Is Swearing Bad?

MindGate

What do YOU think? What does it say about it in Buddhism?

My opinion:

I swear, definitely, but not AT anyone (unless I'm mad, of course, but thats unskillful behavior). I've never got in trouble here on the forums for it either.

I find swearing to be a social taboo which is silly. I find nothing wrong with swearing. Hell, damn, etc, are JUST WORDS. Society just deems it inappropriate because they can. Theres nothing wrong with them, we just perceive them to be bad, which is just a delusion. If the word isn't a personal threat towards any person, sex, or race, then there shouldn't be wrong with it. Its just a word that seems to bring bad connotations with it, but it honestly doesn't hurt somebody unless they "want" it to hurt them. Saying the F word in a sentence wouldn't offend anyone if society didn't say they SHOULD be offended. Its not bad, thats a delusional.

Now, if we were CALLING someone a "bad word," that is bad. Calling someone something with mean intent is just generally bad, but calling someone a 'moron' or 'idiot' should be just as bad as calling someone any other name, including swear words.

Swear words shouldn't be looked down upon, unless used directly at somebody in a negative way. But then again, the word 'moron' should be just as bad as calling someone a swear word.

buddhajunkie

It often reflects and strengthens mindstates which are bad. Thus, "swearing is bad" is a decent approximation to the truth. I think the world would be a better place if people cursed less.

MindGate

I find it to be a stress, reliever. When I'm mad, I just let the f-bombs fly, and I feel better and become less angry, so I deny your implications that it strengthens bad mindstates.

Jason

We've had a similar discussions about this in past. If you're interested, you can find it here.

buddhajunkie

I find it to be a stress, reliever. When I'm mad, I just let the f-bombs fly, and I feel better and become less angry, so I deny your implications that it strengthens bad mindstates.

I believe that at the moment of cursing the anger peaks, then drops off. Of course, when cursing is followed by more cursing, the anger is maintained.

I believe there are superior ways of dealing with anger than this, which is the spiritual equivalent of smoking a cigarette.

By the way, there have been a few studies a found talking about the virtues of swearing. However, I think the conclusions of these studies were overly broad.

I still highly recommend finding some other way of managing anger.

ravkes

in my opinion, one should just use intelligence.
if you're around people who would take it offensively (parents, boss, teachers) don't use it because it might cause them a bit of suffering, albeit being delusional. however remember just because you may have let go of certain things others have not.
if you're around your friends or people who don't take offense to it then it doesn't matter as much and it's used jokingly without the punch. same as if you need stress relief and let them fly by yourself.
however in my experience it's really just best to refrain in any and all situations (right speech) just in case you may be causing harm to someone, because even though you don't intend to it still happens.

here's a good article i found on right speech if you're interested:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/speech.html

Mintyfresh0

Words are just words. The only power they have is what you or others give them. I have no problem using swears or racial slurs, unless there are those in my presence who might take offense.

...so I guess avoid causing negative events with the words ; that is the important thing.

federica

If you avoid causing negative events, you don't need the words.
If you need the words - you haven't avoided causing negative events.

Mountains

If you avoid causing negative events, you don't need the words.
If you need the words - you haven't avoided causing negative events.

Sometimes you can't avoid hitting your finger with the hammer though (DAMMIT!)

shanyin

I was swearing one day and my dad told me not to because it turns him off of the conversation.

genkaku

As a teenager, I was once lectured by a fellow with whom I picked up rubbish. He was a married man with a new baby and he swore like a trooper, but he brought me to a screeching halt when I said f**k once too often. "If you don't know how to use the word, please don't," he said simply. Naturally, as a teen trying to strut my macho stuff, I was embarrassed and angry. But as I listened to his speech (and use of the word f**k in its various forms), I realized he was right. There was a proper and artful usage, a time when it just plain fit and a time when it just plain didn't. There's a music to cussing as there is a music to the rest of language.

I never did learn how not to cuss, but soon after I took up Buddhism, when I told my mother I was going to give up cussing, she seemed honestly shocked: "Don't do that," she pleaded. "I wouldn't know who you are."

All I can say is that if cussing is a lock-step no-no, I'm sunk.

Roger

Swearing releases adrenaline and makes you feel better for a few seconds. It's a desperate way to get a cheap little jolt.

Tourettes? It's always swear words with tourettes no matter which language. Why? Because Tourettes is a malfunction of a part of the brain which "houses" swear words. seriously. No other words trigger that part of the brain, only obscenities. That same area triggers big time hormonal and neurotransmitter release. Interesting stuff.

Bottom line: swearing is fine when __I__ do it (I do it extremely occasionally, BTW). When another person does it I feel assaulted and certainly do not like it. I think the person has limited self control and other problems to be resorting to that sort of thing habitually and in public.

Back to that special part of the brain again. Probably like having a normal lunch and all of a sudden someone shows everybody at the table a definitive porn picture: not cool. Everybody's "erotic brain" gets triggered against their will. Swearing is the same thing, from my amateur POV.

Just my two cents. Carry on then.

karmadorje

Is swearing bad? Hell no! But as it has been very well illustrated above, there is a time and a place for it. I was reading John Allen's masterful book on Opus Dei and it told the humorous story of one numerary who was the VP of a powerful bank and was shocked to have his confessor tell him "You are feeding me a line of shit." The cognitive dissonance of such a statement can be a very useful tactic to wake people out of their quotidian stupor. This gentleman reflected on his words and realized that he was indeed feeding the priest BS.

If you swear all the time, the device becomes meaningless. As in most things, intent is the most important factor.

Vincenzi

...well, most think samsaraputra (child of suffering) was an insult... but it really is a way to start a process to annihilate avidya (ignorance) and in the end... is written because of karuna (compassion). meaning, that using that in a reply is a "wake up call" (don't be ignorant, and stop suffering).

IronRabbit

My swearing doesn't mean any more to me than your sermons do to you.
- comment made to Rev. Joe Twichell, quoted in Mark Twain and Hawaii, by Walter Francis Frear

[DeletedUser]

It depends on the degree of a cultured mind/heart for both the swearer or being swear upon. Besides, what's there to swear on/against emptiness

Roger

Swearing is nothing but abusive. Isn't it? Think about it. It's spewing negativity which is always aimed at things or people or places.

MindGate

Bumping for relevantness. I find swearing to be perfectly fine.

federica

you and I differ. As do many on this forum. it may have its place, but really, excessively and inappropriately, on here, I'm really - REALLY - not a fan.

Cam

I don't think it's ever necessary. It's a reflection of weak self control.

As for stress relief, there are much better methods that don't make you look like a fool.

MindGate

Cam: So, bottling things up inside is better? Squeezing a little stress ball will not make you look like a fool? Hitting your pillow is better control? Swearing is perfecting fine.

Fed: But should a moderator really moderate based on their personal beliefs rather than beliefs that make the most sense? Of course, one could argue that your beliefs make the most sense, but I have put forth a valid argument that says differently. Care to comment?

MindGate

It's not ultimately bad, but it can be percieved as bad. Sometimes it is important to consider others' perceptions, even if you disagree with them or "know" them to be false. I don't consider swearing to be bad, but I won't go around and cuss up a storm if I know you don't like it.

Cam

I never recommended "bottling things up", nor squeezing a stress ball, nor hitting a pillow. Re read my post.

If I'm stressed or angry on-the-go, I'll do breathing meditation while continuing with my activities.

Swearing can cause stress for others, and is neither wise nor compassionate.

federica

Fed: But should a moderator really moderate based on their personal beliefs rather than beliefs that make the most sense? Of course, one could argue that your beliefs make the most sense, but I have put forth a valid argument that says differently. Care to comment?

I never moderate on anything based on my personal beliefs. I moderate on what is appropriate to the forum and its members. My interest doesn't concern my personal opinion. It concerns caring for and protecting this forum and its members from unwanted, unwarranted, inappropriate and unnecessary content.

What is valid about your argument, when by and large, most members dislike foul language?

MindGate

Most Americans are Christians. Should we be a Christian nation, support Christian ideals, etc?

missnikki

I don't care about swearing persay, but when I'm in a Buddhist forum where I expect most discussions to be mature, calm and respectful, I don't really wanna see it.

MindGate

Well, many people aren't mature, calm, and respectful whether or not swearing is involved.

And again, Fed, "foul language" is a personal opinion.

federica

No, actually, it isn't.
Foul language is foul language by anybody's standards.
Usage and appropriateness may be personal opinion, but when it's used liberally, on a Buddhist forum, and many people object, it stops being personal, and starts being generally offensive.

missnikki

*smh*
I am in total agreeance with Federica on this one, however I still respect MindGate opinion completely.
Whenever I have come here, I haven't seen any "swearing" (until now), and I thot it was a nice change of pace from usual internet forums.

Now I'm gunna go take an effin nap.

Zayl

Cursing can be hilarious. When someone stubs their toe and lets out a litany of every curse-word in the english language, and a few others, it is indeed a sight to see.

robot

True Chris Rock or Jason Ellis would not be the same without swearing. There is a place for it. In my business its use is widespread. I can take it or leave it. I don't like to read it here.

Zayl

True Chris Rock or Jason Ellis would not be the same without swearing. There is a place for it. In my business its use is widespread. I can take it or leave it. I don't like to read it here.

Agreed, there are times and places for it, this is not one of them.

Roger

Look at the brain. Swear words are processed differently. I mentioned Tourette's Syndrome as evidence this is true.

Hit your finger with a hammer and screaming the f-word alleviates the pain much better than screaming "fudge."

Wire a room full of people to physiological recording instruments and then have someone go on stage and recite words. When they get to the swear word the measuring instruments will show something very different.

IOW, swearing is not OK. It's not like normal language. The brain processes it differently. Swearing around people is a form of assault (only word I can think of, sounds a bit harsh, but it has some truth)

FWIW. Do what you have to do.

compassionate_warrior

Roger, you can train your brain to substitute other words, they do the job just as well.

MindGate

Words are just words, still. Again, its just social taboo.

Roger

Roger, you can train your brain to substitute other words, they do the job just as well.

Would be nice c_w! I'll give it a try next time I'm hammering nails. OTOH, I gotta go with the psychological studies of Tourette's Syndrome. They have established without doubt that swear words are connected with different parts of the brain. We've all been acculturated (mentally programmed?) to the exceptional power of these words. No matter which native language of Tourette's sufferers? They always use the most vile powerful obscenities in their respective languages.

Interesting stuff. Would be great if there were POSITIVE words which could give everybody a boost of positive endorphins! Would be nice to be born with them or pre-wired into the brain by puberty.

Would be nice to have "magic" good words that would stop people in their tracks with a moment of pleasure and joy instead of disgust and anger!

LOL!

MindGate

POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE ARE RELATIVE THINGS, ROGER.

Roger

POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE ARE RELATIVE THINGS, ROGER.

OK. How about this? I (we) like to relate to whichever makes me happy and helps me avoid negative thinking.

MindGate

Yes, but you said,

"would be great if there were POSITIVE words which could give everybody a boost of positive endorphins!"

Well, to some, they may be positive words.

Cam

You're right about it being treated differently Roger, that's because swearing is handled by the limbic (sometimes known as mammalian) portion of our brain. The limbic system handles mostly our emotional automatic responses. Normal speech however, is not handled by the limbic system.

The good news is that we can change limbic responses. For example, when I hurt myself, I either yell "AH BUGGER", or "AH POOP".

MindGate

Bugger actually means anal sex, to be honest. Not a very good choice of words. Not joking either. I learned that the other day when I said, "Ah bugger." Bugger also sounds racist to me. Meh.

Cam

Bugger actually means anal sex, to be honest. Not a very good choice of words. Not joking either. I learned that the other day when I said, "Ah bugger." Bugger also sounds racist to me. Meh.

It's completely relative to how you're cultured. I'm Australian, and bugger is a very common, acceptable alternative to swearing. It might not be the same for you, but again it's a cultural thing.

With accepted use by society, words can be removed from their meaning.

MindGate

Words only have the meaning that the person saying them thinks they have. So, swearing, such as on this forum, should be permissible. If the word Bugger, meaning buttsecks, is allowed, why couldn't Shit be allowed? Its all based on how the person perceives it, but no person should person words bad or good. HHDL SAID THAT IN HIS ONE BOOK. THINKS AREN'T GOOD OR BAD. WE JUST PUT ON FALSE TAGS.

swaydam

Words are just words, still. Again, its just social taboo.

If you were an art critic.....seeing a bunch of paintings.......you might say one painting is more exquisite than another. You wouldn't say "They are all JUST paint." would you?

MindGate

Why is Shit bad but Grat isn't? I can make up a whole bunch of mean words and use them the same way. Why aren't they just as bad? They should be.

Don't be such a flakkin moron, you fat wolsh. I really don't understand what the bloiting problem with swearing you have. I swear, your brain is no different than a piece of grat from cats litter box.

See? It should have the same affect, because they are just words. Yet, they don't because you and society deem them as okay but deem other words bad. Its just a false sense of mind.

MindGate

If you were an art critic.....seeing a bunch of paintings.......you might say one painting is more exquisite than another. You wouldn't say "They are all JUST paint." would you?

But THATS NOT WHAT PEOPLE DO. People pick out a genre of paintings they don't like and then ban them because they deem them "bad." Its just a painting, its not bad or good. Its your mind deems it as bad, its your fault, not the painters.

Cam

The philosophy that there are no bad words isn't applicable for administration purposes. There are even LEGAL definitions of offensive language.

The admins here would follow much the same philosophy that the law does in relation to that, referencing what a "reasonable person" would do and or say.

What is accepted by the majority, or society is what governs good or offensive language.

swaydam

If cuss words are "just words" then one should be able to give them up as easily as others should be able to tolerate them.

swaydam

Also, a word is "just a word" only specifically when it is addressed as such.
Eg "The word F*** is a four letter word." That is pretty much the ONLY context in which it is just a word. And I don't think anyone finds cuss words offensive when addressed simply as words.

MindGate

If cuss words are "just words" then one should be able to give them up as easily as others should be able to tolerate them.

But I shouldn't have to.

ravkes

Words are just words, still. Again, its just social taboo.

lol, if words were just words why aren't you telling all your teachers to f off? words carry weight, sometimes even more so than actions..