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Did Buddha really eat nothing but hemp seeds?
I've been doing a lot of cannabis research lately, and I keep hearing and seeing - from tons of different cannabis-culture sources - that during his pre-enlightenment journeys Buddha's ascetic diet was entirely hemp seeds.
This is 'feasible' since hemp grew/grows lavishly in that whole region, and the seeds are one of the few 'perfect foods' out there (for all amino acids, essential fats, vitamins, minerals, etc.)
But I haven't been able to find any 'scholarly'/'historical' evidence or statements about this from 'trusted'/'respectable' sources.
Has anyone else come across any info. about this?
This is 'feasible' since hemp grew/grows lavishly in that whole region, and the seeds are one of the few 'perfect foods' out there (for all amino acids, essential fats, vitamins, minerals, etc.)
But I haven't been able to find any 'scholarly'/'historical' evidence or statements about this from 'trusted'/'respectable' sources.
Has anyone else come across any info. about this?
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Furthermore, the Buddha attempted to live a life of deprivation, and for a period of time, denied himself food and nourishment, but then realised that such restricted living was not conducive to, and neither did it add or contribute to, leading a noble path...
So he began to eat a normal diet and regained his strength and vitality.
I doubt very much he would have survived upon such food alone.
Even the most staunch anti-drug dietitians out there will admit that hemp seeds are one of the planet's single best sources of food, and that a human can live healthily off eating nothing but them. So technically it's very very feasible that Buddha did this - maybe not for years and years and years - but maybe for a substantial amount of time. Either way I'm super curious. Because hemp back then was not the low-THC industrial hemp we have today. If Buddha was eating hemp seeds, he was putting low doses of THC into his system.
I don't think he would have eaten hemp seeds to starve himself. I imagine they might have offered him the healthiest way to maintain his healthy body yet detach from the pleasure of eating tasty foods.
I'm super curious about this because small amounts (almost homeopathically small) of cannabis have been maybe the single most important and effective contributor to expanding into my own personal contemplative self, and my own personal 'enlightenments'. Yoga, super clean diet, long walks, meditation, etc. are fantastic, but for me a tiny amount of THC added to any of that kicks it all up into an amazing zone that makes a profound difference for me. Getting 'high' can be 'fun', but I'm talking about low-low doses...where I can barely feel it, but it somehow makes a wondrous difference in my perceptions. (Like one might get from eating nothing but hemp-seeds, back then....)
So I'm REALLY interested in tracking down the source of this notion about Buddha's diet...
Very little is known about the actual details of Siddhartha Gautama's life, let alone what he ate on a day to day basis. One important element of legend is that he came to the realization of "The Middle Way" between asceticism and a lavish lifestyle. So I doubt that you'll have any luck finding out about this supposition.
I would bet that all that "Yoga, super clean diet, long walks, meditation, etc." makes it so that your fecal material doesn't have a bad odor either....:D
But tiny amounts of THC are not that, at all. It's a very very different thing and doesn't belong in that category. A 'standard' amount of marijuana IS intoxicating. Just like too much turkey dopes you up, or too much sugar hypes you up, or too much coffee/tea speeds you up. Those are all forms of intoxication.
But in small doses, in a clean system, there's a different effect going on w/ THC. It's like how most people can think better when they have some food in their system (not counting intentional Fasts). The food is changing the sense of perception and ability to process. Same thing with green tea - it has HUGE effects (like cocaine-lite). But it's not a 'drug' or 'intoxicant' in any conventional sense.
I believe some part of the brain functions better when it gets those cannabinoids. We make our own version of them in our brains, so we are already made in our DNA for it, but if our lifestyle is out of whack (whose isn't!) small amounts of THC can function like a MEDICINE. Small amounts of THC may fill in for what we're not making ourselves (due to an imperfect lifestyle in this crazy modern world) SO THAT WE CAN THINK CLEARLY. As in, we're messed up by our lifestyles, and are not thinking or feeling or perceiving Reality clearly. And that bit of THC helps. So, really, it's the opposite of an intoxicant if used that way.
For me the best description is that it seems to synch the two hemispheres of my brain. The analytical left side is a modern-society-stressed 'clenched fist' that relaxes while the creative right side Breathes and 'feels the rhythm' of life's 'music'. With that balance, the insights I get and feel are subtle and beautiful and can be GAME CHANGERS for my life/soul.
There have been times when I have been SO clean (raw-vegan, fasts, cleanses, daily exercise/sweating, daily walking/biking, etc.) that my normal state was how I used to feel slightly 'high' on THC. With that degree of clean-living, I felt like a monk/buddha. And if I took THC in that superclean state, it only made me feel suuuper relaxed or maybe a touch tired. But I can't manage and sustain that kind of super clean lifestyle while living inside a city and remaining connected to my culture's mainstream (here in America). So in this in-between state, a tiny amount of THC can be 'enlightening' rather than 'intoxicating'.
So I am wondering if maybe Buddha utilized this effect in his journey to enlightenment. Ideally one wouldn't need the 'medicine' and could just get naturally high from yoga/meditation/etc., but on the 'road to recovery' (from attachment and craziness) it can maybe be a lovely little medicine (if only used as such). I wonder if it helped fuel and 'medicate' his lifestyle-detox during those first years.
When I first heard about Buddha eating nothing but hemp-seeds during that initial period, it resonated so deeply for me that I have a '6th-sense' that there's SOME angle of truth in there, in some way (big or small).
I'd love some help with tracking it down. I figured this website/forum would be a good place to check in.
You clearly want there to be truth to it. The Buddha tried many paths, and all of them except one did not cause his enlightenment. If the Buddha had considered hemp seeds skillful, perhaps he would have mentioned it? It might be better to study that which was taught as the path, rather than look to confirm your personal desire to see drugs as a condition of awakening.
I wonder, did your 6th-sense develop while high? Many ah-ha moments while stoned are still delusion, even when they appear to be perfect.
With warmth,
Matt
I'm pretty sure if Buddha had existed on nothing but hemp seeds, that a) it would have been written about, and b.) he'd have died of malnutrition at a lot younger age...
Mtns
But while we're on the subject of healthy practices that might contribute to a more enlightened frame of mind, I have heard that four to eight ounces of rose water mixed with eight ounces of citrate of magnesia, over crushed ice if you prefer, and consumed over 30 minutes, can be a very en-"lightening" experience.
(Yes, Mountains, I'm a nurse too. 30 years. I am familiar with the truly cleansing effect of rose water and citrate of magnesia.)
I have to agree. It seems "high"ly (get it? HAR HAR) unlikely.
So, can we please not start the cannabis/Buddhism debate again? It never ends well.
Even though this post is not contributing at all to the discussion, I wanted you to know that this made me laugh, thank you
Hemp seeds are a true super food as you say.
I eat them regularly (You can buy them in health Food stores).
They are the most complete food on the planet, but they still don't have all we need, so I doubt anyone could survive on just them for years.
I have also heard that he used to eat the flowers, but this is , like eating the seeds, hard to find any evidence of.
What is important is that good or bad as such stories may seen to you, none of it is relevant to the Path:)
namaste
Hemp seeds don't contain THC, which is why they're safe to consume. They do have a lot of essential fatty acids and protein. I like the hemp seed granola, and I sometimes use hemp protein powder for my morning shakes. Industrial hemp is different from psychedelic cannabis.
I think the OP was referring to those who try and make a connection between cannabis and Buddha, when really there's no evidence for it either way. He may have eaten them prior to reaching enlightenment, or afterward. Since he and his followers adhered to begging for food and eating what was offered, it's possible that he ate hemp seeds during his lifetime. My question is, what difference does it make?
I agree. I am also very convinced that the Buddha wasn't a stoner; I just don't think you can adequately practice when high.
It is actually fairly important with regards to the precept against intoxication; i.e. what does "intoxication" mean?
Is it just drunk? Is it drunk and stoned? Is it opium? Is it some plant or substance we have no idea about?
And the answer to that question, scripturally, is that we just don't and cant know. But in a more Dharmic sense (remember, there was Dharma before scripture), I think the answer is able to be seen pretty clearly.
We should not be intoxicated to live Dharma not because some dusty, alleged precept says so, but because it is easy to see how being intoxicated prevents practice.
namaste
I get what you're saying, and I see how that would a valid point to consider.
I posed the question as more of a follow up to the fact that hemp seeds aren't psychoactive; so whether he did or not, it doesn't make any difference with regards to entering altered states of consciousness.
Again, I think any kind cannabis debate should be avoided on this forum.
I'm glad it made you laugh
I wasn't aware of the rule that all comments had to "contribute to the discussion" here (in whose opinion?). Clearly there *are* people with some kind of an agenda who would like to make a hemp/cannabis-Buddhism connection though. That was my point.
Mtns
Cannabis debates are like rebirth debates, except less stressful and less meaningful:p
Observing the bigger picture, certain TV shows and advertising, for example, can put just as much of a distortion on reality as cannabis. Focusing on the specifics of what clouds our mindful observations is not the reality of the issue, and is a delusional argument about delusion. Perhaps the means of the argument are the same as what is being argued about.
(This is from Chris Bennett, a noted cannabis-historian.)
yes, I chased that down, the 3rd century AD Indian text, the Lalita Vistara has been cited as a likely source:
The prince coming to the Ka-ye (Gaya) mountain, to the Ni-h'n (Nairanjana) river, reflected, considering that, as he intended to penetrate to the secret influences which actuate the conduct of men, he might, after six years, be in a position to save them. Thus he addressed himself to the practice of austerities (Dushkaracharya), each day eating one grain of hemp, one grain of rice; by this means reducing himself to a condition of overcoming all pleasure. Afterwards, perceiving that this was not the true way, he pursued the contrary method, using indulgencies, bathing, perfuming himself, and so on; by these means he subdued sorrow (as the text says).
...............................................
Also, Christian Raetsch's says that same stuff, in "Marijuana Medicine" - that according to Tibetan/'Lamaistic' Buddhism, Buddha ate hemp seeds during those first 6 years.
I leave it to others to take issue with your sources.
I think you really should consider the citrate of magnesia.
If it's proven beyond a doubt would you quit cannabis? My guess (which I would say is uneducated on the basis that I don't know your motive) is that you want to be able to practise Buddhism and a small habit.
As has been mentioned before, the smoke vs not to smoke debate has been around here before (much like vegetarianism vs carnivores and the rebirth vs no rebirth) and never really adds anything useful to the forum.
It is my belief that at the end of the day, Buddhism does not promote intoxicants of any kind. It's up to the individual to try to reconcile that with his/her own habits.
Namaste,
Raven
Yes. Once upon a time there was this caged red bird whose owner insisted on feeding it only hemp seeds. Now, this man named his bird Buddha and a legend grew up around this remarkable bird that lived for eight years in captivity in its golden cage in Baghdad.
The bird's owner, Ben-jay-mehn Ben-da-lay-dee, tried unsuccessfully for several years to get his beautiful, beloved red bird to prophesy about the future. Ben-jay-mehn spared no expense in getting the best hemp seed that money could buy. He had several visitors each day and every night a lot of hemp smoking would go on. However, the smoke really irritated the bird and all he would say was, "You uncouth pot smokers, go away and let me breathe some fresh air." However, as Ben-jay-mehn knew no English, he never discovered the true sense of what his beloved Buddha was saying. Ben-jay-mehn interpreted the saying as "Yun-Kooth-Pot-o-mac Guay-Les-Bray-Frosh-Wah," which in Urduk meant, "Some day I will tell thee a story that will make both your ears tingle."
So, this went on for several years. But never was the prophecy unveiled. After the death of his dear bird, Buddha, Ben-jay-mehn Ben-da-lay-dee was heard to say that he was very disappointed that things turned out the way they did and realized that his was not the true Buddha.
Thus have I heard.
Well from multiple sites. the 5th precept
"Taking intoxicant(s) will descend and lose the seed of wisdom. Intoxicants, such as drugs, liquor, smoking, etc., are harmful to health."
web.singnet.com
"intoxicating drinks and drugs causing heedlessness."
www.thebigview.com/
"5. I undertake the training rule to abstain from fermented drink that causes heedlessness"
(considered a "pali training rule")
http://en.wikipedia.org
"I will exercise proper care of my body and mind, I will not be gluttonous nor abuse intoxicants"
http://www.gardendigest.com/zen/ten.htm
which is followed by
" Refrain from intoxicants that cloud the mind. "
I think it's made clear that (on most sites) you should refrain from using ANYTHING that clouds the mind, or changes your perception/thought process. In my opinion this would count marijuana, in any dose. Though, judging by people's comments, if the seeds have no THC then it is not the same thing, and even if the Buddha DID eat them, it does not justify smoking.
It's just my general rule on forums usually, even if it's not a site rule, to try to make every post useful. I'm less likely to annoy the people who have been there longer and know how the site runs, and I feel it is just a better forum experience for everyone in general
I will tell you how it is with me (As a Moderator):;)
I am all for good-humoured discussion, which contributes, even in its humour, to the gist of the thread. I like a good giggle myself....
However, two things:
One, if a thread is thrown hopelessly off-topic (Good-humouredly or otherwise) I will endeavour to steer it back.
Two, discussion promoting or advocating the taking of illegal substances for recreational purposes is NOT PERMITTED and is likely to contravene certain international regulations governing on-line content. The same regulations, incidentally, which prevent terrorists openly discussing how to make bombs, or paedophiles advertising and the suchlike...
You get the gist, I'm sure.
Furthermore, it is important, in any discussion either requiring verifiable sources, or claiming them, that such sources be presented as accessible for others to check and see for themselves. This can be done by way of providing links, or quotations from a book, providing the book is readable on line, and/or readily available.
It's no good saying "I've got this book on my shelf, so there..."
Hopefully, that clarifies.
Ok, carry on! :cool:
Looking back I should have worded my final statement(s) more clearly. My own personal belief is that the individual must decide where they stand. The precepts are crystal clear (IMO) - no intoxicants of any kind. I cannot tell anyone here how to practise. I can disagree with them (and so can others), but I cannot force them to practise as I do. I can however try to understand from their point of view - although admittedly I find it hard to when it comes to this precept.
Respectfully,
Raven
I envy your power :eek: That wasn't on topic was it? I do apolagise
Kind regards,
Nicki-J
I do believe the precept on not being intoxicated is essential to the Buddhist path as they all are, but the buddha would not have become intoxicated from the seeds if he ate them as a sense seeking prince, a nihilist man or an awoken being.
Far from it. Trungpa drank himself to death - he died of sclerosis of the liver. To this day his teachings on "mindful drinking" are used by some in the Sangha he founded as an excuse for their own alcoholism. They forget that in his last months Trungpa was a bedbound incontinent drunk being looked after 24/7.
Drink a beer or two - or smoke a joint - if you are mindful enough you will feel the moment when "heedlessness" cuts in. Most people are not that mindful though, and so abstinence would seem a wiser way to tread the path.
M
Sorry that our answers didn't satisfy you. Why bother asking the sangha for our opinion? It seems like you just wanted to hear from others who shared the view that hemp seeds = cannabis = Buddha. I think most people here are more focused on other aspects of Buddhism.
Okay, I guess you have your answer. Buddha ate hemp seeds. And?
I'm not trying to be rude, but really wondering what's the point, especially if you already have the information you were asking about.
You don't have to agree with opposing views, but at least try and see things from their perspective. I have gained much insight from asking questions and getting thoughts from different people.
It's not everything it's cut out to be, always....
As the great movie line states:
"With Great Power, comes Great Responsibility".
I have never intentionally, wilfully or maliciously used my position as Moderator to unskilfully moderate anything on this forum, although perhaps others will disagree. They may be right, I'm not sure, but I don't think (I hope sincerely that it is so) I have ever wantonly 'thrown my weight about'.
But if it comes to it, I will not hesitate to metaphorically "Kick @$$" if the situation warrants it.
And that too, was off-topic, so that rounds it off nicely.
Back to topic, please.
He reduced himself to nothing, he was skin and bones, it was not healthy. He did not "overcome all pleasure," he simply denied himself of it. In any event the fact that he POSSIBLY (no one knows what he ate, let's be honest... until they find a Buddha turd from that time in his life, if he existed, it's myth) ate one grain of hemp a day is no more relevant than him eating also one grain of rice a day. But you're trying to draw some connection from his enlightenment to his diet which he gave up years before becoming enlightened? I would also love to hear one qualified expert state that a person can survive and be fully nourished by a grain of rice and a single hemp seed a day.
Quoted for emphasis...
Wtf?
As a side note:Marijuana, even in small doses, has been stated as something that will still cloud your perception, thus breaking precept number 5, and making it harder to obtain Enlightenment
I believe that about sums up everyone's opinions yes?
I guess, c3hbm, that you can choose to take this either way you want. But you seem to have come here in hopes to justify your marijuana use, which hasn't happened.
Quite, I'm sure the power would go to my head
I'm pretty sure diet doesn't have anything to do with enlightenment, as I think is your opinion (?). Well.... as long as you eat mindfully, compassionately, gratefully and considerately... in my opinion.
Kind regards,
Nickidoodle Jellybean
Is that a reference to *cough* Douglas *cough* Adams *cough* or have I missed something
Kind regards,
Nickidoodle Jellybean
Kind regards,
Nickidoodle Jellybean
Yes, it is.
I think he's answering by avoiding giving an answer, as the response might incriminate him.
Maybe.
Call it a 'clever clogs' way of pleading the 5th....:D
Come to a Buddhist board and ask a question of Buddhists. They don't give the answer you want to justify your attachment, so off you go in a cloud of smoke.....so to speak.
IF Buddha ate only hemp seeds during his time of ascetic practices, he abandoned and rejected that path, therefore it would still not be evidence that it is a good idea Buddhistically speaking. (to eat only hemp seeds...I doubt he would have any opinion on eating them as part of a healthy diet)
Eating hemp seeds with no THC is not the same as smoking weed anyway, and one doesn't need to dig for obscure dubious references to ascertain that the Buddha was opposed to using intoxicants.
So if you like smoking weed, that is your choice, but it is not a choice that would be endorsed by the Buddha.
If I could go back in time I'd grab good old Sid by the throat and tell him to never mention attachments! People here are way to attached to non-attachment. I now here that word so much it loses all meaning! Like when you say parakeet so much it just sounds like a funny sound, which it is! :crazy:
crazy regards,
nickidoodle jellybean
So true and a a great line:)
We Buddhists have a habit of expecting everyone to talk as if we are Buddhas, which, we aint.
LOL! I bet you are and I'm sure you do
I think we've sufficiently completed this topic. I hope we didn't scare off c3bhm; it's important to ask questions, even if you didn't get the answer you were looking for.