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Honestly - this is only one little area of things that are wrong. And, despite everything that is going on - I still have a wonderful relationship with my son. But, your concern is greatly appreciated.
There are so many MORE things that need to be addressed and taken care of besides my whining.
It's too bad all "incorrect" things couldn't be taken care of at once. Like with the genie thing
questZENer,
I agree with you.
I think anger is normal and healthy. To not become angry is not to be human. To bottle up emotions that we have and pretend like they are not there, IMHO, is very bad indeed. It's how we handle these emotions.
I did tell him what I said to the person involved in this incident. I don't hide things from him and I'd rather have him see how I deal with anger than pretend that I'm some sort of a being different from him - because I'm emotionless or something.
I think children learn from example. If they see abusiveness in various situations - that is how they tend to respond to like situtations as they get older. They see a parent lie or cheat - it becomes so much easier for them as they grow up.
As she was standing to one side, a devata recited this verse to the Blessed One:
Having killed what
do you sleep in ease?
Having killed what
do you not grieve?
Of the slaying
of what one thing
does Gotama approve?
[The Buddha:]
Having killed anger
you sleep in ease.
Having killed anger
you do not grieve.
The noble ones praise
the slaying of anger
— with its honeyed crest
& poison root —
for having killed it
you do not grieve.
I never did state that the removal of anger would be a person's utmost goal.
But until that time, pretending anger is not there when it is is delusion. When we have anger, should we not recognize it for what it is - and then let it moved past us? What does one do with anger until they've found they can remove it?
That is where we have to be extra careful. The line between simply recognizing anger and acting very unskillfully because of it is a very fine one indeed. One should not bottle it up, but one should not simply let it arise, have it's way with you, and then regret it later either. Alas, the Path is not as pretty as it sometimes seems. It can more often than not be rough, uneven, and dangerous without the proper guides.
What to do when anger arises? How about:
Whence is there anger
in one without anger
tamed, calmed, living in tune,
released through right gnosis,
Such?
You make things worse
when you flare up
at someone who's angry.
Whoever doesn't flare up
at someone who's angry
wins a battle
hard to win.
You live for the good of both
— your own, the other's —
when, knowing the other's provoked,
you mindfully grow calm.
When you work the cure of both
— your own, the other's —
those who think you a fool
know nothing of Dhamma.
If anger arises,
reflect on the saw simile. 1
If craving for savor,
remember the son's-flesh simile. 2
If your mind runs loose
after sensual pleasures
& states of becoming,
quickly restrain it with mindfulness
as you would a bad ox
eating grain. 3
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited February 2006
Tulku Thondup wrote a book titled 'The Healing Power of the Mind'.
In it he describes how Anger is an emotion, but the most damaging and hurtful of all of them.
he likens it to seizing a burning coal to throw at our 'enemy' ... But of course, the first person, who is burned the worst, is us.....We might even pitch it badly, and miss altogether, blinded as we are by the pain....
So we recognise Anger as a brazier within us. And we should channel and transform it to merely warm us, not to burn us.
I get angry. We all get angry. Different things affect different people; But the moment it arises, extend your hands...stretch them out infront of you and allow the warmth to nourish you....
"You make things worse
when you flare up
at someone who's angry.
Whoever doesn't flare up
at someone who's angry
wins a battle
hard to win.
You live for the good of both
— your own, the other's —
when, knowing the other's provoked,
you mindfully grow calm.
When you work the cure of both
— your own, the other's —
those who think you a fool
know nothing of Dhamma.
- Thag VI.12"
This is so helpful. I remember reading something Thubten Chodren wrote about treating anger, your own and that of others, with compassion and I'm starting to see how compassion can and does kill anger.
Thanks, Jason.
"Honestly - this is only one little area of things that are wrong. And, despite everything that is going on - I still have a wonderful relationship with my son. But, your concern is greatly appreciated.
There are so many MORE things that need to be addressed and taken care of besides my whining."
Buddhafoot,
Your "whining" is really not the only reason why I think this issue needs redress, don't worry! LOL! I see it as a serious, fundamental problem in society and I also have two close friends who are going through it right now. Their experiences are appalling.
"You make things worse
when you flare up
at someone who's angry.
Whoever doesn't flare up
at someone who's angry
wins a battle
hard to win.
You live for the good of both
— your own, the other's —
when, knowing the other's provoked,
you mindfully grow calm.
When you work the cure of both
— your own, the other's —
those who think you a fool
know nothing of Dhamma.
- Thag VI.12"
This is so helpful. I remember reading something Thubten Chodren wrote about treating anger, your own and that of others, with compassion and I'm starting to see how compassion can and does kill anger.
...................................
Brigid
Having acquired the habit of anger from my father (and he from his), it has taken me many years to realise that my attempts to "kill anger" were futile and unskilled. My Buddhist and Sufi teachers came along just as I was beginning the move from psychotherapist to pilgrim. They showed me the inconsistency of my attitude: I would encourage "good" emotions whilst trying to eliminate the "bad" ones. Papa Freud said that he was not in the business of making sad people happy but of transforming neurotic tragedy into everyday unhappiness. Rilke speaks about embracing our "dark angels" because, if we repel them they come back as devils.
In my relationships, too, I began to notice how I would try to avoid anger and sadness, not just in me but in my partner, too. I would encourage the happy feelings. The result was that, time after time, anger and sadness would reappear more and more often. Anger acted out as resentment and irritability, sadness as moping and sulks.
It was, perhaps, in learning to practice tonglen that I began to notice a change, although I wonder if it was also because other practice had prepared me for it. It is not that anger, sadness, happiness or fear no longer arise. They do, because they are the products of mind-meets-body. What is fascinating is that they are no longer "bad" or "good". They simply are. They are not in charge of my actions, nor am "I" in charge of them.
It is as if I had been 'colour-blind'. Being unable to distinguish red from green caused many an accident of the railways until Dalton identified the condition and made tests to uncover it. It is, of course, a condition that is literally invisible to the sufferer unless they are compelled, by incident or test, to accept it. As with colours, so we may be blind to the distinctions and variations of the ways emotions arise.
Anger and fear are not our enemies. They have survival value and they energise the system. Sometimes, they release too much energy, particularly when the system is under pressure or there has been no earlier release. Additionally, the energies can go 'stale' and become malignant rather than useful.
All this opened for me like a water-lily: petal after petal. I used to want to suppress anger, fear and sadness but they will arise so they came in disguise, like the daughters of Mara. Once they are helped out of their disguises, they can take their rightful place among the strengths we need in order to walk the Middle Way.
In terms of the Mara myth, I see it like this: when I had stripped off the terrifying or the attractive, what I found underneath are my own offspring. I brought them to birth. They exist because of me. Mara and I are one and the same. How did the goose get into the bottle? Which came first, chicken or egg? And, just as I make no distinction of love between all my children, I can only prefer one feeling over another, repel one in favour of another by hallucinating.
I offer these thoughts because, just now, emotion is high in me and 'sitting with it' as I go about daily life has become a source of joy.
Well, there is no loser in Buddhism if you dont deny the Light. Adhere to the teaching of the Avatamsaka Sutra and study Paul first chapter. My pastor told me there are demons in Buddhism as well as in Christianity. He said if they dont talk about the Divine Light in them sermonts then they have no ideas what their own religions are.
I guess I have no idea what my religion is, which is just as well. Even Christ had no religion. That was something men came up with.
-bf
Oh dear - do you mean there is something WRONG with not knowing what one's religion is? Oh blast - can I come and stand in your corner BF because I don't wear much of a label either .... used to have a couple but they're tatty and unreadable now.
How yall doing, what I meant to say was that if you practice religion and you dont get a sense of unconditioned happiness, then you might not doing it correctly. Many folks that I have met down in that old Valley Creek meditation center are very nice. We chat alot and we talk about our experience during our practice, however I dont think they are doing it right. I think they meditate to escape their problems but their problems come back and they get angry easy after they leave the meditation center. I guess that they have not found the Light that the Gospel of Thomas or the Avatamsaka Sutra mentioned. And pardon me because this is only my opinion and I think everyone do have one on his/her rear end as they said in this dirty down old Kentucky town, heheheheh.
I thought I'd bring this old topic back up, as something happened to me this morning that made me remember it. I had my patience tested to the limit this morning, while on my way to work. I have to get up at stupid o'clock in the morning (I don't do mornings, you can tell, huh? :crazy: ) so I enjoy a quiet snooze on the night-bus on my way in. About half-way into the journey, and a couple of very loud guys get on, shouting at each other, and generally being inconsiderate. The looks on the faces of my fellow commuters spoke volumes. This continued, as one of them turned on an MP3 phone to listen to some music, which both then started to sing along to. Appeals to them to turn it down, use earphones or turn it off fell on deaf ears, and they were becoming more unruly by the minute. I tried one last time to appeal to them for some consideration, and was met with the volume being turned UP.
By now, despite my best efforts, my blood was close to boiling point, but I refused to become aggressive or nasty. In my pocket, I carry a personal attack alarm, which emits a loud, shrill, shrieking noise to deter any would-be attacker, so I decided to get this out, and pulled the pin. Both immediately covered their ears, and shouted at me to turn it off. I calmly told them "Tell you what, I'll do you a deal. You turn yours off, and I'll turn mine off, OK?" They were grumpy, but peace ensued.
I'm still not happy that I allowed myself to become angry like this, but on the other hand, I'm glad that I didn't lose my temper completely as I would have done in the past- and I'm also grateful that things didn't get ugly and result in my face being rearranged. On the plus side, they have taught me a valuable lesson in controlling my temper; since I dislocated my shoulder three years ago, any time I become angry or heated to the point that my pulse rate goes up, I feel extreme pain in my shoulder due to the poor circulation there since it healed- I was able to suppress my emotions to the point where the pain stayed within tolerable levels....
Great story, Padawan!! Love it! I think your solution was a stroke of genius.
And I know what you mean about your old injury giving you pain when you get angry. I can get into some serious trouble if I don't deal with my emotions properly. It's incredible how much physical pain can come about when the blood is racing and the chemicals are being released while in a state of anger, isn't it? When it first happened to me I didn't realize it was because of my anger but I figured it out pretty quickly and it never ceases to amaze me. It's such a clear illustration of the physiological effects of anger. And it gets much worse for me if I'm trying to suppress the anger. I really understand what it took to deal with your anger to the point that your shoulder pain wasn't intolerable and you deserve a big congratulations. Great job, all around.
This should make life better: the IgNobel Peace Prize 2006:
PEACE: Howard Stapleton of Merthyr Tydfil, Wales, for inventing an electromechanical teenager repellant -- a device that makes annoying noise designed to be audible to teenagers but not to adults; and for later using that same technology to make telephone ringtones that are audible to teenagers but not to their teachers.
REFERENCE: http://www.compoundsecurity.co.uk
WHO ATTENDED THE IG NOBEL PRIZE CEREMONY: Howard Stapleton planned to attend, but his plans were interrupted by a family medical situation.
Are you, you felt your feelings and spoke them clearly and concisely. You did no harm, because this person was so full of herself that she didn't hear you at all.
I came across this the other day:
"Turning the other cheek is not always the answer. In a certain situation on a certain day for a certain person, it's correct. Sometimes a good roundhouse kick on a certain day in a certain situation for a certain person is correct."
--Rama
--see, feel, resond, let go, repeat,.....ect. (repeat as necessary):cool:
I thought I'd bring this old topic back up, as something happened to me this morning that made me remember it. I had my patience tested to the limit this morning, while on my way to work. I have to get up at stupid o'clock in the morning (I don't do mornings, you can tell, huh? :crazy: ) so I enjoy a quiet snooze on the night-bus on my way in. About half-way into the journey, and a couple of very loud guys get on, shouting at each other, and generally being inconsiderate. The looks on the faces of my fellow commuters spoke volumes. This continued, as one of them turned on an MP3 phone to listen to some music, which both then started to sing along to. Appeals to them to turn it down, use earphones or turn it off fell on deaf ears, and they were becoming more unruly by the minute. I tried one last time to appeal to them for some consideration, and was met with the volume being turned UP.
By now, despite my best efforts, my blood was close to boiling point, but I refused to become aggressive or nasty. In my pocket, I carry a personal attack alarm, which emits a loud, shrill, shrieking noise to deter any would-be attacker, so I decided to get this out, and pulled the pin. Both immediately covered their ears, and shouted at me to turn it off. I calmly told them "Tell you what, I'll do you a deal. You turn yours off, and I'll turn mine off, OK?" They were grumpy, but peace ensued.
I'm still not happy that I allowed myself to become angry like this, but on the other hand, I'm glad that I didn't lose my temper completely as I would have done in the past- and I'm also grateful that things didn't get ugly and result in my face being rearranged. On the plus side, they have taught me a valuable lesson in controlling my temper; since I dislocated my shoulder three years ago, any time I become angry or heated to the point that my pulse rate goes up, I feel extreme pain in my shoulder due to the poor circulation there since it healed- I was able to suppress my emotions to the point where the pain stayed within tolerable levels....
sounds a rerasonable and RIGHT thing to do to make a point the non-violent way.
well done.
Xray
Comments
Honestly - this is only one little area of things that are wrong. And, despite everything that is going on - I still have a wonderful relationship with my son. But, your concern is greatly appreciated.
There are so many MORE things that need to be addressed and taken care of besides my whining.
It's too bad all "incorrect" things couldn't be taken care of at once. Like with the genie thing
questZENer,
I agree with you.
I think anger is normal and healthy. To not become angry is not to be human. To bottle up emotions that we have and pretend like they are not there, IMHO, is very bad indeed. It's how we handle these emotions.
I did tell him what I said to the person involved in this incident. I don't hide things from him and I'd rather have him see how I deal with anger than pretend that I'm some sort of a being different from him - because I'm emotionless or something.
I think children learn from example. If they see abusiveness in various situations - that is how they tend to respond to like situtations as they get older. They see a parent lie or cheat - it becomes so much easier for them as they grow up.
-bf
-bf
In regards to anger, I offer this short Sutta:
"Removing" is not the same as "bottling".
Jason
I never did state that the removal of anger would be a person's utmost goal.
But until that time, pretending anger is not there when it is is delusion. When we have anger, should we not recognize it for what it is - and then let it moved past us? What does one do with anger until they've found they can remove it?
That's all I'm saying.
-bf
That is where we have to be extra careful. The line between simply recognizing anger and acting very unskillfully because of it is a very fine one indeed. One should not bottle it up, but one should not simply let it arise, have it's way with you, and then regret it later either. Alas, the Path is not as pretty as it sometimes seems. It can more often than not be rough, uneven, and dangerous without the proper guides.
What to do when anger arises? How about:
Jason
In it he describes how Anger is an emotion, but the most damaging and hurtful of all of them.
he likens it to seizing a burning coal to throw at our 'enemy' ... But of course, the first person, who is burned the worst, is us.....We might even pitch it badly, and miss altogether, blinded as we are by the pain....
So we recognise Anger as a brazier within us. And we should channel and transform it to merely warm us, not to burn us.
I get angry. We all get angry. Different things affect different people; But the moment it arises, extend your hands...stretch them out infront of you and allow the warmth to nourish you....
Works for me.
But it takes time.
when you flare up
at someone who's angry.
Whoever doesn't flare up
at someone who's angry
wins a battle
hard to win.
You live for the good of both
— your own, the other's —
when, knowing the other's provoked,
you mindfully grow calm.
When you work the cure of both
— your own, the other's —
those who think you a fool
know nothing of Dhamma.
- Thag VI.12"
This is so helpful. I remember reading something Thubten Chodren wrote about treating anger, your own and that of others, with compassion and I'm starting to see how compassion can and does kill anger.
Thanks, Jason.
"Honestly - this is only one little area of things that are wrong. And, despite everything that is going on - I still have a wonderful relationship with my son. But, your concern is greatly appreciated.
There are so many MORE things that need to be addressed and taken care of besides my whining."
Buddhafoot,
Your "whining" is really not the only reason why I think this issue needs redress, don't worry! LOL! I see it as a serious, fundamental problem in society and I also have two close friends who are going through it right now. Their experiences are appalling.
Brigid
Having acquired the habit of anger from my father (and he from his), it has taken me many years to realise that my attempts to "kill anger" were futile and unskilled. My Buddhist and Sufi teachers came along just as I was beginning the move from psychotherapist to pilgrim. They showed me the inconsistency of my attitude: I would encourage "good" emotions whilst trying to eliminate the "bad" ones. Papa Freud said that he was not in the business of making sad people happy but of transforming neurotic tragedy into everyday unhappiness. Rilke speaks about embracing our "dark angels" because, if we repel them they come back as devils.
In my relationships, too, I began to notice how I would try to avoid anger and sadness, not just in me but in my partner, too. I would encourage the happy feelings. The result was that, time after time, anger and sadness would reappear more and more often. Anger acted out as resentment and irritability, sadness as moping and sulks.
It was, perhaps, in learning to practice tonglen that I began to notice a change, although I wonder if it was also because other practice had prepared me for it. It is not that anger, sadness, happiness or fear no longer arise. They do, because they are the products of mind-meets-body. What is fascinating is that they are no longer "bad" or "good". They simply are. They are not in charge of my actions, nor am "I" in charge of them.
It is as if I had been 'colour-blind'. Being unable to distinguish red from green caused many an accident of the railways until Dalton identified the condition and made tests to uncover it. It is, of course, a condition that is literally invisible to the sufferer unless they are compelled, by incident or test, to accept it. As with colours, so we may be blind to the distinctions and variations of the ways emotions arise.
Anger and fear are not our enemies. They have survival value and they energise the system. Sometimes, they release too much energy, particularly when the system is under pressure or there has been no earlier release. Additionally, the energies can go 'stale' and become malignant rather than useful.
All this opened for me like a water-lily: petal after petal. I used to want to suppress anger, fear and sadness but they will arise so they came in disguise, like the daughters of Mara. Once they are helped out of their disguises, they can take their rightful place among the strengths we need in order to walk the Middle Way.
In terms of the Mara myth, I see it like this: when I had stripped off the terrifying or the attractive, what I found underneath are my own offspring. I brought them to birth. They exist because of me. Mara and I are one and the same. How did the goose get into the bottle? Which came first, chicken or egg? And, just as I make no distinction of love between all my children, I can only prefer one feeling over another, repel one in favour of another by hallucinating.
I offer these thoughts because, just now, emotion is high in me and 'sitting with it' as I go about daily life has become a source of joy.
Hallelujah
M Bolden
I don't know where that puts me because I can say, at this point, I don't know of any "light" so I can't say that I adhere to it or deny it.
I also don't believe in demons in any faith. The only "demons" I've known are the ones that do 'ill' to others in this world that we live in.
I guess I have no idea what my religion is, which is just as well. Even Christ had no religion. That was something men came up with.
-bf
Oh dear - do you mean there is something WRONG with not knowing what one's religion is? Oh blast - can I come and stand in your corner BF because I don't wear much of a label either .... used to have a couple but they're tatty and unreadable now.
-bf
"It means we should only wear one sandal! Yes! We are the followers of the One Sandal!"
-bf
Hallelujah
M Bolden
By now, despite my best efforts, my blood was close to boiling point, but I refused to become aggressive or nasty. In my pocket, I carry a personal attack alarm, which emits a loud, shrill, shrieking noise to deter any would-be attacker, so I decided to get this out, and pulled the pin. Both immediately covered their ears, and shouted at me to turn it off. I calmly told them "Tell you what, I'll do you a deal. You turn yours off, and I'll turn mine off, OK?" They were grumpy, but peace ensued.
I'm still not happy that I allowed myself to become angry like this, but on the other hand, I'm glad that I didn't lose my temper completely as I would have done in the past- and I'm also grateful that things didn't get ugly and result in my face being rearranged. On the plus side, they have taught me a valuable lesson in controlling my temper; since I dislocated my shoulder three years ago, any time I become angry or heated to the point that my pulse rate goes up, I feel extreme pain in my shoulder due to the poor circulation there since it healed- I was able to suppress my emotions to the point where the pain stayed within tolerable levels....
And I know what you mean about your old injury giving you pain when you get angry. I can get into some serious trouble if I don't deal with my emotions properly. It's incredible how much physical pain can come about when the blood is racing and the chemicals are being released while in a state of anger, isn't it? When it first happened to me I didn't realize it was because of my anger but I figured it out pretty quickly and it never ceases to amaze me. It's such a clear illustration of the physiological effects of anger. And it gets much worse for me if I'm trying to suppress the anger. I really understand what it took to deal with your anger to the point that your shoulder pain wasn't intolerable and you deserve a big congratulations. Great job, all around.
I agree with Brigid; that was a stroke of genius! ROFLMAO!
Adiana:bowdown: :bowdown:
Are you, you felt your feelings and spoke them clearly and concisely. You did no harm, because this person was so full of herself that she didn't hear you at all.
I came across this the other day:
"Turning the other cheek is not always the answer. In a certain situation on a certain day for a certain person, it's correct. Sometimes a good roundhouse kick on a certain day in a certain situation for a certain person is correct."
--Rama
--see, feel, resond, let go, repeat,.....ect. (repeat as necessary):cool:
Metta
sounds a rerasonable and RIGHT thing to do to make a point the non-violent way.
well done.
Xray
Well done. :P