Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Okay... so I'm a Buddhist loser...
buddhafoot
Veteran
I picked up my son today - for our weekend together - and on the way home stopped by the store to get groceries for over the weekend.
We walk the cart to the car and unload everything - and my boy wants to take the shopping cart and put it in this area in the parking lot where patrons can place their carts instead of walking them back into the store or just leaving them willy-nilly in the parking lot.
So, I follow my son a little way and I'm standing behind a car - which starts up. So, I back up a little bit so I can see the driver.
She is giving me a very dirty look. So, since my son is walking towards me so we can get back to our car AND I don't want her to back over him - I hold up my index finger, smile and mouth "Please?" - as in, "can you give me one minute while my kid gets away from the back of the car?"
Doesn't phase her - she guns it and the car lurches back towards me and my son - who I grab by the sleave of his jacket and pull him well out of the way. She just gunned the gas enough to make the car jump backwards before hitting the breaks again. My son is freaking - he doesn't know what's going on and this "lady" starts issuing a torrent of profanity at me WITH MY KID STANDING THERE!?!?!
I told my son to go to the car while I just stood there and stared at her. She kept cussing and cussing at me until she had backed up and had the open passenger window right next to me.
She looked like an ugly, aging, rabid Chihuahua - only worse - and she is giving me the business.
Finally, I couldn't take it anymore - I bent down so I could see straight into the window and said, "You are a rude bitch." Not wild - not freaking out and arguing with her - just very calmly.
Now, I know that even though I can swear at someone calmly doesn't mean it's okay. But I was just shocked! So, after her saying that my son and I were both phucking retarded and that our mothers were dogs and that our canine mothers raised us out of wedlock - she sped off still issuing a stream of profanity.
I have to learn how to deal with these situations better. I think in the past - I would have looked like another rabid Chihuahua going at it with her - so I'm trying to deal with things better - but I'm sure calling her a bitch didn't de-escalate the situation any...
-bf
We walk the cart to the car and unload everything - and my boy wants to take the shopping cart and put it in this area in the parking lot where patrons can place their carts instead of walking them back into the store or just leaving them willy-nilly in the parking lot.
So, I follow my son a little way and I'm standing behind a car - which starts up. So, I back up a little bit so I can see the driver.
She is giving me a very dirty look. So, since my son is walking towards me so we can get back to our car AND I don't want her to back over him - I hold up my index finger, smile and mouth "Please?" - as in, "can you give me one minute while my kid gets away from the back of the car?"
Doesn't phase her - she guns it and the car lurches back towards me and my son - who I grab by the sleave of his jacket and pull him well out of the way. She just gunned the gas enough to make the car jump backwards before hitting the breaks again. My son is freaking - he doesn't know what's going on and this "lady" starts issuing a torrent of profanity at me WITH MY KID STANDING THERE!?!?!
I told my son to go to the car while I just stood there and stared at her. She kept cussing and cussing at me until she had backed up and had the open passenger window right next to me.
She looked like an ugly, aging, rabid Chihuahua - only worse - and she is giving me the business.
Finally, I couldn't take it anymore - I bent down so I could see straight into the window and said, "You are a rude bitch." Not wild - not freaking out and arguing with her - just very calmly.
Now, I know that even though I can swear at someone calmly doesn't mean it's okay. But I was just shocked! So, after her saying that my son and I were both phucking retarded and that our mothers were dogs and that our canine mothers raised us out of wedlock - she sped off still issuing a stream of profanity.
I have to learn how to deal with these situations better. I think in the past - I would have looked like another rabid Chihuahua going at it with her - so I'm trying to deal with things better - but I'm sure calling her a bitch didn't de-escalate the situation any...
-bf
0
Comments
Sounds like you handled it better than most.
I think you showed more patience than I could have done given the circumstances. I am getting better at getting a handle on my temper since I have been practicing Buddhism, though. I am a work in progress.
Adiana
I think you are doing just fine. If you would have reciprocated her "rabid Chihuahua " impression in the past, but instead calmly pointed out she was a rude bitch this time - perhaps in the future you will be able to avoid even that.
Jason
I had a simular situation at the gorcery store too. My mom who has problems walking due to arthritis Takes a while to get in and out of my car. The lady parked next to us was being very impatient while I was trying to help her into my car. She proceeded to tell my mom that if she couldn't move any faster that maybe she needed to stay home. To which I very politely said, " Just wait till you get there." She got my meaning.
That is pretty cold.
I'm glad you pointed out that we all get there some day...
-bf
No!
I mean it was cold of her to say that to your mother.
I didn't mean anything you said was cold.
Sorry for not making myself clear.
-bf
Your poor child. There is nothing scarier for children then to see adults out of control.
I'm glad you didn't engage too much in the argument - that is a sign of your Dharma practice.
Here's something that always helps me in similar situations. It comes from the idea that it is all fine and good to be serene and peaceful, full of coompassion, when you're sat on a hillside or living an equally monastic style life. The true tests of your practice come in the forms of confrontation. For this you should love those that seek to drag you deeper into samsara, for two reasons:
The first being that they are actually testing your practice, strengthening the Dharma, deepening your awareness of reality.
The second being that the sentient being that is abusing you is doing so out of fear. What else can you do to a fearful person but love them? Nothing else will ever help them. The "I' and "her" is but an illusion how can you, living the reality of life, do anything but love them? In Zen this is 'parental mind' and it is the cornerstone of the Bodhisattva vow:
" Beings are numberless. I vow to save them.
Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them.
Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them.
Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it. "
In which case even Ugly Chihuahuas deserve to be liberated.
_/\_
Dave
You gave me one thing to think about that I will be able to use quite a bit...
Those that test my patience are actually allowing me to see how far I've come. I think that's the gist of it.
-bf
Just not the ones behind the wheel of car with a ciagarette stuck in their yap.
-bf
I think the reason people get to me is because I'm very small, fragile delicate and defenceless,
You controlled yourself far better than I would have. Years ago I had a situation like that except this time i was driving a large work truck (tandem axle) and making a right hand turn which of course requires me swing wide as I was lining myself up to go down this narrow alley this guy comes to a squealing stop in front of the truck and begans a tirade referring to me as an a-hole amoung other names because he thought I cut him off as I was turning the corner.
Back then before I discovered the calming effects of buddhism I flew out of the truck in a rage,throw off my jacket and proceed forward fists held high just wanting to throttle him
He decides to stay in the car and drive away and thankfully nothing more happened.
You clearly handled the situation better than I handled that one.
Tracy,
I forgot to mention (and I can't remember the thread now) that I was appreciative of the link you gave regarding Nichiren Buddhism. So... thanks! I'm going to do some research.
-bf
Are you saying that your chanting practice has turned you into someone who "would have cussed her with equal fervor, recited her pedigree with profound passion, and a litany of how her lack of respect for human life would be returned ten fold"?
I just wanted to say that I am a Nichiren Buddhist as well. My chanting has caused me to be able to have better ability to control my temper but I have to admit I am a work in progress! LOL! I find that I am better able to deal with people who choose to be rude the longer I practice Nichiren Buddhism. I try to not respond with rudeness in return. Most of the time I am successful but there have been occasions when my temper was really tested and I lost it. :banghead: That is why I consider myself a work in progress! At least, this is what works for me. I figure the longer I practice, the better I will get at controlling my anger and/or temper.
Adiana:type: :wavey: :mullet:
Hi! I am also a Nichiren Buddhist. However, I am not a docile, mousy little thing, never have been, and I am not considered so even now as a Nichiren Buddhist. LOL! I find that chanting enables me to get a better handle on my terrible temper and my anger the longer I practice it. I find that I am better able to respond in an assertive manner without being rude. I am not perfect and I know that I won't be either. That's why I consider myself a work in progress! LOL! All I know is that the longer I practice Nichiren Buddhism, the better I am getting at controlling my anger. Of course, this is what works for me. How long have you been practicing? I have been practicing since March of 2005.
Adiana:wavey: :mullet:
While I believe it is a very nice gesture to attempt to take the burden of another person's negative karma onto yourself and try changing it into positive karma in some way, I feel that it is an incorrect view of karma as compared to what the Buddha himself taught about this subject.
The first reason I say this is that the Buddha teaches us that we are the heirs of our own karma and not that of anyone elses. This teaching is included in the five daily reflections a person should refelct on often:
"There are these five facts that one should reflect on often, whether one is a woman or a man, lay or ordained. Which five? ‘I am subject to aging, have not gone beyond aging.’ This is the first fact that one should reflect on often, whether one is a woman or a man, lay or ordained. ‘I am subject to illness, have not gone beyond illness.’ … ‘I am subject to death, have not gone beyond death.’ ... ‘I will grow different, separate from all that is dear and appealing to me.’ ... ‘I am the owner of my actions (kamma), heir to my actions, born of my actions, related through my actions, and have my actions as my arbitrator. Whatever I do, for good or for evil, to that will I fall heir.’ This is the fifth fact that one should reflect on often, whether one is a woman or a man, lay or ordained."
~ Anguttara Nikaya V-57 (Upajjhatthana Sutta)
Another reason I say this is that yelling at another person will not necessarily remove their negative karma. Even if you do the yelling and relieve them of that particular action, they will still hold thoughts of anger and ill-will towards you because of your yelling. (I mean when someone yells at me I don't think happy thoughts, I think very negative thoughts - thoughts involving me mentally punching someone.
"Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox."
~ Dp I v.1 translated by Acharya Buddharakkhita
The Buddha teaches that all intentional actions, whether thoughts, speech or bodily actions, however expressed, are karma and lead the doer of them to experience a result sooner or later. This idea can be found it various suttas, so I will refrain from posting them all here.
So, while I feel that you are attempting to help another person out of compassion, I also feel that you may be doing them harm as well. The Buddha teaches that not only should we refrain from negative actions and thoughts, but we should also refrain from negative speech:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."
~ SN XLV.8
"Monks, a statement endowed with five factors is well-spoken, not ill-spoken. It is blameless & unfaulted by knowledgeable people. Which five?
"It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will."
~ AN V.198
This does not mean, of course, that you should allow yourself to become another person's door-mat, but it does mean that you should do your best to refrain from negative actions of any sort. This will protect both you and those around you. Of course being human, we all make mistakes. Nobody is expected to be perfect and always do the right things at the right time. Hell, I get angry just as much as the next person, but while I am a serious student of the Buddha's teachings I try to give my best effort in living my life according to how he advises is the most skillful. That is all that I am trying to offer here.
Please do not take offense at this post because I am not attempting to criticise you, nor am I suggesting that you change in anyway, however, I do enjoy sharing my practice and knowledge of Buddhism with others. If I have a sense that perhaps someone does not correctly understand a certain aspect of the Dhamma, and I feel that I have a good sense of what was taught, I like to offer what I know incase that person finds it helpful in some way.
That being said, I of course do not always get things correct myself, and I would like to note that I may be wrong in my understanding as well. I do not profess myself as being an "expert" in any way, shape, or form. All I humbly ask is that you take my advice if it appears skillful and disregard it if it does not.
Best wishes,
Jason
As Nichiren Buddhists, do you also study and practise the Noble Eightfold Path? I am ignorant (so far) about your style of Buddhist practice.
I would have killed her. When it comes to my kids I spare no one.
Hey Dude,
Long time no see. You don't even IM me anymore.
I like that... FOOT
Don't be a stranger... or I'll kick yer butt!
-bf
Here it is.:grr:
Thank you for clarifying that for me, Comic, I feel so much more at peace, now - !!
I know that previously when I've been afraid while driving, I've reacted with a lot of irrational anger, and I've observed the trend in others. Once, while driving in the winter, I hit a patch of black ice and hit the front end of another car. (Fortunately, no one was hurt and damage was minimal.) The woman inside leapt out and started screaming at me while I sat there balling like a baby and stumbling over myself to apologize (it was the first time I had ever wrecked, and the first winter I had ever driven a car.) Later, my mother explained to me that the woman whose car I'd hit was probably very scared, and that this was why she was so hard on me.
What I am wondering is if perhaps this woman was being inattentive and did not see you and your child until it was too late, thus taking out her fears on you when she nearly hit you? Or was it very obviously deliberate? Just another way to think of the situation. It, of course, does not in any way excuse how she treated you!
Regardless, I think you handled the situation with astounding calm, and I can't say I would've been able to replicate it. I'm just glad you and your child are both ok and no one was hurt!
Most people react violently because of fear. She was probably just trying to cover up for her own stupidity????
Just remeber, if you sink to their level then they've won......:rocker:
This of course is quite rare. But somehow it worked....worked much better than just ignoring them. Now, when in similar situations with angry strangers, I usually just wave or say good afternoon.
Anyway, I think your handling of the situation was quite good. I wouldn't know quite how to react in such a situation.
A few years ago (11 actually) my wife gave birth three months beforehand to our daughter Jessica. Jessica was being loaded into the car where it was parked in a position that caused the door to rest-I'll say it again REST against another woman's car-door.
Absolutely NO MARKING OR DAMAGE WAS DONE.
I don't know if any of you get the idea of Post natal depression, but its horrible.
Anyway this ..........I won't say, came out swearing like a trooper about how my stupid F****** wife had F*****-up her precious 20-year-old car and how she was going to sue etc. etc and so-on .
The irate woman was in the process of checking the oil, (I know I Know-what the hell was she doing that for when the car was a veritable palace on wheeels?) , however she started to push the dip-stick into the facial area of my Mrs.
Well after calmly telling her to remove the said object from her personal space and the woman still babbling on about, wrecking her vehicle, f******-up the paintwork etc. my wife calmly told me to drive the f*****G car and get out of here before she explodes....well I stumbled a etc. and procrastinated until the woman leaned over the car door while my wife was half inside where she called my wife a FAT BITCH-(PLEASE can I ask all of you to watch out with the FAT word around a PND woman-You may be killed)
anyway, that was it! me 5'3" wife lifted this 6' woman off the floor and dragged her sorry ass over my car door and tapped her (very roughly) about her face. At this point she stated that she was a Police Officer and we were F*****d! (NO most Police in Australia don't use that sort of language-We think she was BullS******g us)
We said, send us the charge sheet in the mail-we'll gladly see her in court-and that the judge would be delighted-im sure, to hear what exactly provoked her tirade. We then drove off. My wife is not happy with herself or proud of what happened all those years ago, but I don't think that being a buddhist instantly makes you a loser/walkover/or wimp.
You don't need to take sh** from just anybody.
love,
Do realize what effect your reaction probably had on your son? Your son witnessed a freaked out woman completely lose control. She became violently abusive in her language toward you and your son. She went so far as to almost cause bodily harm (or worse) to both him and yourself. And you didn't go CRAZY? You didn't FREAK OUT on her? You calmly leaned in and spoke your piece. Don't you know what you did? You taught your son THE most important lesson in the world. How to handle bullies. And you taught him in THE most important way. Not through meaningless words, but through your behavior, which is the only way children really learn. Man, you're a hero. And you're not sure because it wasn't perfect? Because you swore at her? Well, when any human being in that same situation handles it any better than you did, alert the media. Because THAT would be a front page story. All the trauma from that situation will be forgotten. But the way you handled yourself will never be forgotten by your son. I congratulate you from the bottom of my heart. You are an exemplary father and THE coolest of human beings. :bowdown:
With the utmost respect,
Brigid
P.S. And you've got a wicked sense of humour. But I'd appreciate it if you'd stop making me pee my pants.
Personally, I would have crouched down beside him and said "Son, you see that? That's called a rogue elephant! Like on the discovery channel!"
BTW, wat duz LOL mean?
Little Old Lady?
LotsaLuck?
LotsaLove?
Lick on Lollipop?
Leave out Lovers?
Lovers on Leave?
Libel or Lawyer? Somebody? Anybody?
ROFL = Rolling on the Floor Laughing
LMAO = Laughing my Ass Off
PMSL = Pee myself laughing
PMPL = Pee my pants laughing
Sutras I can't do, silliness a speciality!
Brigid,
Thanks for the kind post. I do have to say that I am not an exemplary father - sometimes I feel quite like a failure as a father and I have an ex who has promised me I will be nothing more than a "McDonald's Dad". So, by the state and an ex, I feel like I've been reduced to nothing more than a "time allotment" and a wallet by the courts and my ex.
As for the "excitement" of the situation - trying to teach my son that it's okay to be upset, but not okay to lash out verbally or physically is something I really try to work on. He's currently living with a person who has (and has had) a very difficult time controling themself verbally and physically. I have some very ugly memories to prove it.
He, now, is also demonstrating an inability to control his anger. He doesn't lash out - but he gets very angry and very hurt - very easily. So, I guess my main goal is to try to help him control his anger - which, in this circumstance, I thought I might not have done a very good job at.
But there is always time for more work and more caring. The only thing I can think of at the moment is lots of love, attention and open lines of communication.
As for making you pee your pants - I'm actually glad to have obliged
-bf
No - you called my lady bits an alligator. Oh OK then - you're a cool father.
Buddhafoot,
Things have to change regarding this issue, and now. This is not the kind of thing that can wait. A father's role in the life of his child cannot be allowed to be minimized legally or culturally. It's the kind of thing that will and does have immediate and catastrophic ramifications on society as a whole. The assumption that one gender is more suited to child rearing than another is a dangerous and ridiculous fallacy.
I can't understand you're pain, BF, because I'm not a parent nor a man. I can only imagine the incredible frustration and rage at being pitted against a social and legal system that has based it's most important understanding of the family on a myth. I haven't done my share of protest in this area, I've only signed petitions. But I give you my word that I will educate myself further, write letters, support campaigns, bring this issue to the attention of others and do whatever else I can to support you and the millions of fathers in North America who have been pushed to the side when their presence, guidance and love are needed most.
Respectfully,
Brigid
Dealing with any strong emotion, anger, jealousy, lust, fear, are all difficult. Perhaps before trying to help your son control his anger you could help him (and, thereby help yourself) to recognize and accepting that we all get angry. For me, I know that the hardest step is to first of all recognize what it is that's going on inside me. When I get angry--which isn't very often--I'm like an elephant on a stampede: nothing can or should get in my way. Recognizing what's going on just before--that is--knowing myself and how I react to things is the first step.
Have you encouraged your son to find a positive way to express his anger? Music? Skateboarding? Art? For me, I have to affirm my feeling. That's how I start to tame it.
Once I recognize what's going on, like getting angry, then I express it in some way, the anger subsides pretty quickly. There's something about affirming the emotion that dispells it for me.
This is a tough problem. Also: be sure to talk with your son. Talk to him about your anger. Be open about your experience and how you deal with it in general, as well as in the situation you described here.
You're a good father. What says so to me is that you're thinking about this at all. You're worried about the effects of unmitigated anger on your son. That's admirable!
Peace.