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Is it ever skillful to enter a romantic relationship?
Pretty self-explanatory question.
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Skillful? Probably on her part. I suspect looking back on it, I didn't have a chance. She played me like a flute. And, I have never had a single regret. But that's just me. Your milage may vary.
Romance can certainly be a problem in your life. How many of our secular and spiritual leaders get tripped up by the urge to merge? But then, so can any part of a life.
Too many ___intoxicants___ involved. Especially the body's most powerful debilitating intoxicant: hormones. :screwy:
Oxytocin, to be specific. Oxytocin reduces fear, increases eye contact, and increases trust and generosity. This love hormone causes people to act differently – though they don’t necessarily feel different. :coffee:
It's a trick Nature plays. Which part of Nature? The genes. :vimp:
The genes don't care about us, our lives, they ONLY care about recombining and replicating themselves. We are a by-product. Or at least we are just a PART of the process, whatever it is, but MOSTLY we exist for genetic material's drive to succeed! :aol:
No problem though. It's still fun to be alive (and make out!) as a human with romantic urges. It's fun and worthwhile to be low-hormone in the pasture too. :om:
:screwy:
So yeah, a relationship is skillful in my experience.
This said, some schools of Buddhism allow monks to "un-ordain" and lead a lay life.Other traditions, like Zen, I believe, don't state that a monk cannot be married....
Nah..., just kidding..., trying to be funny...,
I was just asking myself "what part mindfulness would play in deciding whether or not to enter a relationship for a buddhist'?" If there are are any skillful reasons to want to be in a relationship.
And more importantly what should one do when one thinks one is in love with somebody else.
Too bad the females at my age are more interested in drinking and partying. Not that there's anything wrong in that...
One should give up Buddhism and forget about Enlightenment.
Dharmic romance is a special thing, I think.
That's not to say attachments including romantic ones don't happen, both within the walls of the temple and through sneaking into town. People are people everywhere. Some monks are more devout than others. There are certainly gay monks, for that matter. And, monks are quite free to hand in their robes if they want to persue a romance and sometimes do so.
And, not every culture forbids monks from being married. People have a valid point when they say living the Dharma should involve a normal life, if it actually teaches us how to handle life's problems.
Buddhism encourages human beings to guide their life using wise reflection rather than mere romantic (sexual) attraction.
Buddhism states intention based in mere lust is unskilful.
The first thing the Buddha recommended is two people be very honest about their life goals. The Buddha advised the first quality of a lasting relationship is sharing mutual or compatible goals.
If our romantic relationship is temporary, generally the result will be suffering for one or both people.
Kind regards
DD
If we cannot develop happiness via meditation then relationships can be skilful.
In Buddhism, many monks have disrobed and then established romantic relationships.
"I was just asking myself "what part mindfulness would play in deciding whether or not to enter a relationship for a buddhist'?" If there are are any skillful reasons to want to be in a relationship.
And more importantly what should one do when one thinks one is in love with somebody else."
Swriously though, to be successful in a romantic relationship takes great compassion, loving kindness and reflective practice!
What remains when you take the the "you" and the "I" out of Budism?
I could go on... actually I couldn't, but if anyone else has any similar smutty word plays, I am all ears (spelt with two "R"s)!
Chillax
- what part mindfulness would play in deciding whether or not to enter a relationship for a buddhist?
- what should one do when one thinks one is in love with somebody else?
From a buddhist perspective of course.
If you think that is unhelpful, that is nothing compared to when people dont finish sentences because
>>>>But I'm talking about mindfulness and love.
Mindfulness is an approach and practice, love is a connection.
>>>>>what should one do when one thinks one is in love with somebody else?
that would depend on the situation. if you hav been dating him for 3 years, probably tell him? If it your probation officer, proably not tell her.
>>>From a buddhist perspective of course.
There is no buddhist perspective, there is just dharma. Use dharma to answer your own questions, be your own light, and all that:)
As I previously said, the Buddha advised an ideal partner shares the same life goals. Plus the same virtue, the same generosity/sacrifice & the same wisdom. The Buddha also said where one or both partners do not keep the five precepts then such a relationship will be problematic. So our mindfulness reflects on these qualities.
Regarding thinking one is in love with somebody else, Buddha taught this is unfaithfulness. The Buddha did not recommend unfaithfulness, well, at least in marriage. Leaving one person for another may hurt the other person. The Buddha did not recommend hurting others. This is why there is the precept of sexual misconduct, which encourages Buddhists to be very heedful, careful & reflective in relation to sexual matters.
So if we are still searching, so to speak, if we have not made any formal commitments and if we think a relationship we are in is a definite mistake then I suppose we must decide what is best for our well-being. Possibly it is best or realistic for us to start afresh. This, we must decide for ourselves. For this, we bear the responsibility.
The Buddha did not make rules about matters such as divorce. The Buddha just spoke alot about what are suitable partners for a person and about what are not suitable suitable partners. The Buddha spoke alot about what are skilful & nurturing qualities for relationships and what are unskilful & destructive qualities. The Buddha spoke extensively about both matters, in the same way he spoke extensively about what things are suffering and about what things are not suffering.
The Buddha also spoke about partners training or improving themselves for relationship. In one discourse, the Buddha said those living together in a household need to develop & possess four qualities, namely, honesty (sacca), training in self-improvement (dama), patience/endurance (kanti) and generosity/sacrifice (caga).
So, as a Budddhist, as I previously said, one does not make decisions exclusively on the basis of sexual or romantic attraction. Instead, one considers is the relationship the right relationship for the long term? One investigates whether both parties share sufficient mutual qualities.
As Buddhists, we definitely want to find lasting happiness in our lives. But, at the same time, we try to avoid creating a train wreck of suffering whilst doing so.
Instead of love being romantic love, as Buddhists, we try to upgrade our love to loving-kindness & compassion (metta-karuna). Metta is respecting another as a friend. Karuna is the wish to avoid/alleviate suffering.
Kind regards
DD
In the context of the Buddha's teaching, in which one is trying to free oneself from the cycle of rebirth, mindfulness is applied to three qualities: unsatisfactoriness (dukkha), impermanence (anicca), and not-self (anatta). In the Satipatthana Sutta, the Buddha suggest four objects in which to observe these qualities: the body, feelings, the mind, and thoughts. Contemplating how the body, feelings, mind and thoughts are impermanent, unsatisfactory and not representative of a lasting self is intended to make the practitioner disenchanted with worldly existence; as the sutta puts it, he gives up "craving and discontent with reference to this world."
So, onto your question: "What part mindfulness would play in deciding whether or not to enter a relationship for a Buddhist?" Because sati facilitates disenchantment with the world, it may make the urge to enter a relationship less intense. A lot of us come to relationships with a lot of hidden agendas: we want the other person to affirm our own desirability, to bolster our own self-concept as attractive, lovable, acceptable, etc. Because sati eases up our sense of worldly things (including body, emotions, thoughts and concepts, etc.) as something permanent, satisfying, and representative of a true self, such affirmation becomes less meaningful. Sati doesn't ultimately prescribe whether one should enter into a relationship or not. You can enter into it keeping in mind its impermanence, inherent unsatisfactoriness, and not-self nature of its rewards. Or you can forgo it.
Bringing us to your second question: We now reach a crucial point: for modern-day practitioners, what does become a deciding factor in whether to pursue a relationship (or any behavior, really) is whether you accept the Buddha's worldview. Do you accept that we are ultimately trying to free ourselves from an endless cycle of rebirth? If so, relationships will only ensnare you in further becoming (bhava) and keep you trapped in samsara. Thus, they are unskillful in terms of freeing yourself from suffering.
If you do NOT accept this worldview, you're faced with deciding how to go about making use of this lifetime. We face infinite opportunities every day about what behaviors to pursue and what to avoid. In such a context, without the framework of the Buddha's worldview, you have quite a bit of freedom in deciding what parts of the teaching you feel are relevant to you. In such a context, "skillful" and "unskillful" become less meaningful as frames of reference in and of themselves. You will need to define what "skillful" entails specifically for you, e.g., what is it you value in this life? Do the potential benefits of being in a relationship (companionship, sexual gratification, stability, fun and pleasure, etc.) outweigh the potential costs (dependence, false pride, drama, grief down the road when the relationship ends or your partner dies, etc.)? All of life involves such trade-offs. In such a context, we can't subjugate our responsibility for deciding the direction of our lives to a cut-and-dry set of injunctions.
The short answer is, what sort of sorry religion would Buddhism be, if you could not apply its core teachings to every aspect of a normal human life? What sort of bogus religion would it be that claimed a universal truth, if its innermost teachings could not be penetrated by someone living a normal human life including having a love life?
The specific answer is:
It would be unskillful for a celebate monk/nun to enter into a romantic relationship because he or she is not being mindful of their vows.
For the others, romantic relationships are skillful both in choosing and execution if you keep in mind the four virtues which govern relationships:
The Four Virtues Conducive to Social Welfare 1. Generosity (Dana) 2. Kind Speech (Piyavaca) 3. Benevolence (Atthacaritya) 4. Adaptability (Samanattata)
Is this more what you're looking for?
I gotta blame the unique difficulties on hormones and "conspiracy" (meaning two hormone-intoxicated people are involved -it gets a life of it's own far larger one person 1+1=11 ). There's very little "mindfulness" or "deciding" involved. Seriously, I'm not trying to be funny.
Looking back on how I fell in love those times: nothing would have stopped it from unfolding the way it did. I speculate now but I couldn't have stopped it and therefore no control or mindfulness - got that way like a bomb going off: one moment it's one way next moment it's another way; no going back.
Maybe that helps a bit? I dunno. Good luck!
Roger, I think there's a point when one is getting to know another, before hormones kick in, when one can rationally decide whether or not to pursue the liaison. One can weigh the many factors involved, and decide whether or not to walk away before getting too involved.
In some Buddhist countries, some people become temporary monks or nuns. There was this Lao/Thai temple in a town I lived in while going to middle and high school. During some school breaks, kids could take a temporary ordination as a samanera. I think after being a samanera for a while one could consider full ordination as a bhikkhu. Even if they eventually got married, they could return to the monastery provided that they secure permission from their significant others before ordaining.
I can't help noticing, you like head-banging, Roger.
You won't find many of his posts (like that) on here, because they will have been removed for being completely Off-topic and non-contributory.
TO EVERYONE:
Please consider whether your posts are actually relevant to topic and do constructively contribute a valid, pertinent and appropriate PoV to the thread.
Thanks, all.
"I'm sorry" is my mantra. I Do not WANT to be wrong but when I am I get some pleasure admitting that I am wrong.
It's a relief and a recognition that I got over what was obscuring my view.
Banghead is a way to wake up! "I could have had a V-8!"
LOL. Works for me. I'm not recommending it for everybody. By prescription only. LOL
FWIW. No big deal.
I'm very sorry!
Vaois, Pilot, et al.: I think if you don't want to meet women/people who are into drinking and partying, don't go to parties. Join a science club, a hiking or other outdoor recreation group, or hobby group, a book club, whatever. None of my friends in high school or college were into partying or drinking.Only one was religious. Most of my friends still aren't into that. Partying/drinking = BO-RING! (we need a "snooze" emoticon.) Pardon my frankness.