stupid shit like " ohh f*** ur mo***** and ra** ur sister and slaughter donkeys of jesus ChRIST fa*G**!!!
RAAAAHHHH!!!" :mad::mad::mad:
then im my opinion thats just stupid shit..
If however it is in good taste , saying a message of like... something "LEGIT"
then i believe its all good!!
even if it's a lot of swearing, if the message is honest, not a fkin lame emo queer joke....then its all good..
so in conclusion it does not in my opinion conflict with buddhism, if it doesn't cause suffering, or go against the precepts wahtever, its all good, as long as u dont over do attachment or desire to listen to it..a