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I dont get it
aHappyNihilist
Veteran
I'm starting to feel like a major nuisance around these forums but I'm just so far from being happy I'm trying to figure out how to change that..
I just don't understand how anyone can hold buddhism as even slightly coherent or rational. Every time i ask a question i get 100 answers that have nothing to do with each other.
I try to keep myself from wanting anything, i try to be nice to people etc. but i'm just miserable all the time. I constantly find myself reading some buddhist thing or another and looking at all the contradictions and just in general things that make no sense.
So craving causes suffering. Craving is basically wanting to feel pleasure. So I find myself trying to crave nothing in a desperate attempt to feel happy. But then i'm just craving happiness, and i don't feel happy at all. When pressed people end up saying all kinds of junk like "the truth is that there is no truth" and they don't even know what they mean. Is this whole forum just a place for people to try to make other people think they are more enlightened then others? All i hear about is the cessation of suffering, but where does your happiness come from?
Why help other people? what reason is there to help someone else? A central teaching of buddhism is lovingkindness but the only reason i can perceive to do "good" things is that it will make you happy. If you are supposed to not chase after happiness then what is your motivation to do anything? If you are supposed to resist the pull of desire then why do anything?
I just don't know anymore.. none of this is making sense. it seems the only way to end suffering is to be dead. But no... based on nothing the buddha asserts that I'll just be born again as someone else.
I just don't understand how anyone can hold buddhism as even slightly coherent or rational. Every time i ask a question i get 100 answers that have nothing to do with each other.
I try to keep myself from wanting anything, i try to be nice to people etc. but i'm just miserable all the time. I constantly find myself reading some buddhist thing or another and looking at all the contradictions and just in general things that make no sense.
So craving causes suffering. Craving is basically wanting to feel pleasure. So I find myself trying to crave nothing in a desperate attempt to feel happy. But then i'm just craving happiness, and i don't feel happy at all. When pressed people end up saying all kinds of junk like "the truth is that there is no truth" and they don't even know what they mean. Is this whole forum just a place for people to try to make other people think they are more enlightened then others? All i hear about is the cessation of suffering, but where does your happiness come from?
Why help other people? what reason is there to help someone else? A central teaching of buddhism is lovingkindness but the only reason i can perceive to do "good" things is that it will make you happy. If you are supposed to not chase after happiness then what is your motivation to do anything? If you are supposed to resist the pull of desire then why do anything?
I just don't know anymore.. none of this is making sense. it seems the only way to end suffering is to be dead. But no... based on nothing the buddha asserts that I'll just be born again as someone else.
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Comments
Our mind, in it's original state is like this, but is so deluded with dualistic concepts and thus we have an emotion, or a feeling about everything. Our mind's true nature, just like the sun, is always present. But we usually don't notice because of all the clouds that are in the way.
"People" don't "end up" saying "Junk" like "the truth is that there is no truth". That was one young member, as I mentioned to you privately. Don't judge the whole site by one person, please. I thought you got some pretty good answers on your "craving" thread. Maybe you could check in with a teacher or two at some local temples where you live, if you have that option. And, why not start a "contradictions" thread, so we can take a look at what's up for you?
Why help others? Because it's rewarding and helps us feel better, and the person helped also feels better, and we want* to end suffering in this world. And also because if we, ourselves, ever get in a bind or go through a stressful period in life, we'd appreciate a kind gesture. We work to create the world we want to have. Personally, I don't help others because Buddhism (or Christianity, or whoever) says that's what we should be doing. I do it because that's what I'm naturally motivated to do. We do good deeds because we empathize with others, we imagine how we would feel if we were in their shoes, and we naturally have the motivation to alleviate their suffering, as if it were our own. Not so much because helping will make us happy, though some teachers have written that that, also, can be a motivator. There's a specific meditation technique aimed at developing empathy, if you need help with that. Wouldn't you like to live in a kind, compassionate world? So, be kind and compassionate.
Start with the 4 Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path, and the precepts. Expand from there. I'm with you that there are some very difficult concepts in Buddhism. Don't begin in the middle, begin at the beginning, and build from there. It'll make more sense that way. Sometimes beginners bite off a lot more than they can chew and get overwhelmed.
*"want to end suffering" AHA! you might say, that sounds like desire or craving to end suffering. Well, we told you on the other thread, that there's skillful attachment/desire and unskillful. Wanting to end suffering just comes naturally to me. It can come naturally to you, too, with preparation, meditation, etc. (i.e. not "grasping" at ending suffering, but letting it flow naturally from your heart). We cultivate the heart.
edit: yea i used to be happy.
but it's not even about the contradictions, i'm following all of the 8-fold path to the best of my ability and am no happier for it, actually i'm probably less happy than before
Peace.
Who said we're "free from happiness in Nirvana"? Not I.
My novice-mind is telling me Buddhism teaches you to respond to things like this:
This food is tasty. This is so and okay.
This food is not tasty. This is also so and okay.
You still crave things, but if you don't get your way, thats okay.
Theres a line where Buddhism starts and where Asian cultures starts. The Buddha's teaching, essentially, did not teach of reincarnation. It grew up in India where reincarnation was widely believed, so Buddhists just kept the same idea. Many Buddhists (western ones) no longer believe in reincarnation.
simultaneous post again compassionate warrior, the fact is i'm not really hoping for instant change. I've been really depressed for like 5 years, recently i was kinda more happy, happy enough to actually have the energy to try to be more happy. I'm now trying my absolute hardest to follow buddhist teachings and now i'm just as depressed as i used to be.
Oh and I was raised Lutheran.
And sarcasm/jokes are oooh so very hard to detect when you're just typing on the internet.
:scratch:
Thats all I got to say in regards to your pessimism.
Do you get a hundred different answers to *every* question? Maybe, but if you didn't ask, where would you be?
As I always say, if in doubt, go back to the four noble truths and the noble eightfold path. That's the foundation. That's the basis for all the rest.
If somebody told you Buddhism was a quick and easy way to being in Happy Happy Land, they were misinformed
It's a process that goes on and on and on. Happiness may come to you, but if you expect it, or if you feel like you deserve to have it because you did this or that thing today, you're grasping at something, which always and ultimately leads to more suffering.
That's a crude analogy, but it gets the point of what I'm trying to say to you across. It's not instant, and it's not linear. It's a winding path.
Try Christianity. All you got to do to be happy is be ignorant of science/rationality and go to church every Sunday. But bye I guess...
Theres Hinduism, Judaism, Islam, Confucianism, Taoism, Neo-Paganism, straight-up Atheism, Rastafarianism, Pastafarianism, ancient beliefs, and many cults - all of which have been known to cause happiness.
If you're meditating (there's a trick to getting started), you quiet your mind, but for most people this takes a lot of practice, and random thoughts pop up. You observe those thoughts. You don't do anything, except bring your awareness back to your breath (it's about focussing on the breath). You don't judge, you don't modify your thought, just observe. Note what kind of thoughts they are, then come back to the breath. This gives you insight into your own thought patterns, and if you don't like what you see, you can change them. Does this make sense? One gets results from Buddhism in part by practicing meditation, and I'm guessing that part is missing from your menu.
What's wrong about wanting to be happy? Everybody wants to be happy! That's in the core of our being. And there is nothing wrong about wanting it. I can't imagine Buddha or Buddhist monks ever having said that you should not want to be happy. Offcourse you should! That's also the core of Buddhism! It is even the basis for the noble truths. And that's why Buddhism has al these wonderful and wise teachings on how to reach this happiness. It basicly comes down to ending suffering. When there is no suffering, the only thing left is happiness. There is no inbetween. Can you somehow imagine that?
And what's the cause of suffering? It can be all kind of things, like bumping your feet against a table, but you can't really help that (other than watching where you are going
The different replies you get is because there can be multiple answers sometimes, but it will mostly be because everybody has different experiences, but also because everybody on this forum is in another phase in his/her life and experience of Buddhism. But that shouldn't matter. Buddhism teaches us that you can only really find answers if you find them out by yourself.
If you want to be happy (and who doesn't?
"Try to check out your mind"--that's similar to what I was saying about observing your thoughts. Are you putting yourself down because you're not happy? That's an example of self-defeating thought. Life isn't easy, we're not all happy all the time. Buddhism gives us tools to help deal with stress and adversity, teaches us to work with the mind.
Yes, our replies are quite the same (see, not so much difference after all
And I totally agree with you on the meditation. aHN, I also advice you to do it. Just for a week or something, instead of watching TV or whatever
and i have meditated, daily for like a month. i was just doing that now, before i was not even going to come back to this forum but i kinda got some energy back to try again.
let me try and give a more answerable question. What separates wanting to do something "skillful" like gaining better control over your mind, from something "unskillful" like wanting some tasty chocolates. They are both desires, both needs that cause suffering.
They are seperated by where they originate. Some things come from the ego, others come from the heart. In your heart you want to be happy. That's great, beautiful. You should really cherish that. But things like money, status, good looks and the like are things you don't want with the heart. Try to find which things give you a good feeling within and which don't and you'll be able to make the distinction even more clearly.
Right now what I want is a good night's sleep. I really would like that for myself, would really make me a less grumpy person tomorrow. Nothing wrong I can see in that
all those things come from the ego. The only reason to help someone is that it will benefit you, either by making you more happy, giving you a nice stockpile of good karma or whatever.
there is nothing you can want that doesn't come from a self interest. and there is no wanting that isn't painful.
Need proof that changes in brain chemistry effect mood? If my friends call after 11:00 PM and ask me to go a movie I'll hang up the phone on them. If they call me at 9:00 AM I'll drive and pick everybody up. Similar brain chemistry mood change would come from alcohol, or starvation, or the flu.
The idea of "attachment/craving" (as in the wanting of, or even the aversion of, either pleasure/sensuality, becoming/existence, even the extinction/non-existence of the unpleasant experiences in life) comes from the fact that we experience short-term satisfaction and happiness by satisfying our desires. However, this does not bring an end to them. We will continue to desire and crave either these or some other things, thus our happiness will only be brief until samsara kicks in and starts the vicious cycle all over again.
The thing everyone keeps trying to point out with the whole "skillful/unskillful" desires is that yes, desires are natural. They aren't telling you to supress your natural tendencies, but to see them for what they truly are and deal with them accordingly. It's "skillful" to desire for others to overcome an illness, it's "unskillful" to desire for someone to die from said illness. Even more "skillful" would be not being so attached and accept the natural outcome of said illness, either way.
Honestly, whenever you're feeling down all of the time and don't know why...maybe you should seek a specialist. Perhaps a doctor of some sort, or even a teacher of some sort. They could potentially help you out a lot more than any internet forum.
You're wrong about all things coming from the ego. Today I worked a few hours for my neighbour. She wanted to fix her curtains, but didn't even know how to handle a drill. (women.. :shake:
And there is also no direct gain for me (or anybody else here) in posting these replies. It's not that we're trying to be smart, or wise or anything. We're just trying to help you. And if it doesn't help, well thats a shame, but ok, that's fine too. If my neighbours curtains fall on the floor tomorrow.. well that'll be fine with me too. (But they won't because I fixed them very thoroughly.
PS: Pardon my bad English. I'm tired and it's not my native language.
And indeed, as pointed out above, if you are really depressed it can also be something physical. In that case, go see a specilist.
I wish you well,
Sabre