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Has there been anyone in modern times who has reached enlightenment
hi
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It doesn't really matter.
Are you enlightened?
Work from that basis.....
Yes of course, but 'reached' is a bit of an odd word to indicate. Still, it happens.
Hope that helps.
And really, what does it matter, and what difference does it make to us? It's merely a distraction.
And such conjecture is a waste of time, when one could spend one's time better concentrating on more pressing matters, like our own progress....
I really do believe it's that simple.
Who's quibbling? Pointing out that there is no separate being which could achieve a separate enlightenment is far more productive than making an unverifiable list of people that may or may not be enlightened. There's no way to know. And we don't know all the people that have ever lived in modern times, so who knows how many people we've missed. It's silly. If you continue to think in terms of separateness you will not achieve enlightenment, hence my post.
I suppose it all depends on how one approaches the issue. The way it's presented in the Pali Canon, for example, awakening is definitely described as a goal to be reached through effort and heedfulness. From this perspective, the view that there's nothing to reach has the danger of leading to inaction, e.g., someone might think, "If there's nothing to reach, then why practice?" In my opinion, dropping our perception of self is something that's better done near the end of the path, after we've developed a stable foundation of virtue, concentration and discernment.
Would these have to be Buddhist —or even from some other Eastern tradition? I mean, might Shri Ramakrisna of Bengal, for instance, be included?
Also, what delineates "modern?" Aristotle used to refer to his times as "modern."
Might we be better served to have an actual timeline, say maybe after 1400 CE? After 1700 CE? After 1800 CE?
Many followers of Sanata Dharma believe that Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Sri Ramakrishna, to name a few, were Avatars (and therefore Enlightened).
That begs another question in my mind, does an Enlightened Being have to be an Avatar. I'd say no, even if it were due just to a matter of that person not so choosing to be a Bodhisattva-Maker.
I honestly don't know whether anyone in more recent times has achieved awakening, although Ajahn Boowa, of the Thai Forest Tradition, is thought by some to be an arahant (e.g., see his book, The Path to Arahantship). Ajahn Sao and Ajahn Mun, co-founders of the Thai Forest Tradition tradition, are also thought to have achieved awakening. Then there's Ajahn Chah, a student of Ajahn Mun, and Ajahn Fuang, a student of Ajahn Lee, etc.
It is not necessary to have the view I have presented. In fact, it's not necessary to have any view at all. If you feel you're not ready for it, then by all means put it to the side and take it up when you are. Or don't. My understanding of emptiness and non-separation has greatly increased my desire to practice.
I do agree.
No, of course not, not in the way you ask the question. In fact, throughout recorded history, there has never been anyone who has "reached enlightenment", including the Buddha.
Yes, of course there are, in the only way that matters.
I don't think time posting on a forum has anything to do with what level of realization. I don't think time spent trying to understand it has much to do with it, either. This isn't our first life. If I got to a certain understanding prior to this life I have an easier time than others. I'm not saying I have or did anything, I just mean in general. I think that I can learn from anyone, regardless of level of experience. I certainly think I can learn from more experienced buddhists, and I also think I can learn from people of any religions. My views don't lead me to inaction, and as such the problem he presented doesn't apply to me as of now. You are free to believe as you wish, as is he, as am I, as is anyone.
That's true, time spent posting on a forum shows how long one has spent time posting on that forum, nothing more.
We all understand what we understand and are ignorant of what we are ignorant of. To label someone as "wise" or "ignorant" is foolish, because what the person is is irrelevant, all that matters is the merit of each statement. You can learn profound truth from someone you may think is ignorant. You can hear foolishness from someone you may think is wise. Self-reliance is incredibly important, self-reliance while being open to learning from anyone you come into contact with.
Well, I suggested in my original response that we define "Modern Times", and I suggested Gopi Krishna as a candidate--someone from an Eastern tradition. I interpreted the question broadly--anyone anywhere in the world of any tradition. No, an Enlightened Being doesn't have to be an Avatar. (It would help to get some input and clarification from the OP.) Maybe, until we hear from the OP, we could define "Modern Times" as the beginning of the Industrial Age and thereafter...?
Bill, are you still with us?
I hope so. To me the idea of a world full of only darksome people would be very frightening. I also think that this is not a question to be summarily dismissed as unimportant. I find it to be a pragmatic question that might help pique somebody's desire to learn more about spiritual traditions of various types.
Yet, in this context, I cannot help but thinking also of many artists through the ages who by their poetry or prose fiction or paintings, sculptures, etc., etc, have left behind works that still radiate a pure revelation of unclouded seeing to us. Surely they had some very large moments of enlightenment themselves. Although reluctant to designate them as "enlightened beings," on the glimpses they seem to have had, I nonetheless revere their contributions from the same "pure ground" from which the enlightened beings seem to spring.
Some works of art, like say a koan, have, as it were, "a god in them" (en-theos, enthusiasm) that can lift us to a transcendent plane for a while as we are just gazing within ourselves upon them, our mental clouds lifted awhile.
Compassionate Warrior, so you think about 1700 CE, then? That's the beginning of the mechanistic/industrial age. But scholars say the modern era began 200 years earlier after the introduction in 1440 of the printing press by Gutenberg and culminating in the Protestant Reformation of the early 1500s.
That's ok by me. But...did everyone enter the Modern Era at the same time? Were some cultures ahead of others, or do we care? Are we going to say 1440 across the board? (A lot more ground to cover than if we start at 1700.) How does this work; do we vote, or do we let Bill call it? (Where is that dude, anyway?)
Well said, the 'We're already enlightened so we don't need to practice' is also another trap.
It's like the clear lens you may be looking through, without clarifying some of the muck we have accumulated, it is still sh*tty lens.
Metta,
Abu
The world has many awakened people in it. Most of them, you'll never hear of, as they quietly go about acting out of compassion. But Enlightenment? You can find them, if you look. They like publicity. The followers of the typical Guru type figure call their leader enlightened, and if you've heard one speak or read their books, they're impressive. The difference is, none of these great Enlightened Guru people have managed to teach their followers anything but how to worship. Thus, when the Guru dies, the group dies with him.
The Buddha, upon his awakening, taught his followers and established the Sangha to continue teaching us the Noble Truths and 8-fold Path. Look what a difference one awakened man made in the world versus the tiny effect of dozens of Enlightened Gurus then and now.
And while we, especially in Zen rightfully point out that enlightenment is not a goal and there is nothing to reach out there, it is in fact true that every one of us is hoping for something to happen in the future, to find the happiness we see and hear is possible. So we use language designed to treat it, whatever it is, as something separate and "out there". We can't help it. While it's proper to point out like the great Zen masters that there's nothing to find, that you're there and just have to open your eyes and look around, we still encourage the seeker to try harder, to not give up, that what you seek is just around the bend.
A man once vowed he'd walk in one direction until he saw the edge of the world before he died. So he began walking East, and when he came to water he built a boat and continued East until he came to land again. He encounted many strange people and things. A long, long time and many hardships later, he looked around one day and recognized the land around him. He realized that his long journey had taken him to where he started. He had gone nowhere, in the end. But, he was a changed man for having gone nowhere. His eyes were open to the true nature of the world.
So begin your journey to Enlightenment, the Edge of the World that is out there somewhere. We'll meet back here eventually, awakened instead, with lots of Zen stories to tell each other.
I guess you must have overlooked post #12.
Personally, I don't think it's possible to know for sure whether someone has achieved awakening (unless you have the ability to read their mind, that is), but I do think you can hazard a guess by observing their conduct and putting their teachings into practice.
Cinorjer, what a great post, every word of it! Thank you!
I think that the OP's question was simple and relevant. It is important to me that the teachers I follow have actually practiced what they teach and achieve the result of the practice. I personally don't think that enlightenment is so far away nor do I think it is limited to Buddhism. I certainly believe that Ramana Maharshi, Ramakrishna, Sri Sri Chandrashekarendra Sarasvati, Karmapa, the Dalai Lama, Dudjom Rinpoche and others have attained the goal and spent their lives teaching others to realize the same thing with great success. Some may say that this is simply speculation and I don't really care to argue with anyone about it. Personally, I feel that our own buddha nature resonates with the presence of enlightened masters and we can recognize them when we are in their presence. YMMV.
Is it natural to not get angry, is it natural to not be afraid? Maybe as natural as it is for a kick boxer to break a baseball bat with their chin. That happens by conditioning the nerves on that area with pain, to thicken and eventually be tougher than normal.
I have read over 50 books about Buddha, Buddhism and Tibet, but it is many years of going to Temple that made a real difference in my Life. Christianity does not teach enlightenment, Buddhism does; I caught my first glimpse of enlightenment under the tutelage of a visionary Thai-Lao monk Piyapong Yusaef, I would meditate sometimes for three hours without hardly moving, ever since then I practically never experience what I would call suffering, I even did some time in jail, with out loseing my peace of mind, to not suffer is to look on the bright side of things and not dwell on the negative........
sincerely John:)
It doesn't matter. It's gone and in the past......
I would think it's worse if someone loses a piece of Mind....
Welcome to the forum, FMJohn.....;)
There are Tibetan tales on this theme, where the practitioner of pure heart recognizes the Bodhisattva by the road, and receives enlightenment himself, while the less realized practitioner sees only a rabid, mangy old dog, for example. How would be know if the hotel maid is a Bodhisattva or not, if we don't talk to her and get to know her? Or the school janitor, or the massage therapist? It could be anyone. Think back through your life experience; is there anyone from humble origins you might have passed by, whose demeanor may have been kindly and gentle, or who may have been a community organizer in their private life, any nurses or doctors who caught your attention for a moment because of their unusual dedication? The OP's question is a good one to inspire reflection.
I was riding the bus once in Berkeley, CA, and there were some rowdy kids who were talking loudly about the mayhem they were going to wreak over the weekend. (We're talking serious crime.) And the driver was talking to them, talking on their level but in a heart-centered way, and working on convincing them to not cause any trouble or any problems for themselves. After they got off the bus, I said to the bus driver, "WOW! That was impressive!" And he said, that's what you have to do these days; you have to be a social worker as well as a bus driver.
I've never seen anything like that anywhere in the US or any other country; most transit workers just watch the road, ignore rowdy kids, and probably count the hours and minutes until their shift ends and they can go home. This driver took those kids under his wing as if they were his own, and may have deterred crime as well. I had the impression he spent a good part of his shift fairly often trouble-shooting situations that arose, almost as if it were his mission in life. He saw his job as much more encompassing than just driving the bus like a robot. And he had a gift for relating to difficult people.
So, maybe we can add "Berkeley busdriver" to the list....? (And what about those Kalahari Bushmen healers I mentioned in the beginning?) Stories, anyone?
Yes.
Buddha does not heal people with supernatrual powers.
If you want to boil it down, you can say also claim you believe in Jesus' resurrection because there is a book who says it it was so. Question everything. It's the only way to get to the truth.
True, but for example we can see how that the way the Buddha described things fit reality. All things are temporary, they are without inherent existence, the emotions we have also are divided by suffering. Loving-kindness does defeat hatefulness, compassion does defeat cruelty, equanimity defeats fear, and sympathetic joy does defeat envy.
The Dharma the Buddha preached fits reality. It works.
I hold no more reverence to Buddha than I do to any other human being. He's not even in front of me, I've never met him
That's also why, I don't subscribe to all of buddhism because some of it makes sense to me. I have still to find a good reason to believe in karma and rebirth, for example.
She lived from 1901 to 1991; while she's not currently alive, I imagine her story would be of interest to you.
Enlightenment happens.
Buddha bless,
Conrad.
His Holiness the Dalai Lama is a living role model for the boundless compassion we endeavor to cultivate as Buddhist practitioners. He likely has awakened to some extent, but at least IMHO he doesn't need to be enlightened to be looked up to in this world. His speech and actions are enough.