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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited November 2005
Well Folks, Friday has come round again, and Thanksgiving - and Christmas - are fast approaching....
Doesn't time fly? A salutary lesson then, that every day is one day less....
THis week the 'theme' from the Eightfold Path has been 'Right Action', insofar as examination and experience of the Path has been undertaken in this thread...
I'm in no way suggesting this should become a public confessions box, but would anyone like to come in with an experience of the past week, they feel might be a good example of having adhered to - or otherwise! - this particular 'Spoke of the Wheel'?
French Administration is extremely frustrating.
When you're employed in France, you are ascribed a specific social security number, that stays with you always, but for each employer, there is a different Health insurance Company. When you stop working for one employer, you either adopt the health Insurance company of your new subsequent employer, or stay covered by the previous one while you supposedly receive unemployment benefit, and until you find a new job. Then, you're swapped.
It's a complex, lenghty administrative procedure still done with paper forms and pen-pushing.... the French haven't completely accepted computers or their trustworthyness, so you can have no idea how much paperwork, and how many photocopies and forms have been involved so far.
Well, I'm now informed, for the first time in six years, that I have to provide a translation of an English Birth Certificate. Nobody has ever demanded this before. It's never happened, nor been asked of me.
It has to be an official translation, carried out by a government-approved translator, complete with official stamp (of course!) and I can't afford fifty Euros to have this done. So the health Department is getting it done - no problem; but it will delay our request for inscription into the correct health scheme by around three months, maximum....
Well, I'm listening to all of this datribe going on infront of me, on the 'phone, as the guy is listening to all of this and relaying it back to me, and I'm reaching for the revolver....
So then I stop and realise: Let go. Just relax your Mind. Think the Right Thing. Say the Right Thing. Do the Right Thing....
It's so easy to resist and to want to fight the system. It's so clear to see how wrong, tangled up and obstructive it is. It's so easy to be obstinate, and dig the heels in, and argue, "Why Now? Why never before, in all this time? Why do I have to suddenly do this NOW?!?"
It was much harder than I thought it would be, to 'let Go'. But the very fact that the idea of doing so popped into my head, for me, is a sign that my Mind-frame is evolving.
So I found myself relaxing.... from the head down.... I released my neck and shoulders, just 'dropped' them and let them soften.... I sat up, in composure. I uncrossed my legs, and placed my feet gently on the floor, about two inches apart. I quietly folded my hands in my lap, and permitted the hint of a smile to rise from within and place itself on my lips. And I waited for him to finish on the phone.
Then I strangled him.
No!! Just kidding!!
He explained to me that it was just like it was. This is the way it had to be.
And in this case, to resist or argue would have been just :banghead:
So it is that I must submit other paperwork to help them in their translation. And so it is that I have to replace paperwork they've also mislaid. So it is, so it is, so it is....
My 'Right Action' didn't actually involve doing something. it involved NOT doing something. Resisting, arguing, getting mad to no avail....
My Right Action involved relaxing, and 'letting Go'....
My Right Action' involved Doing Nothing at All.....:type:
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited November 2005
The Wheel turns constantly, and this week we find ourselves examining the line of Work we're involved in....
Does what we do tie in with what we believe, and what we practise?
What is our opinion of certain Businesses that blatantly seem to go against 'Right Everything'? (For example, designing and creating weapons of any kind, raising animals just to kill them for their fur,) and what about jobs which are borderline? What would you say they are, and how do you feel about them? Do you try to implement the Eightfold Path during your period of work? I remember Dawn&Mike asking the other members how they could best do this, and more recently, Jerbear has spoken of the difficulties he faces at work, trying to juggle what he believes with what his duties are.....
THis week, as we walk, cycle, drive or bus to work, let's try to start the day with 'Right Everything' and end it with 'How did I do today?' Not judgementally, but as pure observation.... and come in, join in, exchange and engage....!!
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited November 2005
....As it's virtually wednesday, would anyone like to come in on this one.....?
Fede,
I haven't worked yet this week but I'm working Wed & Thur night, so I can post on Fri. I'm sure something interesting will come up. It always does.
Federica,
my job has me constantly at odds with or rather constantly forces me to remember my practice and the path almost every moment of every day. as far as things involved that go against my beliefs, the massive consumption of fossil fuels, (and everything that goes on behind the scenes because of this ie. wars, killing, greed, hatred, delusion) all in the name of oil which is used to produce gas and deisel, not to mention the pollution caused by the burning of fossil fuels, or the devastation to the environment by spills when transporting these fuels. then there is the aspect of driving and road rage and uneducated or inattentive drivers, and always having to "stop" , remember the breath, calm myself, remember my practices, focus, stay proffessional and do not get tempted to retaliate when put in difficult situations. i also constantly battle within myself about how what i do keeps me away from my wife and children, all in the pursuit of material things, i was on the road when my son passed away last year. sorry for being so long winded but this shall be my little contribution for know, today is the american thanksgiving and i am sitting in a truck stop in virginia, once again away from my family (two weeks without a full day off) and working on my third. anyhow, constantly practicing and trying very hard to stay on the path.
joseph
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited November 2005
Well the forum is deserted....it's been a very quiet few days, I would guess due to Thanksgiving, and it now being the weekend....
And the days go inexorably by.....
We find ourselves in Week Six of our appraisal of the Eightfold Path...and we're at Right Effort.
I remember, in my dim and distant past, reading a book titled 'You can Heal your Life' by Louise Hay.... who amongst other things counselled or advised that people might like to stop using the term "Should" and exchange it for the word "Could". That would then assist in exposing the real reason why they don't do the things they felt guilty about not doing. For example, "I SHOULD write to my aunt..." which implies feeling guilty about not writing, and lays all the blame on your SHOULDers..... becomes "I COULD write to my aunt...." which probably then brings up the answer "....but I don't feel like it! I hardly ever see her anyway!" Which then allows you to tackle what the motivation & reward would actually be!
Yianla Vanzant echoed this 'should' sentiment many years later, by stating "Don't go 'Should-ing' on anybody!"
But Right Effort puts the "Should" into perspective - and right back where it belongs.
Right Effort is not something that 'should' weigh heavily on the Shoulders.... it 'could' weigh heavily on the shoulders, but it is an aspect of the Eightfold Path which we can embrace with Joy and Acceptance. It is the Drive, the Motivation, the Desire to stick to the Walk. It is what makes us bite our tongue to quell the hasty verbal retort. It is what makes us take a deep breath before reacting hastily to a situation usually guaranteed to ruin our day.....
A friend of mine, who went through a terrible time facing up to the death of a loved one, found her life spiralling out of control, and she began to drink heavily. One day, she chanced to pick up a book on Buddhism, and saw the line - "Enlightenment takes Effort."
She typed this out in huge letters and stuck it on the mirror above her mantelpiece. And began to turn her life around......
Walking the Eightfold Path takes Effort.
Living Life daily, for some, is more of an Effort than for others.
But each step is one step further - one might even say closer - to that which we aspire to..... It has been said that 'it's more the Journey than the Destination', but no matter what it is that we're all doing, Right Effort is right there, amongst them all, glaring like an orange road signal......
Fede,
We are going to start the Noble Eightfold path in "The Heart of the Buddha's Teachings" book forum (not club, since Oprah has clubs). Might be able to get things going over here too I hope for you.
As for Right Effort, this is another aspect of my work that I constantly struggle with. As you all know, I work as a nurse in medical intensive care. As already stated, I do follow doctor's orders whether I agree with them or not. There is always discussions about "code" status (end of life measures, mechanical life support, cpr and the like), what would the "patient" want vs the quality of life issues vs what does the family want. It can be quite mind boggling at the time.
Here's the rub. My personal ethical values sometimes have to be put aside to do what I may not think is in the best interest of the patient. Other nurse's and I have joked (ICU humor, please be not offended) about walking around the unit, having a cup of coffee, talking with our fellow nurse's then going and coding the patient if still alive. It helps relieve the stress of the situation. Codes are stressful. I was in one the other night and we were there for an hour, not less than 5 minutes like on your local tv show. The patient made it, but I found myself going into auto pilot mode. I sometimes just "do my job" unmindfully in order to do my job. This is one area that will be a struggle for me for a while I think. When you have someone's life in your hands, it's a scary prospect. But I still do all that I can if that's what the orders say. That is Right Effort in one way even though I may not agree.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited November 2005
Yes, I guess it was inevitable that at one point the two discussions would overlap... If I had done my homework, or thought about it, I guess I would have realised that before I suggested discussing the Eightfold Path as a separate subject, although not everyone who has been into "my" thread (for the sake of argument!) has got a copy of TNH's book....which I guess would be the reason for an 'absence' of some members from "your" thread - !
So we shall begin with 'Right View' in the Book Thread....
and 'seeing' things with the benefit of TNH's wise words to guide us..!
I have a tremendous respect for people such as yourself who do the jobs most people either never think about, or simply take for granted.
And the one phrase I am always reminded of, is that before we assume the right to even offer an opinion on certain aspects of Life, we shoud 'walk a Mile' in that person's shoes....
I have been told by a friend in A & E, and another whose nursing 'speciality' is care for the Elderly, that 'hospital humour' can be macabre.... and I understand that at times, it's the only thing that can keep you sane.
But perhaps (and I am in no way implying criticism!) Right Effort also entails making every possible Effort to maintain the patient's dignity.
WE can never be completely sure how much a diagnosed comatose patient can actually absorb and hear.... there have been cases of recovering patients being able to repeat whole overheard conversations, when it was assumed that they were 'out for the count'.
And I can only presume that many vestiges of human dignity fly out of the window when a patient needs their sheets changed due to 'accidents'.... when they come to rely entirely on the assistance of others to perform even the most basic functions....
So even in this case, sometimes it pays to put ourselves in their shoes....
I am just thinking out loud here, Jerbear. I'm not being critical. Goodness knows you have more than enough to contend with, without someone like me spouting their two penn'orth at you.
I have absolutely no doubt that you understand completely where I'm coming from. And perhaps you're aware of Nursing & Medical Staff who are not as Mindful' as yourself.....
How do you cope or deal with them?
..................................
Here's the rub. My personal ethical values sometimes have to be put aside to do what I may not think is in the best interest of the patient. Other nurse's and I have joked (ICU humor, please be not offended) about walking around the unit, having a cup of coffee, talking with our fellow nurse's then going and coding the patient if still alive. It helps relieve the stress of the situation. Codes are stressful. I was in one the other night and we were there for an hour, not less than 5 minutes like on your local tv show. The patient made it, but I found myself going into auto pilot mode. I sometimes just "do my job" unmindfully in order to do my job. This is one area that will be a struggle for me for a while I think. When you have someone's life in your hands, it's a scary prospect. But I still do all that I can if that's what the orders say. That is Right Effort in one way even though I may not agree.
Jerbear, dear SanghaFriend,
You are asking the ultimate ethical question, aren't you? You follow the doctors' orders and are, at the same time, an individual with your own code of ethics and your personal responsibility. When I started to read this paragraph, I was put in mind of the dilemma of the soldier, for example, who obeys orders and then finds themselves compromised.
When we sat with patients dying of AIDS-related opportunistic infections, it seemed to me that we had to go onto "autopilot". During those hours, our own responsibility had to be transformed into a genuine responsiveness to the dying person's needs.
Most people, for most of the time, rarely have to face such extreme ethical dilemmas. It is hard to realise that there are no pat answers when we are faced with the real decisions.
As I had said, sometimes I go into auto-pilot mode to do my job when it disagrees with my personal ethics. The every day tasks of a nurse do not bother me in the least. Cleaning up an old, sick person from an 'accident' bothers me in the least. That's why they are there. Changing dressings, starting IV's and the like is what I do best. I also realize that in caring for people I prefer the critically ill and the elderly. That requires that I face these kinds of issues on a semi-regular basis.
As mentioned, I've joked to at the desk about things that I would never say in front of a patient. I have read that we don't know what a comatose patient hears. I don't know what they said to me when I was out for 36 days. But it doesn't mean it didn't register. I felt I got substandard care for an ICU. Not sure why either because the time I was awake was fine. Maybe things were said that I can't recall.
And in the past 8.5 years, I'm sure I've said something unthinking in front of a comatose patient. I really do try and see it from the patient's point of view, even more so since I've been the patient. My partner said on his side was a living hell until I woke up and recognized him. I realize that a family is looking at their loved one in a totally different way than I am. They see their mother/father/loved one as a part of their lives, not a patient with a diagnosis requiring critical care. Which is another way we must deal with it.
Thanks for listening to my thinking. I'm sure this will continute as long as I am an ICU nurse or I come to peace with it. That's what I'm hoping for.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited December 2005
I'm just looking at the first line of Jerbear's previous post, where he speaks of going into 'AutoPilot'.... We're also pretty much at the juncture in the thread 'The Heart of the Buddha's Teachings' where we shall be discussing this same 'spoke of the Wheel'... only TNH refers to it as Mindfulness....
The two threads are running parallel: TNH admits he's discussing the Eightfold Path out of their conventional order, but this is because he considers Mindfulness to be important, and highly pertinent for the others to be practised.....
For me, before reading this chapter, Mindfulness is just being in the moment, so that you're watching everything you do, before it arises and becomes a concrete thought or action..... But I will forbear from giving any further view on the subject, until I have fully read what the Master has to contribute....!
I'm just looking at the first line of Jerbear's previous post, where he speaks of going into 'AutoPilot'.... We're also pretty much at the juncture in the thread 'The Heart of the Buddha's Teachings' where we shall be discussing this same 'spoke of the Wheel'... only TNH refers to it as Mindfulness....
The two threads are running parallel: TNH admits he's discussing the Eightfold Path out of their conventional order, but this is because he considers Mindfulness to be important, and highly pertinent for the others to be practised.....
For me, before reading this chapter, Mindfulness is just being in the moment, so that you're watching everything you do, before it arises and becomes a concrete thought or action..... But I will forbear from giving any further view on the subject, until I have fully read what the Master has to contribute....!
Federica,
Thanks, but I am no where near being a master at this yet. Maybe Simon or you are, but not me. Buddhafoot might think he is a master but it's not at this.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited December 2005
Oooooch.....erm......actually..... I was referring to TNH....
(as Jerbear quietly retracts his statement said in complete ignorance)
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited December 2005
And we'e in the Eighth - and final - week of our examination of the Eightfold Path..... Also sometuimes referred to as 'Right Concentration'
According to Bikkhu Bodhi, "Concentration represents an intensification of a mental factor present in every state of consciousness."
As one sage put it, "When am I NOT meditating?"
The question is, what role does meditation play in your Life? To what extent has it affected - or even changed - your Life?
What an interesting question. Meditation has affected my life in a few ways.
1. It does quiet the monkey mind down. I just got back to meditating in the past few months. As I practice, the monkey mind starts swinging from tree to tree. When I realize it, I have to practice kindness to myself and bring my thoughts back to the breath. I think kindness towards oneself is the part of the antidote for the monkey mind. In meditation, it takes patience and discipline to get to one pointedness of mind. These can be taken out of our practice and put to use in the every day world.
2. Taking what I've learned in meditation and bringing it into the real world. That patience and discipline our wonderful tools in the everyday world. I've left the patience part of it out for too long. Meditation is teaching me how to be patient with me. And in turn I try to show that patience with others. I'm learning to look at others and realize they are suffering like me. In my job, it's easy to see as it is an environment that has a lot of sadness in it. But it is easy to become professionally distant and forget these are real people with real lives and not just a diagnosis with a code status.
Just my initial thoughts on the topic. Will post later on my thread after I read the chapter.
I just started reading through this thread front to back, and of course just joined yesterday so am kind of playing catch-up here. I really like what you've done and have picked up a lot just from reading through this. Rather than try and go through all of it over, I'll just start here where you are now.
I try to devote at least a little time to meditation each day. Which mind you is difficult around my house. But even if I can't sit for a while I go out for a long walk, no matter the weather and just use that time to not only examine the past day but to run a kind of personal diagnostic.
There are other time I have used it to calm down, such as when my disabled Aunt is being difficult. I often have to try and see it from her point of view that I'm around half her age, but I'm also just trying to help.
My friend Josh got me this mini Zen garden for my birthday and I can sit with that thing transfixed for hours at a time. Sometimes I don't think about anything at all, but I always feel better afterward.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited December 2005
Sogyal Rinpoche refers to meditation as 'Bringing the Mind Home.' He went on to say that, "The gift of learning to Meditate is the greatest gift you can give yourself in this life."
I find myself to be an erratic meditator....
I have no set period of the day, in which to meditate.... I have no definitive period of time, which I devote to it..... I am not that disciplined.
Some are, and I am happy for them. It is something that is recommended, in all walks and schools of Buddhism, and it is something I know I must address for myself, and improve upon.
But I DO meditate. Particularly if I find myself actually within a stressful moment.... Whatever is happening, however the situation is progressing, I find a second in which to stop. And bring my Mind Home. I re-centre. I focus. I empty my Mind of Thoughts and connect with the feeling. I AM.
This is when I most need that which I know. This is when I call upon it.
And it has sustained me during a very difficult year, and through some very trying moments.
There have been times during this year when I have touched upon despair, and even if, for a brief period I have succumbed to the pain of the Moment, I have worked through it and it has not lasted long.
Granted, I have the Love and Support of my wonderful Man, which I know is of primary importance to me....
But Bringing my Mind Home has been a Life- Saver.....
True it is, that without the Entire Eightfold Path, I would be a shadow of the person I am today..... and no matter how erratic, brief, and irregular my Meditation, It brings me to the centre, and lets me just Be.
I agree. As I said I often find myself doing it to calm down, step back from a situation and look at it anew. I don't have any particular time of day that I meditate, it just sorts tries to work itself in with the million and one things that I have to do in a day. Well, that I feel I have to do.
Don't hate me Fede, but I'm one of those daily meditators. That 20 minutes is like a training for me. My mind can be so scattered that focusing on the breath is helpful and a challenge. I did get to the point previously where I could focus on the breath for quite a long time. Coming back to the practice, it hasn't been so easy. But I press on. I know I will get back to being able to focus.
Just cuz I'm excited about it, I won a Tibetan Buddhist altar on Ebay. It was easy as I was the only one that bid on it. Very nice. Once I get a picture up then I may take a picture of the altar. I figure ya'll want to know what I look like more than the altar. Brian has met me and found out I'm insane. LOL!
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited December 2005
I don't need to meet you to know you're insane.....:crazy:
Mind you, it takes one to know one....!!
And I don't hate you - how could I possibly hate you?
Absence of regular meditation is a situation I need to redress for myself... If anyone is to be found wanting, it is I....
At least I do it occasionally, which is an improvement on onceuponatime, when I never even did it at all....!
Let me encourage you to meditate. I really do get a lot out of it. Besides the quiet it affords me (Mike, my partner, dare not bother me during that time), it is also good discipline. One of the things we Westerners need a bit more of. I find that when I meditate regularly my wants decrease naturally. I am of the typical consumer mindset. But since my accident last year, my income has dropped dramatically. It used to bug me that I couldn't buy all I wanted. But through regular meditation, it seems to have died away.
It also makes me feel good about myself knowing that I am putting the effort towards my practice. It is something I can point to. Also, there are times that it is really cool to experience the quiet inside gained from it.
I'll stop now. I don't bug smokers this much as I am an ex-smoker and refuse to gripe at them.
Federica,
Thanks, but I am no where near being a master at this yet. Maybe Simon or you are, but not me. Buddhafoot might think he is a master but it's not at this.
Hey!
I resemble that remark.
Sorry dude, I'm not even a jack of all trades, much less a master at anything
I struggle to attain 2 hours a month! or is that because I'm "attached" to the concept of needing to practise?
Buddha said not to become attached, so maybe all is ok (no worries)
help me out Zen Monk HAHA
I struggle to attain 2 hours a month! or is that because I'm "attached" to the concept of needing to practise?
Buddha said not to become attached, so maybe all is ok (no worries)
help me out Zen Monk HAHA
I really shouldn't. Especially since the Zen way is often to force someone up against their barriers, rather than giving hints as to a way through. But, what I would say, and reassuringly this will be of no help at all, is that first of all, it's ok to be attached to practice. You wouldn't go out without trousers on for example but that sort of 'attachment' stops you getting arrested, it's healthy. Well at least with your legs. So it's fine to be attached to practice in the sense that we do it.
One problem might be the idea of practice, as opposed to just doing it, and particularly the idea of meditation. Our ego resists stillness, resists silence. That's what it's there for. It can't maintain it's sovereignty if it didn't resist, because it is that resistance, and that's why it comes up so strongly with even the thought of meditation for many people. That's actually good news believe it or not, strong resistance is strong energy and leads to strong practice. Strong practice isn't necessarily measured in how many hours a day that you sit.
If you can start where you are, and say just bring your attention to your breathing and posture when you first sit down at your computer - then you are practicing every day and it's strong practice. Just that paying attention every day is already strong practice.There's nothing to add or take away from that. And if you go with that, then naturally your sitting will build, or not as the case may be. You won't get struck by lightning after all if you don't sit. So I'd say, just start there - one minute a day, and don't beat yourself up about not sitting, don't indulge the resistance by playing around with guilt and rationalisations - weak practice, strong practice, good practice, bad practice. Nonsense - just practice, or don't practice.
Be aware for a few moments of your breath, of your body, of how your mind is, in those few moments when you're waiting for your pc to boot up, or you're waiting in the checkout queue at the store - and you'll have already begun to transform resistance into stability. Then you'll see how you resist the simple fact that sitting does sitting, Zazen does Zazen.
Thank you ZM. Point taken. Yes that is exactly what I do, I sit silent for a few moments each time I sit at the comp-each time before I take a bite of food etc. The Mrs. thinks I'm a freak with all of this "Staccato" behaviour.
So it looks like I'm on the path WOOHOO!
So in actual fact I'm probably practising all day long.. Interesting concept.
You cannot stop off the path. Your life is the path. You can no more hinder Enlightenment than stop the rain. Realising this though - that takes practice. :winkc:
Enlightenment is like the moon reflected on the water. The moon does not get wet, nor is the water broken. Although its light is wide and great, the moon is reflected even in a puddle an inch wide. The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in dewdrops on the grass, or even in one drop of water.
Enlightenment does not divide you, just as the moon does not break the water. You cannot hinder enlightenment, just as a drop of water does not hinder the moon in the sky. The depth of the drop is the height of the moon. Each reflection, however long or short its duration, manifests the vastness of the dewdrop, and realizes the limitlessness of the moonlight in the sky...
- Ehei Dogen - From 'Moon in a Dewdrop: Writings of Zen Master Dogen'
Each reflection, however long or short its duration, manifests the vastness of the dewdrop, and realizes the limitlessness of the moonlight in the sky
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited January 2006
I was going to say the same thing...
TNH gives much good advice ('The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching') on how to address our loved one at given moments, but I think if I were to speak to Nick in that way, he'd dial the funny farm right away...
(Strange that he hasn't yet done so.....!)
The wonderful thing about Following the Path, is that you can do it your way, in your own method, in your own time, to suit you... that is to say, each and every person who follows the Path is different and unique. so learning and practising are done in a unique and personal way. With everyone else to help us along (and we in turn helping others) this is what it's about. Walking together, but individually.
Nice - if I may say so - to see this thread still being useful.....
Xrayman,
Rev. Genryu gives some good advice. I developed a bit of my practice while I was off from work for almost a year. So by the time I went back, it was partially engrained. Now, if I miss a day, I can tell right away. The next day I'm grumpier than usual.
Another thing that if the Rev. didn't say or if he did it won't hurt but being consistent. Five minutes a day of consistent meditation is better than 2 hours at one time per month. You can build from that. I've found that I'm kind of getting hooked on it. Initially, I was doing it as my teacher told me to. Now, I am to the point that it's fun to see what happens daily. I used to do a fair amount of hallucinogens and meditation has it beat hands down. I don't advocate doing hallucinogens anymore, though. So give it a try and see what happens. The worst thing that could happen is that oxygen saturation would become
100%.
Nicely put Jerbear. The only reason I didn't stress consistency is that at the point where one is working with resistance that is strong enough to make sitting for one minute at a time a viable proposition in terms of practice, what really matters is just today, just doing that today, this moment, now. Tomorrow is then an abstraction. But your point is a good one and yes, consistency helps and I certainly don't want to give the impression that it doesn't matter.
Dogen was a consumate poet even in his prose at times and "painting verse" would set his words off very well, it's a good way to put it. There was a book bought out some years ago and now out of print, by the Zen Center of Los Angeles, of Dogen's Genjokoan with beautiful illustrations/photographs. Someone should do another
Well Genryu, I will get going on the first one and post it at its completion...it doesn't usually take too long. Once I get started on a painting, I am 'attched' to it until it's done!
There was a book bought out some years ago and now out of print, by the Zen Center of Los Angeles, of Dogen's Genjokoan with beautiful illustrations/photographs. Someone should do another..
Ah, ZCLA! My girlfriend used to go there. Maezumi Roshi really liked her. He would call her up all the time—he said she was enlightened. It broke her heart when he confessed to being an alcoholic. I think like most gifted teachers, their student's problems get to them.
At any rate, Dogen is a rather enigmatical character. There seems to be several Dogens at least religiously speaking. I don't know how many papers I have read on him at the theology library.
Anyway, I just came across this recently. It might be of interest to you.
Despite the claim in Eihei koroku no. 1.48 that Dogen returned form China “empty-handed” (kûshu genkyo), the “Shari sôdenki” indicates that he returned with the relics of Myozen, which were given away to a lay female disciple before Dogen’s arrival in Kyoto (DZZ III, p. 34 and DZZ VI, pp. 216–18). However, as William Bodiford has pointed out to me, the shisho document supposedly given to Dogen by Ju-ching and now designated a national treasure by the Japanese government most certainly is a medieval forgery (Steven Heine, Japanese Journal of Religious studies 30.102 [Spring 2003], p. 32)
Until You Yawned, esteemed Monk of Zen Buddhism, You were really energizing me to work harder at meditating. You make it sound like every moment is so darned important, and you really get me enthused.
Please go and hide next time you have to yawn (Yawning is so darned contagious, ya know...). When I'm at a party, I generally go into the bathroom for my yawning fits.
Rev. Genryu,
Don't hang out in bathrooms. People could get the wrong idea and smear your good name on NB.com.
Reminds me of a first visit to our shores by a gay USian friend. He got quite agitated when I suggested that we go and see the Spencer paintings in Cookham, because there was a good tea-room in the village!
Oh don't - I go hot and cold remembering the times I have put my size 8 in it over the pond. Using the English slang for a cigarette got me some very odd looks in Boston - Let's go outside, I am dying for a fag!'
and the lady in the stationery shop wasn't amused when I asked for rubbers instead of erasers.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited January 2006
Sometimes you think you're using 'Right Speech' but even with 'Right Intention'....
I am reliably informed that sellotape in Australia, is called 'Durex'..... the mind boggles.....!
Comments
Doesn't time fly? A salutary lesson then, that every day is one day less....
THis week the 'theme' from the Eightfold Path has been 'Right Action', insofar as examination and experience of the Path has been undertaken in this thread...
I'm in no way suggesting this should become a public confessions box, but would anyone like to come in with an experience of the past week, they feel might be a good example of having adhered to - or otherwise! - this particular 'Spoke of the Wheel'?
French Administration is extremely frustrating.
When you're employed in France, you are ascribed a specific social security number, that stays with you always, but for each employer, there is a different Health insurance Company. When you stop working for one employer, you either adopt the health Insurance company of your new subsequent employer, or stay covered by the previous one while you supposedly receive unemployment benefit, and until you find a new job. Then, you're swapped.
It's a complex, lenghty administrative procedure still done with paper forms and pen-pushing.... the French haven't completely accepted computers or their trustworthyness, so you can have no idea how much paperwork, and how many photocopies and forms have been involved so far.
Well, I'm now informed, for the first time in six years, that I have to provide a translation of an English Birth Certificate. Nobody has ever demanded this before. It's never happened, nor been asked of me.
It has to be an official translation, carried out by a government-approved translator, complete with official stamp (of course!) and I can't afford fifty Euros to have this done. So the health Department is getting it done - no problem; but it will delay our request for inscription into the correct health scheme by around three months, maximum....
Well, I'm listening to all of this datribe going on infront of me, on the 'phone, as the guy is listening to all of this and relaying it back to me, and I'm reaching for the revolver....
So then I stop and realise: Let go. Just relax your Mind. Think the Right Thing. Say the Right Thing. Do the Right Thing....
It's so easy to resist and to want to fight the system. It's so clear to see how wrong, tangled up and obstructive it is. It's so easy to be obstinate, and dig the heels in, and argue, "Why Now? Why never before, in all this time? Why do I have to suddenly do this NOW?!?"
It was much harder than I thought it would be, to 'let Go'. But the very fact that the idea of doing so popped into my head, for me, is a sign that my Mind-frame is evolving.
So I found myself relaxing.... from the head down.... I released my neck and shoulders, just 'dropped' them and let them soften.... I sat up, in composure. I uncrossed my legs, and placed my feet gently on the floor, about two inches apart. I quietly folded my hands in my lap, and permitted the hint of a smile to rise from within and place itself on my lips. And I waited for him to finish on the phone.
Then I strangled him.
No!! Just kidding!!
He explained to me that it was just like it was. This is the way it had to be.
And in this case, to resist or argue would have been just :banghead:
So it is that I must submit other paperwork to help them in their translation. And so it is that I have to replace paperwork they've also mislaid. So it is, so it is, so it is....
My 'Right Action' didn't actually involve doing something. it involved NOT doing something. Resisting, arguing, getting mad to no avail....
My Right Action involved relaxing, and 'letting Go'....
My Right Action' involved Doing Nothing at All.....:type:
Does what we do tie in with what we believe, and what we practise?
What is our opinion of certain Businesses that blatantly seem to go against 'Right Everything'? (For example, designing and creating weapons of any kind, raising animals just to kill them for their fur,) and what about jobs which are borderline? What would you say they are, and how do you feel about them? Do you try to implement the Eightfold Path during your period of work? I remember Dawn&Mike asking the other members how they could best do this, and more recently, Jerbear has spoken of the difficulties he faces at work, trying to juggle what he believes with what his duties are.....
THis week, as we walk, cycle, drive or bus to work, let's try to start the day with 'Right Everything' and end it with 'How did I do today?' Not judgementally, but as pure observation.... and come in, join in, exchange and engage....!!
I haven't worked yet this week but I'm working Wed & Thur night, so I can post on Fri. I'm sure something interesting will come up. It always does.
my job has me constantly at odds with or rather constantly forces me to remember my practice and the path almost every moment of every day. as far as things involved that go against my beliefs, the massive consumption of fossil fuels, (and everything that goes on behind the scenes because of this ie. wars, killing, greed, hatred, delusion) all in the name of oil which is used to produce gas and deisel, not to mention the pollution caused by the burning of fossil fuels, or the devastation to the environment by spills when transporting these fuels. then there is the aspect of driving and road rage and uneducated or inattentive drivers, and always having to "stop" , remember the breath, calm myself, remember my practices, focus, stay proffessional and do not get tempted to retaliate when put in difficult situations. i also constantly battle within myself about how what i do keeps me away from my wife and children, all in the pursuit of material things, i was on the road when my son passed away last year. sorry for being so long winded but this shall be my little contribution for know, today is the american thanksgiving and i am sitting in a truck stop in virginia, once again away from my family (two weeks without a full day off) and working on my third. anyhow, constantly practicing and trying very hard to stay on the path.
joseph
And the days go inexorably by.....
We find ourselves in Week Six of our appraisal of the Eightfold Path...and we're at Right Effort.
I remember, in my dim and distant past, reading a book titled 'You can Heal your Life' by Louise Hay.... who amongst other things counselled or advised that people might like to stop using the term "Should" and exchange it for the word "Could". That would then assist in exposing the real reason why they don't do the things they felt guilty about not doing. For example, "I SHOULD write to my aunt..." which implies feeling guilty about not writing, and lays all the blame on your SHOULDers..... becomes "I COULD write to my aunt...." which probably then brings up the answer "....but I don't feel like it! I hardly ever see her anyway!" Which then allows you to tackle what the motivation & reward would actually be!
Yianla Vanzant echoed this 'should' sentiment many years later, by stating "Don't go 'Should-ing' on anybody!"
But Right Effort puts the "Should" into perspective - and right back where it belongs.
Right Effort is not something that 'should' weigh heavily on the Shoulders.... it 'could' weigh heavily on the shoulders, but it is an aspect of the Eightfold Path which we can embrace with Joy and Acceptance. It is the Drive, the Motivation, the Desire to stick to the Walk. It is what makes us bite our tongue to quell the hasty verbal retort. It is what makes us take a deep breath before reacting hastily to a situation usually guaranteed to ruin our day.....
A friend of mine, who went through a terrible time facing up to the death of a loved one, found her life spiralling out of control, and she began to drink heavily. One day, she chanced to pick up a book on Buddhism, and saw the line -
"Enlightenment takes Effort."
She typed this out in huge letters and stuck it on the mirror above her mantelpiece. And began to turn her life around......
Walking the Eightfold Path takes Effort.
Living Life daily, for some, is more of an Effort than for others.
But each step is one step further - one might even say closer - to that which we aspire to..... It has been said that 'it's more the Journey than the Destination', but no matter what it is that we're all doing, Right Effort is right there, amongst them all, glaring like an orange road signal......
We are going to start the Noble Eightfold path in "The Heart of the Buddha's Teachings" book forum (not club, since Oprah has clubs). Might be able to get things going over here too I hope for you.
As for Right Effort, this is another aspect of my work that I constantly struggle with. As you all know, I work as a nurse in medical intensive care. As already stated, I do follow doctor's orders whether I agree with them or not. There is always discussions about "code" status (end of life measures, mechanical life support, cpr and the like), what would the "patient" want vs the quality of life issues vs what does the family want. It can be quite mind boggling at the time.
Here's the rub. My personal ethical values sometimes have to be put aside to do what I may not think is in the best interest of the patient. Other nurse's and I have joked (ICU humor, please be not offended) about walking around the unit, having a cup of coffee, talking with our fellow nurse's then going and coding the patient if still alive. It helps relieve the stress of the situation. Codes are stressful. I was in one the other night and we were there for an hour, not less than 5 minutes like on your local tv show. The patient made it, but I found myself going into auto pilot mode. I sometimes just "do my job" unmindfully in order to do my job. This is one area that will be a struggle for me for a while I think. When you have someone's life in your hands, it's a scary prospect. But I still do all that I can if that's what the orders say. That is Right Effort in one way even though I may not agree.
So we shall begin with 'Right View' in the Book Thread....
and 'seeing' things with the benefit of TNH's wise words to guide us..!
I have a tremendous respect for people such as yourself who do the jobs most people either never think about, or simply take for granted.
And the one phrase I am always reminded of, is that before we assume the right to even offer an opinion on certain aspects of Life, we shoud 'walk a Mile' in that person's shoes....
I have been told by a friend in A & E, and another whose nursing 'speciality' is care for the Elderly, that 'hospital humour' can be macabre.... and I understand that at times, it's the only thing that can keep you sane.
But perhaps (and I am in no way implying criticism!) Right Effort also entails making every possible Effort to maintain the patient's dignity.
WE can never be completely sure how much a diagnosed comatose patient can actually absorb and hear.... there have been cases of recovering patients being able to repeat whole overheard conversations, when it was assumed that they were 'out for the count'.
And I can only presume that many vestiges of human dignity fly out of the window when a patient needs their sheets changed due to 'accidents'.... when they come to rely entirely on the assistance of others to perform even the most basic functions....
So even in this case, sometimes it pays to put ourselves in their shoes....
I am just thinking out loud here, Jerbear. I'm not being critical. Goodness knows you have more than enough to contend with, without someone like me spouting their two penn'orth at you.
I have absolutely no doubt that you understand completely where I'm coming from. And perhaps you're aware of Nursing & Medical Staff who are not as Mindful' as yourself.....
How do you cope or deal with them?
Jerbear, dear SanghaFriend,
You are asking the ultimate ethical question, aren't you? You follow the doctors' orders and are, at the same time, an individual with your own code of ethics and your personal responsibility. When I started to read this paragraph, I was put in mind of the dilemma of the soldier, for example, who obeys orders and then finds themselves compromised.
When we sat with patients dying of AIDS-related opportunistic infections, it seemed to me that we had to go onto "autopilot". During those hours, our own responsibility had to be transformed into a genuine responsiveness to the dying person's needs.
Most people, for most of the time, rarely have to face such extreme ethical dilemmas. It is hard to realise that there are no pat answers when we are faced with the real decisions.
As mentioned, I've joked to at the desk about things that I would never say in front of a patient. I have read that we don't know what a comatose patient hears. I don't know what they said to me when I was out for 36 days. But it doesn't mean it didn't register. I felt I got substandard care for an ICU. Not sure why either because the time I was awake was fine. Maybe things were said that I can't recall.
And in the past 8.5 years, I'm sure I've said something unthinking in front of a comatose patient. I really do try and see it from the patient's point of view, even more so since I've been the patient. My partner said on his side was a living hell until I woke up and recognized him. I realize that a family is looking at their loved one in a totally different way than I am. They see their mother/father/loved one as a part of their lives, not a patient with a diagnosis requiring critical care. Which is another way we must deal with it.
Thanks for listening to my thinking. I'm sure this will continute as long as I am an ICU nurse or I come to peace with it. That's what I'm hoping for.
The two threads are running parallel: TNH admits he's discussing the Eightfold Path out of their conventional order, but this is because he considers Mindfulness to be important, and highly pertinent for the others to be practised.....
For me, before reading this chapter, Mindfulness is just being in the moment, so that you're watching everything you do, before it arises and becomes a concrete thought or action..... But I will forbear from giving any further view on the subject, until I have fully read what the Master has to contribute....!
Federica,
Thanks, but I am no where near being a master at this yet. Maybe Simon or you are, but not me. Buddhafoot might think he is a master but it's not at this.
According to Bikkhu Bodhi, "Concentration represents an intensification of a mental factor present in every state of consciousness."
As one sage put it, "When am I NOT meditating?"
The question is, what role does meditation play in your Life? To what extent has it affected - or even changed - your Life?
1. It does quiet the monkey mind down. I just got back to meditating in the past few months. As I practice, the monkey mind starts swinging from tree to tree. When I realize it, I have to practice kindness to myself and bring my thoughts back to the breath. I think kindness towards oneself is the part of the antidote for the monkey mind. In meditation, it takes patience and discipline to get to one pointedness of mind. These can be taken out of our practice and put to use in the every day world.
2. Taking what I've learned in meditation and bringing it into the real world. That patience and discipline our wonderful tools in the everyday world. I've left the patience part of it out for too long. Meditation is teaching me how to be patient with me. And in turn I try to show that patience with others. I'm learning to look at others and realize they are suffering like me. In my job, it's easy to see as it is an environment that has a lot of sadness in it. But it is easy to become professionally distant and forget these are real people with real lives and not just a diagnosis with a code status.
Just my initial thoughts on the topic. Will post later on my thread after I read the chapter.
I try to devote at least a little time to meditation each day. Which mind you is difficult around my house. But even if I can't sit for a while I go out for a long walk, no matter the weather and just use that time to not only examine the past day but to run a kind of personal diagnostic.
There are other time I have used it to calm down, such as when my disabled Aunt is being difficult. I often have to try and see it from her point of view that I'm around half her age, but I'm also just trying to help.
My friend Josh got me this mini Zen garden for my birthday and I can sit with that thing transfixed for hours at a time. Sometimes I don't think about anything at all, but I always feel better afterward.
I find myself to be an erratic meditator....
I have no set period of the day, in which to meditate.... I have no definitive period of time, which I devote to it..... I am not that disciplined.
Some are, and I am happy for them. It is something that is recommended, in all walks and schools of Buddhism, and it is something I know I must address for myself, and improve upon.
But I DO meditate. Particularly if I find myself actually within a stressful moment.... Whatever is happening, however the situation is progressing, I find a second in which to stop. And bring my Mind Home. I re-centre. I focus. I empty my Mind of Thoughts and connect with the feeling. I AM.
This is when I most need that which I know. This is when I call upon it.
And it has sustained me during a very difficult year, and through some very trying moments.
There have been times during this year when I have touched upon despair, and even if, for a brief period I have succumbed to the pain of the Moment, I have worked through it and it has not lasted long.
Granted, I have the Love and Support of my wonderful Man, which I know is of primary importance to me....
But Bringing my Mind Home has been a Life- Saver.....
True it is, that without the Entire Eightfold Path, I would be a shadow of the person I am today..... and no matter how erratic, brief, and irregular my Meditation, It brings me to the centre, and lets me just Be.
Just cuz I'm excited about it, I won a Tibetan Buddhist altar on Ebay. It was easy as I was the only one that bid on it. Very nice. Once I get a picture up then I may take a picture of the altar. I figure ya'll want to know what I look like more than the altar. Brian has met me and found out I'm insane. LOL!
Mind you, it takes one to know one....!!
And I don't hate you - how could I possibly hate you?
Absence of regular meditation is a situation I need to redress for myself... If anyone is to be found wanting, it is I....
At least I do it occasionally, which is an improvement on onceuponatime, when I never even did it at all....!
Thank you for that cute smiley hug!
Let me encourage you to meditate. I really do get a lot out of it. Besides the quiet it affords me (Mike, my partner, dare not bother me during that time), it is also good discipline. One of the things we Westerners need a bit more of. I find that when I meditate regularly my wants decrease naturally. I am of the typical consumer mindset. But since my accident last year, my income has dropped dramatically. It used to bug me that I couldn't buy all I wanted. But through regular meditation, it seems to have died away.
It also makes me feel good about myself knowing that I am putting the effort towards my practice. It is something I can point to. Also, there are times that it is really cool to experience the quiet inside gained from it.
I'll stop now. I don't bug smokers this much as I am an ex-smoker and refuse to gripe at them.
Hey!
I resemble that remark.
Sorry dude, I'm not even a jack of all trades, much less a master at anything
-bf
You're my bud and that's all that matters to me.
I struggle to attain 2 hours a month! or is that because I'm "attached" to the concept of needing to practise?
Buddha said not to become attached, so maybe all is ok (no worries)
help me out Zen Monk HAHA
I really shouldn't. Especially since the Zen way is often to force someone up against their barriers, rather than giving hints as to a way through. But, what I would say, and reassuringly this will be of no help at all, is that first of all, it's ok to be attached to practice. You wouldn't go out without trousers on for example but that sort of 'attachment' stops you getting arrested, it's healthy. Well at least with your legs. So it's fine to be attached to practice in the sense that we do it.
One problem might be the idea of practice, as opposed to just doing it, and particularly the idea of meditation. Our ego resists stillness, resists silence. That's what it's there for. It can't maintain it's sovereignty if it didn't resist, because it is that resistance, and that's why it comes up so strongly with even the thought of meditation for many people. That's actually good news believe it or not, strong resistance is strong energy and leads to strong practice. Strong practice isn't necessarily measured in how many hours a day that you sit.
If you can start where you are, and say just bring your attention to your breathing and posture when you first sit down at your computer - then you are practicing every day and it's strong practice. Just that paying attention every day is already strong practice.There's nothing to add or take away from that. And if you go with that, then naturally your sitting will build, or not as the case may be. You won't get struck by lightning after all if you don't sit. So I'd say, just start there - one minute a day, and don't beat yourself up about not sitting, don't indulge the resistance by playing around with guilt and rationalisations - weak practice, strong practice, good practice, bad practice. Nonsense - just practice, or don't practice.
Be aware for a few moments of your breath, of your body, of how your mind is, in those few moments when you're waiting for your pc to boot up, or you're waiting in the checkout queue at the store - and you'll have already begun to transform resistance into stability. Then you'll see how you resist the simple fact that sitting does sitting, Zazen does Zazen.
So it looks like I'm on the path WOOHOO!
So in actual fact I'm probably practising all day long.. Interesting concept.
Enlightenment is like the moon reflected on the water. The moon does not get wet, nor is the water broken. Although its light is wide and great, the moon is reflected even in a puddle an inch wide. The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in dewdrops on the grass, or even in one drop of water.
Enlightenment does not divide you, just as the moon does not break the water. You cannot hinder enlightenment, just as a drop of water does not hinder the moon in the sky. The depth of the drop is the height of the moon. Each reflection, however long or short its duration, manifests the vastness of the dewdrop, and realizes the limitlessness of the moonlight in the sky...
- Ehei Dogen - From 'Moon in a Dewdrop: Writings of Zen Master Dogen'
Each reflection, however long or short its duration, manifests the vastness of the dewdrop, and realizes the limitlessness of the moonlight in the sky
TNH gives much good advice ('The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching') on how to address our loved one at given moments, but I think if I were to speak to Nick in that way, he'd dial the funny farm right away...
(Strange that he hasn't yet done so.....!)
The wonderful thing about Following the Path, is that you can do it your way, in your own method, in your own time, to suit you... that is to say, each and every person who follows the Path is different and unique. so learning and practising are done in a unique and personal way. With everyone else to help us along (and we in turn helping others) this is what it's about. Walking together, but individually.
Nice - if I may say so - to see this thread still being useful.....
Rev. Genryu gives some good advice. I developed a bit of my practice while I was off from work for almost a year. So by the time I went back, it was partially engrained. Now, if I miss a day, I can tell right away. The next day I'm grumpier than usual.
Another thing that if the Rev. didn't say or if he did it won't hurt but being consistent. Five minutes a day of consistent meditation is better than 2 hours at one time per month. You can build from that. I've found that I'm kind of getting hooked on it. Initially, I was doing it as my teacher told me to. Now, I am to the point that it's fun to see what happens daily. I used to do a fair amount of hallucinogens and meditation has it beat hands down. I don't advocate doing hallucinogens anymore, though. So give it a try and see what happens. The worst thing that could happen is that oxygen saturation would become
100%.
Ah, ZCLA! My girlfriend used to go there. Maezumi Roshi really liked her. He would call her up all the time—he said she was enlightened. It broke her heart when he confessed to being an alcoholic. I think like most gifted teachers, their student's problems get to them.
At any rate, Dogen is a rather enigmatical character. There seems to be several Dogens at least religiously speaking. I don't know how many papers I have read on him at the theology library.
Anyway, I just came across this recently. It might be of interest to you.
It's still morning so I'm not going to say LOL but SNIG instead.
:tonguec:
Please go and hide next time you have to yawn (Yawning is so darned contagious, ya know...). When I'm at a party, I generally go into the bathroom for my yawning fits.
THANKS, Everyone, for this great thread!
Don't hang out in bathrooms. People could get the wrong idea and smear your good name on NB.com.
Thanks for the idea.
edit: ber to bear
2nd edit: ber to bear actually
Reminds me of a first visit to our shores by a gay USian friend. He got quite agitated when I suggested that we go and see the Spencer paintings in Cookham, because there was a good tea-room in the village!
and the lady in the stationery shop wasn't amused when I asked for rubbers instead of erasers.
I am reliably informed that sellotape in Australia, is called 'Durex'..... the mind boggles.....!