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Buddha taught rebirth -- and he meant it!
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Honestly this whole Thread should be moved to the Experienced forum if we aren't to reference scripture here, otherwise it's nothing more than people shouting unsupported opinions with a foot stomp at the end to make it "official."
Sorry but how does the quote...
It's a gain for you, monks, a great gain, that you've gained the opportunity to live the holy life. I have seen a hell named 'Contacts Sixfold Base.' Whatever form one sees there with the eye is undesirable, never desirable; displeasing, never pleasing; disagreeable, never agreeable. Whatever sound one hears there with the ear... Whatever aroma one smells there with the nose... Whatever flavor one tastes there with the tongue... Whatever tactile sensation one touches there with the body... Whatever idea one cognizes there with the intellect is undesirable, never desirable; displeasing, never pleasing; disagreeable, never agreeable.
...answer how the word loka can be translated as state? If that was what you intended?
And not that I doubt you or anything but could you refer me to that sutta so I can read all of it please?
/Victor
I agree.
I provided the name of the sutta for your reference (just type it into Google..), but here you go: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn35/sn35.135.than.html
You are correct. I missunderstood your wording "a factor of the path" to mean "generally not in line with buddhism". But we are not really discussing weather it is "a factor of the path".
As I have pointed out to you before:
Mundane Right View is still Right View according to the Buddha and thus that quote shows the Buddha did teach rebirth and therefore believed it.
/Victor
Yes Google is good but getting the sutta the quoter has read themselves saves you from missunderstandings since translations may vary.
Thanks.
/Victor
DDhatu chose that particular word. The meaning of loka is inferred by the context--in this case, "such as in the case of." He is speaking metaphorically. If he is not speaking of a mental state here could you explain what else he might be metaphorically speaking of?
Well, we've spoken on this as well. In my opinion it is Right View not because it's as the world truly is, but because it's a skillful and beneficial way of viewing the world for those not practicing the Buddha's path. How could something factual, something describing things as they truly are, be a hindrance to the path that must be eliminated? To me that would be like saying "knowing there is gravity is a hindrance."
The suttas state what they state. Anyone interested can read MN1117 for themselves to answer your question.
:buck:
Dude you are freaking me right the hell out. :eek2:
As the sutta explains, it is a state of mind.
:smilec:
Or try this link for another Loka Sutta.
Or more here:
:smilec:
:smilec:
I trust this phrase is not found in any teachings about rebirth however I invite a willing contributor to correct my expectation here. The term puthujjano means run-of-the-mill person, unenlightened person.
Instead, the rebirth teachings, specifically for the benefit of puthujjano, have the stock phrase:
It was suggested by more than one member, and on perusing it, it seems the best place for it.
WOULD ALL CURRENT AND EXPERIENCED MEMBERS PLEASE NOTE:
Questions, comments and subjects by existing and current members, with some prolonged experience of Buddhism, should always be placed in this forum.
The forum for beginners is precisely that:
A forum where new members with little experience should post new questions posed to existing members, in order to clarify points that we as experienced and more established members have already tackled and developed a view on.
The beginners forum is for those who have not yet studied Buddhism in depth.
Answers to new members and those new to Buddhism seeking clarification, should address the question with as little complex elaboration as possible, but tempered obviously to what the new OP is asking.
In short - the beginner's forum is not one to show how much you know, how well versed you are in the suttas, or how cleverly you tackle debate.
it's there for their benefit.
Not yours.
Would all established and experienced members refrain from using the New Buddhist beginners forum, for questions and threads that frankly don't belong there, and as a soapbox for broadcasting their obvious brilliance, cleverness and quality of rhetoric.
I trust that is adequately clear.
2. Buddha never denied rebirth in the suttas. If you think he did, source it.
3. Rebirth is completely consistent with all of Buddha's teachings. We are stuck in a cycle of samsaric rebirth and suffering due to our craving born of ignorance.
3a) Buddha taught nothing that is inconsistent with rebirth. Least of all emptiness, which DD somehow thinks is a separate teaching? Emptiness is a teaching of impermanence & not-self - the essence of rebirth for Buddha.
I'll say again, you can think what you like about rebirth and find a way to still practice Buddhism. I am a doubter myself. But please don't kid yourself about what Buddha taught.
There are quite a lot of references in the suttas to beings re-appearing in other realms according their actions. Of course we are dependent on the translations that are available to us, and I realise it's possible to interpret things in different ways.
And then there are all sorts of subsidiary questions like "Why did the Buddha teach rebirth?" and "What relevance does this teaching have to our practice?" and "Why do we get so attached to views on this issue?";)
P
I think this could be considered to be a final post from the OP.
And I think this is an apposite note upon which to close the thread.
Thanks to all who gave input.