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How to satisfy the conflicting requirements of work life and Dhamma practice?

edited December 2010 in Buddhism Basics
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Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> Hello friend,
Nice to find this forum. I'm a new buddhist practicing alone in the US. I'm facing a difficult situation as outlined in the title, and would appreciate your kind advice.

I suppose many other fellow practitioners might face the same difficulties as I do. As the practice gets to higher level, the conflicting requirements of work life and Dhamma practice are becoming more and more difficult to satisfy:

1) Seclusion vs. socialization: my job requires me to socialize with the colleagues by chatting with them often, participating in their various parties/gatherings from time to time and etc., which makes a secluded livelihood and abstaining from idle chatters impossible.

2) <leo_highlight style="border-bottom: 2px solid rgb(255, 255, 150); background-color: transparent; background-image: none; background-repeat: repeat; background-attachment: scroll; background-position: 0% 50%; -moz-background-size: auto auto; cursor: pointer; display: inline; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;" id="leoHighlights_Underline_0" onclick="leoHighlightsHandleClick('leoHighlights_Underline_0')" onmouseover="leoHighlightsHandleMouseOver('leoHighlights_Underline_0')" onmouseout="leoHighlightsHandleMouseOut('leoHighlights_Underline_0')" leohighlights_keywords="noble" leohighlights_url_top="http%3A//shortcuts.thebrowserhighlighter.com/leonardo/plugin/highlights/3_2/tbh_highlightsTop.jsp?keywords%3Dnoble%26domain%3Dnewbuddhist.com" leohighlights_url_bottom="http%3A//shortcuts.thebrowserhighlighter.com/leonardo/plugin/highlights/3_2/tbh_highlightsBottom.jsp?keywords%3Dnoble%26domain%3Dnewbuddhist.com" leohighlights_underline="true">Noble</leo_highlight> silence vs. active communication: during the work meetings I’ve been trying to speak only when it’s true, beneficial and timely, and keep <leo_highlight style="border-bottom: 2px solid rgb(255, 255, 150); background-color: transparent; background-image: none; background-repeat: repeat; background-attachment: scroll; background-position: 0% 50%; -moz-background-size: auto auto; cursor: pointer; display: inline; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;" id="leoHighlights_Underline_1" onclick="leoHighlightsHandleClick('leoHighlights_Underline_1')" onmouseover="leoHighlightsHandleMouseOver('leoHighlights_Underline_1')" onmouseout="leoHighlightsHandleMouseOut('leoHighlights_Underline_1')" leohighlights_keywords="noble" leohighlights_url_top="http%3A//shortcuts.thebrowserhighlighter.com/leonardo/plugin/highlights/3_2/tbh_highlightsTop.jsp?keywords%3Dnoble%26domain%3Dnewbuddhist.com" leohighlights_url_bottom="http%3A//shortcuts.thebrowserhighlighter.com/leonardo/plugin/highlights/3_2/tbh_highlightsBottom.jsp?keywords%3Dnoble%26domain%3Dnewbuddhist.com" leohighlights_underline="true">noble</leo_highlight> silence to avoid pointless and inappropriate speech; however, it has somehow become the most serious “shortcoming” of mine in the eyes of my colleagues, who demanded me to talk and communicate much more (the US philosophy is more “let your voice be heard” instead of “silence is gold”).

3) Life of simplicity with few duties (for dhamma practice) vs. active involvement in various duties/activities (demanded by the job)

4) Perception of distaste for the world of all vs. interest and enthusiasm in work: how can we maintain some adequate amount of interest and enthusiasm in our work while developing the perception of distaste for the world of all? If one has lost such interest and enthusiasm and is only interested in the Dhamma practice, can s/he continue to work?

Probably we should try to regard our work and daily life activities as good opportunities for us to remove our attachments/defilements and cultivate the wholesome qualities, e.g. moral discipline, sense control, mindfulness, clear comprehension, loving kindness, generosity, compassion, equanimity and letting-go. Then we can maintain our interest in work.

5) Associate with the wise people of integrity vs. have to work with the worldling(s) lacking of integrity:
Probably should take such people as mirror for our self reflection and for insight into human nature, instead of nourishing our unwholesome tendencies.

I’ve been practicing dhamma for only half a year, and have already been regarded as someone different. I wonder how the other practitioners with much longer practicing experiences handle such conflicting requirements. Your kind help is most appreciated.

With metta

Muditaa

PS: I posted this one also in Modern Buddhism but realized it's more appropriate to post it here. I don't know how to delete that post.

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Comments

  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited November 2010
    Bottom line: do the best you can. You still have to live in the world, so all you can do is what you can do.
  • edited November 2010
    These are good questions and every situation needs to be considered carefully.
    First, I think that you will find as many of us have that it will get easier for you in time.

    If you watch the masters you will see that they never openly display a "distaste for the world of all". I am not familiar with that phrase or teaching, but I think I understand that it is a state of mind and not necessarily a way to be.

    When you do not have anything to say that would be of use, then give re-assuring smiles, nods, and even reach out and touch people. People need acknowledgement and assurance. There is a lot of good that can be brought to any situation through bonding and comradarie.

    You are in the situations that you are in because of your own Karma, and that cannot be changed instantly. You have to work with the situation that you are in and progress from where you are.

    If you are like me, you are not necessarily ready for a life of seclusion, and isolation may not be the best of alternatives. So it may be difficult to continue to be a social person and still observe your precepts. But that makes for a good challenge for you, and may be the best training that you could get.
    Embrace the challenge, play by the rules of the social setting, but also keep to your aspirations.

    The middle way is a narrow path and you will find yourself straying from the path, just find your way back.

    The Art of happiness at work, by His Holiness, the Dalai Lama may be a good resource for you.

    Best wishes!
  • hermitwinhermitwin Veteran
    edited November 2010
    You have spent a whole lifetime studying, socializing, working etc.
    Where has it got you?
    Try seclusion and silence for a few days.
    Better yet go for a meditation retreat.
  • edited November 2010
    Hi Yeshe, hermitwin and Mountains,

    Many thanks for your kind advice. I agree that I'm in the current situation because of my karma, and it's probably the best environment/training I could get at this stage of my practice. It's probably not yet the right time for me to live a nun life or live in isolation on my own. I should let things happen naturally.

    Here is the sutta where "Perception of distaste for the world of all" is mentioned, and it's a very important sutta:

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Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> AN 7.46
    PTS: A iv 46
    Sañña Sutta: Perceptions
    translated from the Pali by
    Thanissaro Bhikkhu
    © 2004–2010
    "Monks, these seven perceptions, when developed & pursued, are of great fruit, of great benefit. They gain a footing in the Deathless, have the Deathless as their final end. Which seven? The perception of the unattractive, the perception of death, the perception of loathsomeness in food, the perception of distaste for every world, the perception of inconstancy, the perception of stress in what is inconstant, the perception of not-self in what is stressful.
    [1] "'The perception of the unattractive, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. It gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its final end': Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said?
    "When a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of the unattractive [the contemplation of the 32 parts of the body, or one or other of the 10 foul objects, that is, bodily remains in one of the ten stages of decomposition], his mind shrinks away from the completion of the sexual act, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in, and either equanimity or loathing take a stance. Just as a cock's feather or a piece of tendon, when thrown into a fire, shrinks away, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in; in the same way, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of the unattractive, his mind shrinks away from the completion of the sexual act, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in, and either equanimity or loathing take a stance. If, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of the unattractive, his mind inclines to the completion of the sexual act, or if non-loathing takes a stance, then he should realize, 'I have not developed the perception of the unattractive; there is no step-by-step distinction in me; I have not arrived at the fruit of [mental] development.' In that way he is alert there. But if, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of the unattractive, his mind shrinks away from the completion of the sexual act, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in, and either equanimity or loathing take a stance, then he should realize, 'I have developed the perception of the unattractive; there is a step-by-step distinction in me; I have arrived at the fruit of [mental] development.' In that way he is alert there.
    "'The perception of the unattractive, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. It gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its final end': Thus was it said, and in reference to this was it said.
    [2] "'The perception of death, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. It gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its final end': Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said?
    "When a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of death [the mindfulness of death], his mind shrinks away from fervor [zeal] for life, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in, and either equanimity or loathing take a stance. Just as a cock's feather or a piece of tendon, when thrown into a fire, shrinks away, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in; in the same way, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of death, his mind shrinks away from fervor for life, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in, and either equanimity or loathing take a stance. If, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of death, his mind inclines to fervor for life, or if non-loathing takes a stance, then he should realize, 'I have not developed the perception of death; there is no step-by-step distinction in me; I have not arrived at the fruit of [mental] development.' In that way he is alert there. But if, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of death, his mind shrinks away from fervor for life, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in, and either equanimity or loathing take a stance, then he should realize, 'I have developed the perception of death; there is a step-by-step distinction in me; I have arrived at the fruit of [mental] development.' In that way he is alert there.
    "'The perception of death, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. It gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its final end': Thus was it said, and in reference to this was it said.
    [3] "'The perception of loathsomeness in food [review the loathsomeness in ten ways regarding the solid food, that is, what is eaten, chewed and tasted, in this manner, that is to say, as to going, seeking, using, secreting, receptacle - the belly which is a “waste processing store”, the undigested -- the half-digested nauseating mass, the digested -- turning into dung and urine, fruit -- may bring various kinds of ailments and diseases, outflow – dung and urine, and smearing -- one soils one’s hands, lips, teeth and palate] [using: the good appearance of the food disappears once it is chewed up in the mouth, becoming “like a dog’s meal in a dog’s trough,” becoming a nauseating mass, which one swallows simply because it is out of sight], when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. It gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its final end': Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said?
    "When a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of loathsomeness in food, his mind shrinks away from craving for flavors, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in, and either equanimity or loathing take a stance. Just as a cock's feather or a piece of tendon, when thrown into a fire, shrinks away, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in; in the same way, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of loathsomeness in food, his mind shrinks away from craving for flavors, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in, and either equanimity or loathing take a stance. If, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of loathsomeness in food, his mind inclines to craving for flavors, or if non-loathing takes a stance, then he should realize, 'I have not developed the perception of loathsomeness in food; there is no step-by-step distinction in me; I have not arrived at the fruit of [mental] development.' In that way he is alert there. But if, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of loathsomeness in food, his mind shrinks away from craving for flavors, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in, and either equanimity or loathing take a stance, then he should realize, 'I have developed the perception of loathsomeness in food; there is a step-by-step distinction in me; I have arrived at the fruit of [mental] development.' In that way he is alert there.
    "'The perception of loathsomeness in food, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. It gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its final end': Thus was it said, and in reference to this was it said.
    [4] "'The perception of distaste for every world [all the world, or the world of the all], when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. It gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its final end': Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said? [Compared to the bliss of higher mind and Nibbana, such pleasures are not really interesting; or use “bait” idea (bait of Mara) & positive stupidness?]
    "When a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of distaste for every world [all the world], his mind shrinks away from worldly embellishments [ornaments, beauties], bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in, and either equanimity or loathing take a stance. Just as a cock's feather or a piece of tendon, when thrown into a fire, shrinks away, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in; in the same way, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of distaste for every world, his mind shrinks away from worldly embellishments, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in, and either equanimity or loathing take a stance. If, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of distaste for every world, his mind inclines to worldly embellishments, or if non-loathing takes a stance, then he should realize, 'I have not developed the perception of distaste for every world; there is no step-by-step distinction in me; I have not arrived at the fruit of [mental] development.' In that way he is alert there. But if, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of distaste for every world, his mind shrinks away from worldly embellishments, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in, and either equanimity or loathing take a stance, then he should realize, 'I have developed the perception of distaste for every world; there is a step-by-step distinction in me; I have arrived at the fruit of [mental] development.' In that way he is alert there.
    "'The perception of distaste for every world, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. It gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its final end': Thus was it said, and in reference to this was it said.
    [5] "'The perception of inconstancy, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. It gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its final end': Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said?
    "When a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of inconstancy, his mind shrinks away from gains, offerings, & fame, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in, and either equanimity or loathing take a stance. Just as a cock's feather or a piece of tendon, when thrown into a fire, shrinks away, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in; in the same way, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of inconstancy, his mind shrinks away from gains, offerings, & fame, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in, and either equanimity or loathing take a stance. If, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of inconstancy, his mind inclines to gains, offerings, & fame, or if non-loathing takes a stance, then he should realize, 'I have not developed the perception of inconstancy; there is no step-by-step distinction in me; I have not arrived at the fruit of [mental] development.' In that way he is alert there. But if, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of inconstancy, his mind shrinks away from gains, offerings, & fame, bends away, pulls back, and is not drawn in, and either equanimity or loathing take a stance, then he should realize, 'I have developed the perception of inconstancy; there is a step-by-step distinction in me; I have arrived at the fruit of [mental] development.' In that way he is alert there.
    "'The perception of inconstancy, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. It gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its final end': Thus was it said, and in reference to this was it said. [here needs more understanding]
    [6] "'The perception of stress in what is inconstant, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. It gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its final end': Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said?
    "When a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of stress in what is inconstant, a fierce perception of danger & fear is established in him toward idleness, indolence, laziness, heedlessness, lack of commitment, & lack of reflection, as if toward a murderer with an upraised sword. If, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of stress in what is inconstant, a fierce perception of danger & fear is not established in him toward idleness, indolence, laziness, heedlessness, lack of commitment, & lack of reflection, as if toward a murderer with an upraised sword, then he should realize, 'I have not developed the perception of stress in what is inconstant; there is no step-by-step distinction in me; I have not arrived at the fruit of [mental] development.' In that way he is alert there. But if, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of stress in what is inconstant, a fierce perception of danger & fear is established in him toward idleness, indolence, laziness, heedlessness, lack of commitment, & lack of reflection, as if toward a murderer with an upraised sword, then he should realize, 'I have developed the perception of stress in what is inconstant; there is a step-by-step distinction in me; I have arrived at the fruit of [mental] development.' In that way he is alert there.
    "'The perception of stress in what is inconstant, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. It gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its final end': Thus was it said, and in reference to this was it said.
    [7] "'The perception of not-self in what is stressful, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. It gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its final end': Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said?
    "When a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of not-self in what is [impermanent and] stressful, his heart is devoid of I-making & my-making with regard to this conscious body and externally with regard to all themes, has transcended pride, is at peace, and is well-released. If, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of not-self in what is stressful, his heart is not devoid of I-making & my-making with regard to this conscious body and externally with regard to all themes, has not transcended pride, is not at peace, and is not well-released, then he should realize, 'I have not developed the perception of not-self in what is stressful; there is no step-by-step distinction in me; I have not arrived at the fruit of [mental] development.' In that way he is alert there. But if, when a monk's awareness often remains steeped in the perception of not-self in what is stressful, his heart is devoid of I-making & my-making with regard to this conscious body and externally with regard to all themes, has transcended pride, is at peace, and is well-released, then he should realize, 'I have developed the perception of not-self in what is stressful; there is a step-by-step distinction in me; I have arrived at the fruit of [mental] development.' In that way he is alert there.
    "'The perception of not-self in what is stressful, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit, of great benefit. It gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its final end': Thus was it said, and in reference to this was it said.
    "Monks, these seven perceptions, when developed & pursued, are of great fruit, of great benefit. They gain a footing in the Deathless, have the Deathless as their final end."
    See also: AN 7.70; AN 9.16; AN 10.60




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  • edited November 2010
    Thank you Muditaa for posting this suttra. I will be reading and thinking about this for a couple days and perhaps later post some thoughts about it.

    For now, I just wanted to mention that the teaching was given to monks who were probably already living in monasteries and hermitages and engaged arduous practices.

    I often wish I could live the life of a monk or hermit, and maybe one day I will. For now I find it satisfying and beneficial to lend my support to those with positive motivations. When I think that I see things going the wrong way, I try to point out that there could be a better approach or attitude to the situation.

    At times I have felt (and people have regarded me) as you have mentioned, distant and withdrawn. I learned the hard way that I can and must do better. Difficult as it is, I owe it to my friends, family, and community to be engaged, supportive, and interactive.

    I have come to feel that for now, I cannot practice isolation so I have to do my best to bring my contribution to every situation that I find myself as well as make the effort to represent Buddhism. It seems this is more difficult than becoming a hermit, but then I have yet to try the hermitage or monastic lifestyle, and I expect that it will have some difficult challenges that may not be evident now.

    May you have Happiness!
  • edited November 2010
    Hello Yeshe,

    I found the following passage concerning the right time for isolation:

    Endowed with this noble aggregate of virtue, this noble restraint over the
    sense faculties, this noble mindfulness & alertness, and this noble contentment,
    he seeks out a secluded dwelling
    ..." — DN 12

    You are right that the teaching was given to monks, like most of the Buddha's teachings. Actually I'm trying to figure out if the lay disciples should follow the same training that the Buddha gave to the monastics, or should incorporate his teachings to lay followers into such trainings.

    With Metta,

    Muditaa


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  • edited December 2010
    muditaa wrote: »
    Hello Yeshe,

    I found the following passage concerning the right time for isolation:

    Endowed with this noble aggregate of virtue, this noble restraint over the
    sense faculties, this noble mindfulness & alertness, and this noble contentment,
    he seeks out a secluded dwelling
    ..." — DN 12

    You are right that the teaching was given to monks, like most of the Buddha's teachings. Actually I'm trying to figure out if the lay disciples should follow the same training that the Buddha gave to the monastics, or should incorporate his teachings to lay followers into such trainings.

    With Metta,

    Muditaa


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    It seems that the Buddha's teachings are appropriate for all, but must be engaged in starting with where we are. This teaching certainly makes a point about detachment, but as I said before it seems to be a training of the mind and probably not to be considered an instruction about how to interact with people.
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