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Has there been anyone in modern times who has reached enlightenment
Well if that's what you want to think. All that being enlightened is... is letting go. No longer grasping, no longer clinging, seeing everything as a transitory cloud. It's complete peace, and that's what people want, peace. The only reason there's unrest is in not having clarity, taking things to be self or permanent, craving.
That's only part of it, the side effect to that is a release of all sorts of powerful potentials, powers of perception, ect. All the spiritual traditions of the East list various powers or iddhis and siddhis that become available to a being who has truly extinguished craving from their system. They have powers of perception that transcend the normal populace as a side effect of deep insight into the nature of things and themselves. They use these powers to help people come closer to the truth of things.
All the spiritual traditions of the East list various powers or iddhis and siddhis that become available to a being who has truly extinguished craving from their system. They have powers of perception that transcend the normal populace as a side effect of deep insight into the nature of things and themselves. They use these powers to help people come closer to the truth of things.
That would make them special, alright. But then there are the more ordinary ones like C_W was talking about; the school janitor, the bus driver, the nurse, the gifted schoolteacher, etc., who devote themselves to others in their own way. For that matter, some of the people who've taken the Bodhisattva Vow and are official Bodhisattvas, are pretty ordinary people.
All the spiritual traditions of the East list various powers or iddhis and siddhis that become available to a being who has truly extinguished craving from their system. They have powers of perception that transcend the normal populace as a side effect of deep insight into the nature of things and themselves. They use these powers to help people come closer to the truth of things.
That would make them special, alright. But then there are the more ordinary ones like C_W was talking about; the school janitor, the bus driver, the nurse, the gifted schoolteacher, etc., who devote themselves to others in their own way. For that matter, some of the people who've taken the Bodhisattva Vow and are official Bodhisattvas, are pretty ordinary people.
Outwardly, yes... but internally, they are quite special.
That's only part of it, the side effect to that is a release of all sorts of powerful potentials, powers of perception, ect. All the spiritual traditions of the East list various powers or iddhis and siddhis that become available to a being who has truly extinguished craving from their system. They have powers of perception that transcend the normal populace as a side effect of deep insight into the nature of things and themselves. They use these powers to help people come closer to the truth of things.
When asked about magical powers, the famous Zen master layman Pang said, Yes, carrying water, chopping wood.
Those who think enlightenment is a state to be achieved haven't understood what Layman Pang said. I would add "who do is it that has magical powers?" Magical things happen all the time, but if you think of it is something that you can control or own then they go. This is the same with enlightenment, it is the world that becomes enlightened, we just need to get out of the way. I like the example of the great saint outside of a religious context, just be driving the bus. I am glad you acknowledged him or her.
I'm not so much talking about magic, it's more like science of mind, and perception. The things they do may seem like magic, but it's really just reflective of the ability to see through things, and have non-distracted focus at any moment, this grants the mind incredible power.
I don't like the word, "magic". I think a lot of what's taken for "magic" is a scientific discovery waiting to happen.
Exactly, I think that the powers of perception and body of a Buddha arises naturally due to a lack of self craving, as craving for fulfillment through the senses clouds the mind and knots up the energy in the body. A Buddha being released from such limitations, ceases to have these stipulations in awareness, thus these so called "magical" powers arise naturally due to a Buddhas ability to see directly the nature of things instead of the subjective view of things which a bound being is jailed by. These so called "magical" powers are really just abilities that arise through a mind that knows how things work on a deeper level than the vast majority of humanity.
I like the way you put it... it's basically a yogic, scientific discovery, LOL!
Enlightenment. Is it something achieved or something to be realized.
If you are asking this question, then you are not enlightened yet. I am waiting for some one on this forum to reach nirvana and share his/her experience with us. If some day, I have freed myself from samsara, I will ask lincoln to put Arahant under my name instead of member.
I think there's a paradox in what you're saying, hermitwin. Unless you were joking. If 'you' actually will one day 'become' an arahant, you would not ask for that.
Maybe an enlightened hermitwin would not ask for that. I just think it would be great to tell the world that I am enlightened and you can ask me any question you like.
That's only part of it, the side effect to that is a release of all sorts of powerful potentials, powers of perception, ect. All the spiritual traditions of the East list various powers or iddhis and siddhis that become available to a being who has truly extinguished craving from their system. They have powers of perception that transcend the normal populace as a side effect of deep insight into the nature of things and themselves. They use these powers to help people come closer to the truth of things.
Yes, personally I'm looking forward to being able to shoot laser beams from my eyes, and see under girl's clothes...
Yes, personally I'm looking forward to being able to shoot laser beams from my eyes, and see under girl's clothes...
HAHA!! LOL~~ I can already do that and I'm not fully enlightened yet... obviously. LMAO!! I can go one step further and make them just take it off with my eyes... haha
We couldn't prove anyone on the list was enlightened, and anyone on the list that claimed it would likely not be (because of the claim). It just comes down to conceit; self-view.
Hi Cloud,
I think an enlightened being is capable of claiming their enlightenment to others if it spontaneously occurs. Of course in this case there is actually no-one claiming to be enlightened so this then agrees with your statement. So I think your statement above is neither correct nor incorrect
In the spirit of fun, WK ===================== PS: Congrats on the moderation!
Maybe an enlightened hermitwin would not ask for that. I just think it would be great to tell the world that I am enlightened and you can ask me any question you like.
I suspect that an enlightened being, with the desire to help others, will avoid complications that work against their spontaneous goal. Claiming to be enlightened (even if true) is quite likely to attract obstacles to their work and if this was the case they would not, effortlessly, claim enlightenment. But who can talk about this stuff with any degree of certainty?
Applogies to Monty Python...it is not about asceticism, so it would seem that there is nothing about modern times which would stop people from reaching this goal, but this...
HERMIT: Tell them to stop it. I hadn't said a word for eighteen years till he came along. FOLLOWERS: A miracle! He is the Enlightened One!... Hail the Enlightened One! SIDART: I'm not the Enlightened One! ANANDA: I say You are, your Holiness, and I should know. I've followed a few. FOLLOWERS: Hail Enlightened One! SYDART: I'm not the Enlightened One! Will you please listen? I am not the Enlightened One, do you understand?! Honestly! GIRL: Only the true Enlightened One denies His Nibhanna. SYDART: What?! Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right! I am the Enlightened One! FOLLOWERS: He is! He is the Enlightened One!
I don't like the word, "magic". I think a lot of what's taken for "magic" is a scientific discovery waiting to happen.
I like this Dakini, for whatever is possible and occurs is therefore natural, and if science continues its exploration into nature then it will one day have understanding of these processes.
is being free from the 10 fetters the only requisite for being a buddha? what if someone, through tests and analysis, concludes that the 10 fetters are broken... but doesn't feel "in" nirvāna?
Tests and analysis? "In" Nirvana? There's no place called Nirvana, Nirvana is literally the letting go of craving and attachment through clear discernment of reality. That's all. Understanding is the key to freedom, which requires some work since ignorance has conditioned us to see in all the wrong ways. If one thinks the fetters are broken but haven't found that freedom, then they're not really broken at all. It would be a state of delusion. Of course take that as you will, I'm no teacher.
Enlightenment is no big special thing. In-fact it is the most normal thing with in manifestation. The egoic mind looks for complicated answers. But the truth of it is its not complicated at all. It simply just is. There are people waking up all the time. It goes unnoticed like an individual leaf that upon a tree that stands still while the the rest are shaken, caressed by the wind. Self realization is nothing sacred, it is nothing holy. It simply just is. There is no way to prove one is enlightened. Only the enlightened fully recognize the enlightened.
If in modern times –with an exploding human population –Buddhism has not produced any significant number of enlightenments, Buddhism is worthless and we are a bunch of losers.
So I would like to suggest we bring the Buddha back to human proportions, and at the same time we revalue our ordinary human experience as the life of Buddha’s and Patriarchs.
My dog never declared his awakening. I think he has reach enlightenment in modern times. By his perfect conduct, he teaches me without talking. He is a voracious eater, though. He never has enough no matter how much I feed him but never complains if I don't serve him dinner. That shows he has no craving.
If in modern times –with an exploding human population –Buddhism has not produced any significant number of enlightenments, Buddhism is worthless and we are a bunch of losers.
So I would like to suggest we bring the Buddha back to human proportions, and at the same time we revalue our ordinary human experience as the life of Buddha’s and Patriarchs.
Enlightenment is here and now. :cool:
Many Buddhists have been gaing Enlightenment. At first, I was a little taken aback to learm that most of them belong to small groups headed by an Enlightened Guru.Perhaps these small groups have small centres for meditation and do not really go all out to look for members or finance.Perhaps they are contented with what they have.They have no desire to go out to look for money to build large centers or look for more members to make their Gurus popular. Large groups have many members under a Guru.But then, the majority is not always better than the minority.A real Buddhist always emphasizes Wisdom, Samadhi and Realization. He does not care about money or comfortable conditions.Perhaps having large centres and a large following is not important as the purpose of Buddhism is not for fighting.For fighting the majority could be an advantage.
We have six Enlightened members in our group.I am not one of them.
I have met a lot of people who have gained a great deal of benefit in their lives through the practice of Vipassana. I have also met a lot of people in this tradition (Goenka's version of it) who are chasing enlightenment and it is my belief that they are just using the same mental process that creates ambition and competition in other areas of life.
It is not so much that you are already enlightened and don't know it so much as it is that the knower is an illusion just a stream of thoughts. The Buddhist convert tunes into a different thought stream which now includes ideas of a spiritual'goal'and behaving in way that doesn't harm others.
This is generally a good thing for a human being unless they become a holier than thou pain in the arse as many do,but still ignorance because it leads back to the idea that there is someone choosing to do something for some kind of gain.
It leads to the idea that there is a chooser. If there was a chooser then you could choose your next thought, enlightenment is the seeing(experiencing) of the truth that you never did anything. We are not guilty your honor we take no pride in anything. But here right now there is presence that's the only truth stay with it
Recollecting the original question, with thanks to the one who posed it, I have abundant faith or confidence all beings are charged with the possibility of enlightenment. I have also heard there are methods or procedures for determining its presence. What is telling to me, however, is that in those instances it is (as one example) Arahants who test those inclined to declare in that path. I am not one of either of those. Tester or tested. Similarly, it is written by scholars of such as Paccekabuddhas or Pratyekabuddhas, who claims enlightenment in this vehicle must present to a Samyaksambuddha (ie. one perfectly enlightened). Poor pity the Samyaksambuddha. To whom do they appeal? As for me, I only have practice. In guarded moments there is brief peace. Pleasant feelings. Still interruptions occur. I return to the breath, or huatou, or even the ten recitations and begin again; and again. Impermanence. The rest I leave in the minds, hearts and hands of those who would know it if they saw it. When those do, I will not be polled or consulted, though, I am relieved to say. Only my opinion is expressed (and I am often not correct in the minds of so many). Many blessings,
Finally watched this video, and some things were worth noting!
- You can't grasp who you are through "thought". - You don't lose your personality. - You meet yourself and drop all the nonsense! - You realize that everything you thought was true was actually a dream. [...] A mental, conceptual dream of form. - It's the "I" figuring itself out. - Anything is possible.
All these ordinary people, talking about their experience, when will we all come to understand that enlightenment isn't special, isn't hard or out-of-reach for ordinary people?
Being wide awake and seeing reality for what it is, is not difficult. Maybe going all the way is, completely detaching from all of the fetters, or at least "time consuming", but you can wake up in a snap. Don't cling so tightly, find the middle, observe what is there, be honest with yourself. Wake up.
Comments
Those who think enlightenment is a state to be achieved haven't understood what Layman Pang said. I would add "who do is it that has magical powers?" Magical things happen all the time, but if you think of it is something that you can control or own then they go. This is the same with enlightenment, it is the world that becomes enlightened, we just need to get out of the way. I like the example of the great saint outside of a religious context, just be driving the bus. I am glad you acknowledged him or her.
I like the way you put it... it's basically a yogic, scientific discovery, LOL!
If you are asking this question, then you are not enlightened yet.
I am waiting for some one on this forum to reach nirvana and share his/her
experience with us. If some day, I have freed myself from samsara, I will ask
lincoln to put Arahant under my name instead of member.
If 'you' actually will one day 'become' an arahant, you would not ask for that.
I think an enlightened being is capable of claiming their enlightenment to others if it spontaneously occurs. Of course in this case there is actually no-one claiming to be enlightened so this then agrees with your statement. So I think your statement above is neither correct nor incorrect
In the spirit of fun,
WK
=====================
PS: Congrats on the moderation!
Are we there yet,
WK
HERMIT: Tell them to stop it. I hadn't said a word for eighteen years till he came along.
FOLLOWERS:
A miracle! He is the Enlightened One!... Hail the Enlightened One!
SIDART:
I'm not the Enlightened One!
ANANDA:
I say You are, your Holiness, and I should know. I've followed a few.
FOLLOWERS:
Hail Enlightened One!
SYDART:
I'm not the Enlightened One! Will you please listen? I am not the Enlightened One, do you understand?! Honestly!
GIRL:
Only the true Enlightened One denies His Nibhanna.
SYDART:
What?! Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right! I am the Enlightened One!
FOLLOWERS:
He is! He is the Enlightened One!
It can only bring trouble...best to forget it ...
what if someone, through tests and analysis, concludes that the 10 fetters are broken... but doesn't feel "in" nirvāna?
So I would like to suggest we bring the Buddha back to human proportions, and at the same time we revalue our ordinary human experience as the life of Buddha’s and Patriarchs.
Enlightenment is here and now.
:cool:
:sawed: :banghead: :dunce:
Large groups have many members under a Guru.But then, the majority is not always better than the minority.A real Buddhist always emphasizes Wisdom, Samadhi and Realization. He does not care about money or comfortable conditions.Perhaps having large centres and a large following is not important as the purpose of Buddhism is not for fighting.For fighting the majority could be an advantage.
We have six Enlightened members in our group.I am not one of them.
Probably all 'just' stream entrants / Bodhisattva (whatever you wish to call it) at least it is something to strive for. The one with the enlightened mind. Ajahn Maha Boowa for example decided to claim his enlightenment, albeit against the monastic rules to do so.
Sabre :vimp:
It is not so much that you are already enlightened and don't know it so much as it is that the knower is an illusion just a stream of thoughts. The Buddhist convert tunes into a different thought stream which now includes ideas of a spiritual'goal'and behaving in way that doesn't harm others.
This is generally a good thing for a human being unless they become a holier than thou pain in the arse as many do,but still ignorance because it leads back to the idea that there is someone choosing to do something for some kind of gain.
It leads to the idea that there is a chooser. If there was a chooser then you could choose your next thought, enlightenment is the seeing(experiencing) of the truth that you never did anything. We are not guilty your honor we take no pride in anything. But here right now there is presence that's the only truth stay with it
Deepak, please tell us more about these 6.
I have also heard there are methods or procedures for determining its presence. What is telling to me, however, is that in those instances it is (as one example) Arahants who test those inclined to declare in that path. I am not one of either of those. Tester or tested.
Similarly, it is written by scholars of such as Paccekabuddhas or Pratyekabuddhas, who claims enlightenment in this vehicle must present to a Samyaksambuddha (ie. one perfectly enlightened).
Poor pity the Samyaksambuddha. To whom do they appeal?
As for me, I only have practice. In guarded moments there is brief peace. Pleasant feelings. Still interruptions occur. I return to the breath, or huatou, or even the ten recitations and begin again; and again. Impermanence.
The rest I leave in the minds, hearts and hands of those who would know it if they saw it. When those do, I will not be polled or consulted, though, I am relieved to say.
Only my opinion is expressed (and I am often not correct in the minds of so many).
Many blessings,
- You can't grasp who you are through "thought".
- You don't lose your personality.
- You meet yourself and drop all the nonsense!
- You realize that everything you thought was true was actually a dream. [...] A mental, conceptual dream of form.
- It's the "I" figuring itself out.
- Anything is possible.
All these ordinary people, talking about their experience, when will we all come to understand that enlightenment isn't special, isn't hard or out-of-reach for ordinary people?
Being wide awake and seeing reality for what it is, is not difficult. Maybe going all the way is, completely detaching from all of the fetters, or at least "time consuming", but you can wake up in a snap. Don't cling so tightly, find the middle, observe what is there, be honest with yourself. Wake up.
Namaste