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a question on treating monks like gods?!
chanratt
Veteran
i have seen some of this monks meditation videos and found them to be quite useful. then i saw this installment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pEe9rUsm64 and it got me thinking 'why do we bow to monks etc'. i know that in Buddhism, bowing is seen as a gesture of respect, but i didnt see Ajahn Jayasaro bowing back; instead he just sat there like the buddha himself, or at least that's the impression i got. i'm sorry, but coming from a catholic background praying and bowing unsettles me because what attracts me to buddhism is how nonreligious it is. am igetting the wrong idea here? and when buddhists mention prayer, who the hell are we raying to?
0
Comments
When bowing to a monk you are bowing to the robes, not the person. The robes are the "banner of the Arahants", they are like a family heirloom that the Buddha has handed down to each successive generation. It is thanks to the ordained Sangha that we still have people who dedicate their lives to the Buddha's teaching and try their best to live by example. Just because someone is a monk or a nun doesn't mean they are going to be a supreme example of enlightenment but you can still bow to the robe and what it represents. But of course there is no obligation to bow, only bow if it is an expression of your confidence in Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha.
This is how I see it, anyway.
With Metta,
Guy
I would never bow to a monk that didn't bow back. At least not the second time. In the tradition I come from, it's supposed to be "bowing to the Buddha within", but that should go both ways. Just MHO.
don't worry too much about your preconceived ideas and focus on the message.
You've seen many of his videos and could appreciate his wisdom and humility... we should focus on this instead of on traditions that are unfamiliar to us and provoque a knee jerk reaction don't you think
Your bowing is set with condition and desire for reward in return. This bowing is hypocrite and not sincere respect. It would not yield loving kindness fruit.
It wouldn't be outrage/anger, on my part at least. Just boredom.
If a monk did not bow back, and a thought of outrage/anger entered my mind, whose fault would that be? Mine. It would have nothing to do with the monk whatsoever; they didn't do anything 'wrong' in not returning the bow. It was an expectation of mine, and such desire unfulfilled is dukkha.
In Buddhism we hold respect for the Buddha, his teachings, and the Sangha (both as the monks/nuns and the Ariya who have 'attained' at least stream-entry). There is no worship and there are no gods, though different Buddhist practices can be 'misunderstood' because they are so different.
Namaste
There are some who have accomplished the task. They are much loved and honored for their example and qualities that come forward. In honoring them we deepen aspiration and quicken our own practice. .....and we reeeeally appreciate them.
Fear of looking "religious" can go too far. New people attending our Sangha were saying they were turned off by the ritual and practices of devotion. It is not mandatory for them at all, but for some of us this is our spiritual home and we have loving gratitude for what we find worthy of loving gratitude. We restrained this aspect of practice during public sittings for a while but then decided, "this is what it is, take it or leave it". If that kind of thing is not your cup of tea there is plenty of Buddhist meditation available without any such elements.
Also, monastics represent the three jewels, and act as our direct source to the Buddha's teachings and the three jewels, thus they are allowing those people to show their reverence and respect for the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.
In some of the traditional Buddhist countries, the monastics are greatly respected by the lay community and it is not at all uncommon for one to stop as a monastic is walking by and at the very least put their palms together as a sign of respect and humbleness.
Western history teaches us that bowing is what you do to express subservience to kings, queens, and the like. That does not make it so for everyone.
A bow is done to yourself as much as the other person.
Well, it's what Disney was trying to say. Methinks English isn't Disney's primary language and so we are at the disadvantage of not being able to know the simple wisdom that he/she is putting out there without some kind of re-translation. *ponder*
Namaste
Cheers, Thomas
But in most Buddhist traditions where bowing is customary, it's considered a mark of respect to the 'Buddha in you'....
The word 'Namaste' literally means "The sacred in me, acknowledges the sacred in you" and is normally accompanied by a bow, and palm-to-palm hands, at the breastbone.
This gesture has become so commonplace, it's almost like a "Hi!"
I remember offering a thanks to a Tibetan lama, and he promptly, instantly gave it back to me by putting it round my neck.
My immediate thought was "no! I wanted you to have it!"
Bow for your own good reasons, and don't permit prejudice to cloud your intention.
As Lincoln rightly said, you're attaching a previously learnt conditioning to something with a different intention.
To approach Buddhism, it helps to let go of Christianity and Western concepts. The word "prayer" is one concept and word that doesn't really translate well.
You see, in Christianity, one prays to God ... to make "right" choices, to go to Heaven after death. The grace of God will save you if you have faith and worship God.
In Buddhism, NO ONE can save you except yourself. No one can enlighten you. You have to do it for yourself. Your teachers can teach you the techniques, but you are the one who must do the work. The Buddha and the Sangha (not referring to our meditation-buddies here) are examples of where we will end up if we follow the techniques.
Good question ... who the hell are we praying to? Not to a higher power, but to the potential inside of us. Christian prayer is a supplication, a request. Buddhist prayer is a mindful awareness of Buddha-nature inside us and inside all beings, and encourages our motivation to practice the techniques.
We all have the nature of Buddha within us ... this is not mystical, but merely that we all have the capability to become enlightened. It is this "buddha-within" that we "pray" to and that we pay reverence to in others.
For me personally, I am not praying "to" anything or anyone. I am praying "from". I am making an offering of the merits I have generated through my practicing, and my positive thoughts and aspirations, towards that to which I direct my prayers.
When I bow to someone, I am acknowledging their potential attainment of enlightenment. They may not currently be exhibiting many signs of same, but that is what I am acknowledging by bowing. I offer the same level of respect to altars, etc., since they are also representations of enlightenment.
"If you see the Buddha walking down the road, kill the Buddha."
The point was that you shouldn't develop an attachment even to Buddha or the idea of him. I'm very much a rookie so I may be wrong here.
I think the book What the Buddha Taught does a good job addressing some of these religious points.