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Has there been anyone in modern times who has reached enlightenment
Too many folks over estimate "enlightenment". Enlightenment is simply comprehending reality in a way that results in the mind finding peace & acceptance of reality.
There is the BIG enlightenment of the Buddha, with all of his jhanas, etc, but there is also the small enlightenment, which the Buddha praised immensely.
The Buddha compared the suffering found in small enlightenment to a fingertip of soil in comparison to the great earth.
The Buddha started the path to enlightenment with comprehending IMPERMANENCE rather than not-self, emptiness, etc
The Buddha said by developing the perception of impermanence (anicca sanna), the conceit "I" is abandoned.
so, what will be the four stages? is anagami half-jackpot?
According to Mahayana, a fully enlightened being can project endless mind/body activities into Samsara for the sake of helping others. As the question of rebirth and birth are for those that don't have the full experience of emptiness, and are still tied by a dualistic comprehension of realities.
When did Buddha say this;"The Buddha compared the suffering found in small enlightenment to a fingertip of soil in comparison to the great earth. "?
Too many folks over estimate "enlightenment". Enlightenment is simply comprehending reality in a way that results in the mind finding peace & acceptance of reality.
There is the BIG enlightenment of the Buddha, with all of his jhanas, etc, but there is also the small enlightenment, which the Buddha praised immensely.
The Buddha compared the suffering found in small enlightenment to a fingertip of soil in comparison to the great earth.
The Buddha started the path to enlightenment with comprehending IMPERMANENCE rather than not-self, emptiness, etc
The Buddha said by developing the perception of impermanence (anicca sanna), the conceit "I" is abandoned.
Just that this description of Arhat has to do with the outer view. The inner view is that if one is free from birth and death, one can manifest birth and death to help others endlessly without actually being caught up in it. It's like watching a movie and controlling the main character from outside of it rather than being in the movie, all caught up in it's identity.
The term enlightenment is very misleading. It points towards a single ultimate state. That's not actually the case in reality. What actually arises are realisation's. Different people have different realisation's, and some have deeper and more numerous realisation's than others. Not including myself, i personally know three people who have had deep realisation's. One has written two books on enlightenment, and the other two have even deeper realisation than he or i. Realised people are quite numerous.
enlightenment is a westernization, it isn't really consistent with the concept of anatta. who or what gets enlightened? where's and who's the source of light?
in Zen, there's satori... gradual realizations, and in the end the final realization (nirvana).
Yeah i agree. I personally know people who have realised no self but not non duality (common to vipassana). One who has realised non duality but not no self (apparently common to advaita practicioners). And i've realised both, but not profound emptiness.
Well, we might need to define "enlightenment" in order to answer the question. But Gopi Krishna is undoubtedly one, IMO. Through his experience with Kundalini, he reached a state of enlightenment, and then under UN sponsorship, travelled around the world speaking about how Kundalini is the evolutionary goal of mankind. The Kundalini energy is what the Tibetans call the "bliss state", it's what their tantric practices are aimed at activating. Gopi Krishna experienced it as a result of years of a regular meditation practice, but there are other methods. The Kalahari Bushmen healers access it by dancing and stamping their feet. Then they use the energy to heal illness in others. They're said by all the surrounding tribes to be the most powerful healers around. Sorry....I digress. So...are the Bushmen (San) healers enlightened? They certainly seem to live in a state of compassion and generosity. Or they did until most of their land was taken away and social problems set in. Oh well....digressing again. So...how are we going to define enlightenment? And "modern times" for that matter. (Do the Bushmen count?)
As a Buddhist, I cannot agree less. None of these "eastern" or "mystical" or "contemplative" traditions can lead to complete cessation. Only a teachings which contains the following can lead to cessation:
Suffering. Cause of Suffering. Cessation of Suffering. The Eightfold Path.
If these four are not in the teachings, then the teachings do not lead to awakening.
Careful - Fundamentalism can be a very dangerous thing.
Btw if anatta is realized, the no duality of subject and object would be implicit. Anatta is the realization of, in seeing just the seen, in hearing just the sound, effectively there is only manifestation without a seer seeing the seen. It is subtler than substantial non-dual realization as it does not subsume things to an inherent mind or awareness (such as, all things are the one awareness expressing itself as that) which is where advaita stops, but sees awareness as simply a label collating all self-luminous manifestations but is not itself a self-entity, not an ultimately existing singular entity.
However if only impersonality (no doer) is experienced, then one need not have realized non-dual.
@ xabir. Is that aen? Of course impersonality doesn't require non duality or annata. Many realise impersonality and progress no further. In regards to advaita, the realisation is that, it's all me. Annata goes further to realise that there is no me. Although i am it and it is me.
@ xabir. Is that aen? Of course impersonality doesn't require non duality or annata. Many realise impersonality and progress no further. In regards to advaita, the realisation is that, it's all me. Annata goes further to realise that there is no me. Although i am it and it is me.
conventionally speaking yes. And yes I am aen nice to see you here.
Just that this description of Arhat has to do with the outer view. The inner view is that if one is free from birth and death, one can manifest birth and death to help others endlessly without actually being caught up in it. It's like watching a movie and controlling the main character from outside of it rather than being in the movie, all caught up in it's identity.
Although I do feel that an experience such as reaching nirvana would be better if shared with every being...but this made me think...there must also be a very good reason why a Pacceka Buddha exists. Why not share this knowledge? I think this could be a good topic for another thread.
Although I do feel that an experience such as reaching nirvana would be better if shared with every being...but this made me think...there must also be a very good reason why a Pacceka Buddha exists. Why not share this knowledge? I think this could be a good topic for another thread.
Because they haven't learned the tools of expressing their innermost realization. Paccekabuddhas do not exist in this day and age since the coming of a Samyakasambuddha such as Gotama. But, just think about it... pre-Buddha, the written word was not very prominent, and pre-Buddha, so much that is a normal part of life and communication at this time was not existent. So, basically, Paccekabuddhas as the Buddha said, only exist prier to the coming of a Samyakasambuddha and the age that such a teaching still has existence in a mainstream sense.
enlightenment is just your mind. what is it you expect people to reach? and regardless, I still deal with people that seem intent on making life difficult to the best of their ability.
@Vajraheart, Private Buddhas exist even today. They are those who come to the truth without guidance from the age-Buddha (Siddhartha Gautama). They may be in places where Buddhism is unknown, or simply were unaware of Buddhism and were awakened/released before knowing anything of the Buddha's teachings (if they come to know them, the traditional teachings, at all). There is nothing to say Private Buddhas do not exist when there is an age-Buddha known.
@Vajraheart, Private Buddhas exist even today. They are those who come to the truth without guidance from the age-Buddha (Siddhartha Gautama). They may be in places where Buddhism is unknown, or simply were unaware of Buddhism and were awakened/released before knowing anything of the Buddha's teachings (if they come to know them, the traditional teachings, at all). There is nothing to say Private Buddhas do not exist when there is an age-Buddha known.
Sure, but they might not have the conditions in mind appropriate for proper teaching of that realization. Also, do you have personal experience that can justify your explanation? I'm not saying there couldn't be, and they would most definitely teach through their example. I just haven't met any, but I've never been anywhere that Buddhadharma was unavailable.
Vajra, maybe you have a different definition for what a "Private Buddha" is than the traditional one that I've heard? What I understand is that a Private Buddha is someone who comes to knowledge and release of suffering without the guidance or teachings of the Buddha, but does not have the ability/talent to teach others. That's the simple definition, and unlike what is said about "the Buddha" - of which there's only one person given that title since they discovered and taught what was then unknown to mankind - Private Buddhas can be as few or many as there are humans, and we can't really put any number on them. Neither can we say there are ever none, hence the Private (they do not teach, so we do not know they are released). If we say there is the possibility of any, which is the purpose of creating the definition of "Private Buddha", then that possibility is always there; why would it not be? Why would we say there were Private Buddhas sometime in the past but not now? Everything holds the same as it always has, except if anything there might be fewer because it is easier to come to "Buddhism" nowadays (and if you come to Buddhism and then gain release, you would not be called a Private Buddha).
The teachings are only fingers pointing at the moon. Anyone who happens to look just the right way can see the moon whether there's anyone pointing at it or not. This will always remain so... teachings and teachers are only an expedient means to making it known that something is actually there to see. We can forget many things, but if they are part of reality they will always be rediscovered.
of course there has been many enlighten being, and there are still many today.
The problem with this question is that it is difficult to understand what being enlighten is.
Here's a quick definition: - An enlighten being has come to the realization of what causes suffering. (there are no frustrating situation, there are only situations, the frustration were only ever in our heads). - Observed this inside and see that there are no intrinsic meaning to his feelings and toughs, simple dumb automatic emotional reactions. (the sum of his beliefs, thoughts and feelings derived from them, all put together, giving the appearance that there is someone there. (the ego) - Once this realization is deep enough (he has observed this enough time to realize it's validity without any more doubts), the illusion of the ego dies. - Effortlessly now, old karma come (frustrations, anger, annoyance, whatever feeling) and this person can simply see the true nature of theses feelings, hense letting go of them immediately and on the spot (Buddha sat under the tree, and soon came anger to test him, and Buddha invited it and let it vanish...)
The path to enlightenment is a set of realizations. things that you must understand deeply and realize that they are true. usually one must observe it many times and clearly enough before one come to the realization. Like chemistry. "yes i get it, i've seen it many times with my own eyes, it's just what happen when you put Hydrogen gas with oxygen gas, they react together to form water."
So it is a set of realizations. But just like chemistry, you must learn certain prerequisite before being able to learn chemistry and come to theses realizations. like you must learn the letters of the alphabet before you can read.
Same with enlightenment, you must first realize that you are not your thoughts before you can realize the causes of suffering.
Theses realizations comes relatively in the same order for everyone. hence why people wrote maps to describe this order and why theses maps can be so useful. if you know what you are trying to realize, it can be very helpful.
- Effortlessly now, old karma come (frustrations, anger, annoyance, whatever feeling) and this person can simply see the true nature of theses feelings, hense letting go of them immediately and on the spot (Buddha sat under the tree, and soon came anger to test him, and Buddha invited it and let it vanish...)
and since the old karma (old frustrations, anger...) were all based on simple beliefs (this situation is annoying, this situation is infuriating), when the enlighten being let them go, what this means is he realize that this situation is not annoying, it was never annoying. So the annoyed feeling disappear. So this old karma is gone forever, this situation will never trigger this feeling anymore.
soon this person will go through all of his bad karma, and no situation in the world will ever trigger any negative emotional reactions (no more need to realize anything anymore.) now this person is free.
How do you not know everyone is enlightened apart from you?
it's a technical thing.
Just like the Buddha could tell where his disciples were stuck (haven't realized this particular thing yet so he can't move forward) and help them get unstuck, just with a simple conversation.
"I know what you said about I'm not my feelings but i don't really get it." "ahh, look at "this" for a while and eventually it will become self evident for you"
Enlightenment. Is it something achieved or something to be realized. If it is something to be realized then doesn't it already exist within us? If it is something to achieve then does it exist outside of us? Buddha means awakened one. To awaken from something isn't to achieve something.
To awaken from a coma, a nightmare, a terrible mistake -- are not achievements?
I think the Buddha said in attaining Awakening, there was no attainment.
Comments
There is the BIG enlightenment of the Buddha, with all of his jhanas, etc, but there is also the small enlightenment, which the Buddha praised immensely.
The Buddha compared the suffering found in small enlightenment to a fingertip of soil in comparison to the great earth.
The Buddha started the path to enlightenment with comprehending IMPERMANENCE rather than not-self, emptiness, etc
The Buddha said by developing the perception of impermanence (anicca sanna), the conceit "I" is abandoned.
Best wishes
May all being find liberation
so, what will be the four stages? is anagami half-jackpot?
what does that have to do with my post?
What actually arises are realisation's. Different people have different realisation's, and some have deeper and more numerous realisation's than others.
Not including myself, i personally know three people who have had deep realisation's. One has written two books on enlightenment, and the other two have even deeper realisation than he or i.
Realised people are quite numerous.
enlightenment is a westernization, it isn't really consistent with the concept of anatta. who or what gets enlightened? where's and who's the source of light?
in Zen, there's satori... gradual realizations, and in the end the final realization (nirvana).
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2009/03/on-anatta-emptiness-and-spontaneous.html?m=1
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2009/03/on-anatta-emptiness-and-spontaneous.html?m=1
Btw if anatta is realized, the no duality of subject and object would be implicit. Anatta is the realization of, in seeing just the seen, in hearing just the sound, effectively there is only manifestation without a seer seeing the seen. It is subtler than substantial non-dual realization as it does not subsume things to an inherent mind or awareness (such as, all things are the one awareness expressing itself as that) which is where advaita stops, but sees awareness as simply a label collating all self-luminous manifestations but is not itself a self-entity, not an ultimately existing singular entity.
However if only impersonality (no doer) is experienced, then one need not have realized non-dual.
Of course impersonality doesn't require non duality or annata. Many realise impersonality and progress no further.
In regards to advaita, the realisation is that, it's all me. Annata goes further to realise that there is no me. Although i am it and it is me.
because it can not be taught (by a silent buddha)?
Because they haven't learned the tools of expressing their innermost realization. Paccekabuddhas do not exist in this day and age since the coming of a Samyakasambuddha such as Gotama. But, just think about it... pre-Buddha, the written word was not very prominent, and pre-Buddha, so much that is a normal part of life and communication at this time was not existent. So, basically, Paccekabuddhas as the Buddha said, only exist prier to the coming of a Samyakasambuddha and the age that such a teaching still has existence in a mainstream sense.
Sure, but they might not have the conditions in mind appropriate for proper teaching of that realization. Also, do you have personal experience that can justify your explanation? I'm not saying there couldn't be, and they would most definitely teach through their example. I just haven't met any, but I've never been anywhere that Buddhadharma was unavailable.
The teachings are only fingers pointing at the moon. Anyone who happens to look just the right way can see the moon whether there's anyone pointing at it or not. This will always remain so... teachings and teachers are only an expedient means to making it known that something is actually there to see. We can forget many things, but if they are part of reality they will always be rediscovered.
now, buddhas... sure, there have been many.
The problem with this question is that it is difficult to understand what being enlighten is.
Here's a quick definition:
- An enlighten being has come to the realization of what causes suffering.
(there are no frustrating situation, there are only situations, the frustration were only ever in our heads).
- Observed this inside and see that there are no intrinsic meaning to his feelings and toughs, simple dumb automatic emotional reactions.
(the sum of his beliefs, thoughts and feelings derived from them, all put together, giving the appearance that there is someone there. (the ego)
- Once this realization is deep enough (he has observed this enough time to realize it's validity without any more doubts), the illusion of the ego dies.
- Effortlessly now, old karma come (frustrations, anger, annoyance, whatever feeling) and this person can simply see the true nature of theses feelings, hense letting go of them immediately and on the spot (Buddha sat under the tree, and soon came anger to test him, and Buddha invited it and let it vanish...)
The path to enlightenment is a set of realizations.
things that you must understand deeply and realize that they are true.
usually one must observe it many times and clearly enough before one come to the realization.
Like chemistry. "yes i get it, i've seen it many times with my own eyes, it's just what happen when you put Hydrogen gas with oxygen gas, they react together to form water."
So it is a set of realizations.
But just like chemistry, you must learn certain prerequisite before being able to learn chemistry and come to theses realizations. like you must learn the letters of the alphabet before you can read.
Same with enlightenment, you must first realize that you are not your thoughts before you can realize the causes of suffering.
Theses realizations comes relatively in the same order for everyone. hence why people wrote maps to describe this order and why theses maps can be so useful.
if you know what you are trying to realize, it can be very helpful.
So this old karma is gone forever, this situation will never trigger this feeling anymore.
soon this person will go through all of his bad karma, and no situation in the world will ever trigger any negative emotional reactions (no more need to realize anything anymore.) now this person is free.
Just like the Buddha could tell where his disciples were stuck (haven't realized this particular thing yet so he can't move forward) and help them get unstuck, just with a simple conversation.
"I know what you said about I'm not my feelings but i don't really get it."
"ahh, look at "this" for a while and eventually it will become self evident for you"
I think the Buddha said in attaining Awakening, there was no attainment.
Conrad.