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Benefits of Suffering?

tim45174tim45174
edited December 2010 in Buddhism Basics
I know that the aim of Buddhism is to end suffering, but how is suffering defined?

Think about the quote- "Whatever doesn't kill you only makes you stronger."

The more challenges you have allows you to overcome them and become a stronger person. So why try to avoid something that could make you a stronger person?

Is suffering in Buddhism only concerned with suffering in the mind due to illusions rather than external/physical challenges?

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited December 2010
    tim45174 wrote: »
    I know that the aim of Buddhism is to end suffering, but how is suffering defined?

    Think about the quote- "Whatever doesn't kill you only makes you stronger."

    The more challenges you have allows you to overcome them and become a stronger person. So why try to avoid something that could make you a stronger person?

    Is suffering in Buddhism only concerned with suffering in the mind due to illusions rather than external/physical challenges?

    This answers your questions:

    "Suffering, as a noble truth, is this: Birth is suffering, aging is suffering, sickness is suffering, death is suffering, sorrow and lamentation, pain, grief and despair are suffering; association with the loathed is suffering, dissociation from the loved is suffering, not to get what one wants is suffering — in short, suffering is the five categories of clinging objects.

    "The origin of suffering, as a noble truth, is this: It is the craving that produces renewal of being accompanied by enjoyment and lust, and enjoying this and that; in other words, craving for sensual desires, craving for being, craving for non-being.

    "Cessation of suffering, as a noble truth, is this: It is remainderless fading and ceasing, giving up, relinquishing, letting go and rejecting, of that same craving.

    "The way leading to cessation of suffering, as a noble truth, is this: It is simply the noble eightfold path, that is to say, right view, right intention; right speech, right action, right livelihood; right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.

    From here.

    A study of the Four Noble Truths will explain what suffering is.
    The Buddha stated, 'I come to teach about the origin of suffering and the cessation of suffering.'
    The 4 NT together with the Eightfold Path, are the way to go.
  • upalabhavaupalabhava
    edited December 2010
    That everything changes, that even happiness is fleeting is suffering. That there is pain and sorrow, etc. is suffering. That we are reborn into this suffering again and again, ceaselessly and uncontrollably is suffering.

    These are the 3 types of suffering.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited December 2010
    I don't know how challenging it is to be a Buddha but I have read they have a sense of feeling still.

    Along the path to become a buddha there are definitely challenges.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    edited December 2010
    Anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together can observe that all things change. Scientifically, emotionally, intellectually, culturally ... pick a realm or anything in that realm and all things change. Anyone can see this and say this.

    But just because something is a fact doesn't mean a human being is willing to admit it or live in accordance with it. In subtle and gross ways we would all like to be exempt from the facts. It is this fact that draws people to something called Buddhism... which just points out the facts over and over again.

    Just noodling.
  • ravkesravkes Veteran
    edited December 2010
    genkaku wrote: »

    But just because something is a fact doesn't mean a human being is willing to admit it or live in accordance with it..

    So true.. lol, we create so much suffering just because we aren't able to admit to the facts of a matter.

    We roam and roam for ages, seeking spiritual teachers, making up stories about reality, making up excuses -- Trying to deny reality.. instead of dropping right into it. I know a great part of my suffering was creating stories about what I thought life was, how I thought I should live life.. on and on.. until identification has stopped one still lives in a fantasy world. The funniest part is, your logical mind is used to it's utmost potential when you're not seeking yourself in it! Ha.. :)
  • hermitwinhermitwin Veteran
    edited December 2010
    If you know joy, then you know suffering.
    There is no light if there is no darkness.
    I think you are rite, you can be in pain but not suffering.
    Buddha had terrible headaches.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited December 2010
    I think suffering comes from rejecting your experience. Becoming aggressive or trying to get something to change it. Or avoiding it completely and going into a shell. At least thats implied by Trungpa, my teacher, and Pema Chodron.

    Its the ignorance part of the 4 nobles.

    Suffering is valuable because if we didn't have it we wouldn't practice. The devas have little motivation and so they will stay stuck. Be reborn as god knows what.
  • Ch-an_noobCh-an_noob
    edited December 2010
    Without Suffering we wouldn't find the drive or the desire to change. Abit dangerous cause you'll probably end up reborn in the lower realms of existance.
  • ChrysalidChrysalid Veteran
    edited December 2010
    Ch'an_noob wrote: »
    Without Suffering we wouldn't find the drive or the desire to change.
    Without suffering there would be no need to change.
    Ch'an_noob wrote: »
    Abit dangerous cause you'll probably end up reborn in the lower realms of existance.
    Who wouldn't want to be reborn as a demon? You get a tail, a free pointy stick for poking things, sexy succubi to play with... I think I just talked myself into converting to Satanism.
  • Ch-an_noobCh-an_noob
    edited December 2010
    Chrysalid wrote: »
    Without suffering there would be no need to change.
    In heaven there is no suffering, but after your good karma is used up, you fall straight into the lower realms. Buddhist don't deny rebirth in heaven due to very good conduct while in the human realm. But it's not permeant like Nirvana.

    Who wouldn't want to be reborn as a demon? You get a tail, a free pointy stick for poking things, sexy succubi to play with... I think I just talked myself into converting to Satanism.
    If only Buddhist hell were as cool as the pop culture version. You most likely wouldn't be working there, but rather the recipent of the endless torture devices in Buddhist hell.
  • WujiWuji
    edited December 2010
    I think we can apply the motto to Buddhism.

    Life is suffering therefore we all are born into suffering and we will face challenges, there is no option here. This suffering makes you a stronger Buddhist as you must learn to suffer in order to learn how to not cause yourself undue suffering.
  • naturelovernaturelover
    edited December 2010
    tim45174 wrote: »
    I know that the aim of Buddhism is to end suffering, but how is suffering defined?

    Think about the quote- "Whatever doesn't kill you only makes you stronger."

    The more challenges you have allows you to overcome them and become a stronger person. So why try to avoid something that could make you a stronger person?

    Is suffering in Buddhism only concerned with suffering in the mind due to illusions rather than external/physical challenges?
    Most of the ground seems to have been covered in the replies above. Just my 2 cents. There are no benefits to suffering. It simply is.
  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran
    edited December 2010
    tim45174 wrote: »
    I know that the aim of Buddhism is to end suffering, but how is suffering defined?

    Think about the quote- "Whatever doesn't kill you only makes you stronger."

    The more challenges you have allows you to overcome them and become a stronger person. So why try to avoid something that could make you a stronger person?

    Is suffering in Buddhism only concerned with suffering in the mind due to illusions rather than external/physical challenges?

    Yes, the Buddhist attitude towards suffering is rather unusual. From "The Eight Verses For Training the Mind" (only 3 verses copied here), the attitude is not so much to go seeking our aversive experiences as to take those aversive experiences in which we find ourselves, and use them to develop skillful means. Therefore these experiences are to be appreciated for the help they give us. As a married-person, I am especially fond of the last verse I have copied for you!

    I will learn to cherish beings of bad nature
    And those oppressed by strong sins and suffering
    As if I had found a precious
    Treasure very difficult to find.

    When others out of jealousy treat me badly
    With abuse, slander, and so on,
    I will learn to take on all loss,
    And offer victory to them.

    When one whom I have benefited with great hope
    Unreasonably hurts me very badly,
    I will learn to view that person
    As an excellent spiritual guide.
  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    edited December 2010
    FoibleFull wrote: »

    I will learn to cherish beings of bad nature
    And those oppressed by strong sins and suffering
    As if I had found a precious
    Treasure very difficult to find.

    When others out of jealousy treat me badly
    With abuse, slander, and so on,
    I will learn to take on all loss,
    And offer victory to them.

    When one whom I have benefited with great hope
    Unreasonably hurts me very badly,
    I will learn to view that person
    As an excellent spiritual guide.

    So, just to repeat for emphasis, this means "that which does not kill me makes me stronger" as in "that which does not kill me teaches me how to cope and may make me a better, more patient person in the process".

    This would seem to support Tim's original proposition.
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