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Is there a certain demographic that is attracted to Buddhism in the West?

edited January 2011 in Buddhism Today
In my Sangha, obviously everyone has quite a bit in common but maybe the demographic also seems to be very similar i.e.:
- Educated usually at Masters of Ph.D. level
- Quite intellectual
- Wears similar clothes
- Have similar smelling farts (maybe its the lentils)
- Work in education, health or social work

There seems to be very few people from poorer working class backgrounds too. Has anyone else observed similar

Dr Spock = educated intellectual working in an educational environment who has smelly farts but is maybe a wee bit more fashionable than most Buddhists :)

Comments

  • ravkesravkes Veteran
    edited January 2011
    it's the farts man lol i can really let em rip

    :D
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    I know at least one American teacher who has expressed the hope that he could help steer Zen in the West away from being "a bunch of smart white guys." Whether he has been successful, I don't know.
  • edited January 2011
    Yea, it really is educated white guys, that's pretty accurate.
  • "guys"? Most of the sanghas and special courses I've participated in have had a predominantly female membership. How about you all?
  • musicians, artists, anarchists, writers; in general "the creative class".

    oh, and Mac users.
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited January 2011

    - Wears similar clothes
    Who doesn't wear similar clothes in America? If I'm not in scrubs for work, I'm in jeans and a t-shirt, or in the summer, shorts and a t-shirt. Sometimes I even wear shoes (and yes, I own Birkenstocks). Oh, and I drive a hybrid car and have been a Mac user since the 1980s.

    Does that make me fit the demographic profile? I think all of that just means that I'm capable of independent reasoning and thought.

    :)
  • Interesting.

    Many of the prominent "western" Buddhist organizations in Houston are either led or co-led by women.

  • oh, and Mac users.
    That goes without saying, doesn't it?

    image
    IndigoBlueSky9
  • this is what i have seen also. a lot of uppermddle class, working class etc are usually more traditional in following in their families religions and values. also i think something that is pretty new to the west like buddhism reaches educated people first? in time i think it will make its way into broader society.
  • Yeah, it's a shame really. Considering how well I tend to regard pseudo.creative types and pseudo-intellectual scum. Then again, I don't get when people label themselves as buddhists.
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    Ive seen many from Ex-gang members to Well spoken Pyschologists attend our centre
    the thing they all have in common though is they suffer.

  • hmm... I wonder if intellectual/artist types suffer more.

    It's possible, given their huge egos built around their brains. They may also have a superior ability/preference to imagine what they don't have or what they should be.
    IndigoBlueSky9
  • LOL! That is exactly the demography who is attracted to Christianity from where I come from. No kidding. :coffee:
    In my Sangha, obviously everyone has quite a bit in common but maybe the demographic also seems to be very similar i.e.:
    - Educated usually at Masters of Ph.D. level
    - Quite intellectual
    - Wears similar clothes
    - Have similar smelling farts (maybe its the lentils)
    - Work in education, health or social work

    There seems to be very few people from poorer working class backgrounds too. Has anyone else observed similar

    Dr Spock = educated intellectual working in an educational environment who has smelly farts but is maybe a wee bit more fashionable than most Buddhists :)
  • I hope Buddhists, in general, don't really think that highly of themselves.
  • There's a new movement based on the West Coast that's aimed at including people of color in Buddhism. They have a website: www.againstthestream.org They're mainly in LA but have affiliates of some sort in the Bay Area, and elsewhere around the country.
  • Well all of my family and I come from a working class background, so I guess I buck the trend that you are seeing. I do have a PhD however, so I guess I tick one of your boxes.
  • I always refer to Buddhists as liberal yuppies who eat health food.
  • There's a new movement based on the West Coast that's aimed at including people of color in Buddhism. They have a website: www.againstthestream.org They're mainly in LA but have affiliates of some sort in the Bay Area, and elsewhere around the country.
    Isn't that Noah Levine's sangha? I know they make a point of being progressive and inclusive, but are they specifically focused on being ethnically diverse? Coming from a background in the hardcore scene in the late 70s and early 80s, Dharma Punx was a lot of fun.
  • Yes, it is N. Levine's group, an outgrowth of DharmaPunx. They're also into doing charitable work, like running soup kitchens, which I assume involves serving an ethnically diverse public. They've also adopted Jack Kornfield's regs governing teacher-student relations. But they're practicing Theravadan Buddhism, they say. It sounds intriguing.
  • There's a new movement based on the West Coast that's aimed at including people of color in Buddhism. They have a website: www.againstthestream.org They're mainly in LA but have affiliates of some sort in the Bay Area, and elsewhere around the country.
    Metropolitan California is a very diverse place. So I think the diversity thing at ATS is more commonsense than ideology.

    FWIW, I think it would be interesting to see Buddhism (as a practice) catch on with Asian-Americans.
  • edited January 2011
    I grew up in the punk rock subculture. Strike one for Dharma Punx. I'm part Jewish. Strike two for "JuBus". However, I'm not rich enough to be a yuppie. I do work at Subway, but is that considered "health food" (I'd hope not..lol)?

    I've known people who practiced Buddhist teachings that were Jewish, Christian, atheist, asian, white, black, blah blah blah. We should celebrate our diversity, rather than focus on demographics. You know who is most attracted to Buddhism in the West? Buddhists. It's true. Look it up.

    Oh yeah, and @buddhajunkie, my best friend while I attended a local Lao/Thai wat was a Laotian-American Christian. Go figure.
    IndigoBlueSky9
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2011
    I saw a sticker in a car:
    "Buddhism: The perfect religion for the cognoscenti."

    It made me laugh at the time, but I think you do have to have a certain awareness, a certain knowledge, a certain level of connection with what's happening "outside" and "Inside" and how the two are inextricably linked and affect each other...
    Now, simply because there does seem to be a 'profile' that fits - does that make us bad? Questionable? elitist? egotistic?
    Would the question be better accepted if one were to ask - "how do we make Buddhism more widely and generally accepted without - putting it bluntly - 'dumbing it down'?"

    I happen to believe also, that cultural, historical and environmental factors play a huge role. That, and conditioning.
    Are British Buddhists different to American Buddhists? My conclusion is, they must be, in some ways.
    For a start, More British Buddhists have passports....!

    (Disclaimer: That was a joke....:rolleyes: :D )

    One difference seems to be that I have not, in the UK, encountered any huge difference in numbers of men/women adhering to, practising or following Buddhism. It seems relatively well divided, here. In fact, perhaps it does err more on the male than female....
  • edited January 2011
    "In fact, perhaps it does err more on the male than female...."

    Not when I used to be a TB practitioner, Federica. There were always more women than men at the courses and teachings that I attended.

    However it does seem to be more divided in the other direction in offline Theravada. (I'm not including monks though)
    .


  • FWIW, I think it would be interesting to see Buddhism (as a practice) catch on with Asian-Americans.
    Where do you live that it's not? We have huge temples here in Houston that are constantly busy, with almost 100% Asian-American membership.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2011
    "In fact, perhaps it does err more on the male than female...."

    Not when I used to be a TB practitioner, Federica. There were always more women than men at the courses and teachings that I attended.
    Tibetan Buddhism is a hierarchical tradition, and one I am not drawn to. I attended some talks and courses myself, and found an underlying, subtle tendency towards masculine presence being more important than female. Funny in light of how significant Tara is to TB's. I get the impression though, that she is viewed very much in the same way Catholics view the Virgin Mary. Front-line spokeswoman with authority, power or importance, but nevertheless a step down from the CEO.
    And the majority of those attending Catholic mass, outside of Italy - are female.
    However it does seem to be more divided in the other direction in offline Theravada. (I'm not including monks though)
    No, I wasn't either, I was specifically speaking with the proportional presence of laypeople, in mind, alone.

  • VincenziVincenzi Veteran
    edited January 2011

    oh, and Mac users.
    That goes without saying, doesn't it?

    image
    :D

    I feel less un-monk'ish by using a MacBook Pro.

  • hmm... I wonder if intellectual/artist types suffer more.

    It's possible, given their huge egos built around their brains. They may also have a superior ability/preference to imagine what they don't have or what they should be.
    Tool, (late) Samael and ("less buddhist") Therion... both use their art skills for expressing a message that is in many ways, dharmic.
  • edited January 2011

    Tibetan Buddhism is a hierarchical tradition, and one I am not drawn to. I attended some talks and courses myself, and found an underlying, subtle tendency towards masculine presence being more important than female. Funny in light of how significant Tara is to TB's. I get the impression though, that she is viewed very much in the same way Catholics view the Virgin Mary. Front-line spokeswoman with authority, power or importance, but nevertheless a step down from the CEO.
    I can understand that you are not drawn to it, but can you explain what you meant by a hierarchical tradition? There are no cardinals, bishops, diocesan priests, etc. in any of the schools. The only meaningful hierarchy is with one's own teacher. In fact, in the oldest school the Nyingma there was not even the idea of a head of the tradition until the last 40 years, which was prompted by the needs of preserving the tradition in the diaspora.

    Tara is viewed as the source of the buddhas, the personification of Prajnaparamita. In most tantric traditions, female yidams are of central importance to the philosophy and soteriology for that reason. Some of the most important lineages were started by women such as Niguma, Sukhasiddhi, Machigma, etc. The crucial terma tradition was part and parcel of the work of Yeshe Tsogyal in concealing appropriate teachings for future generations.

    Women must be viewed as embodiments of wisdom or the root vows of vajrayana are broken. Any bias towards men in Tibetan buddhism has to do with Tibetan culture rather than any basis within the teachings of vajrayana. As dharma has come to the West where women enjoy much greater equality and freedom than traditional eastern cultures, this emphasis on the divinity of women has definitely attracted a large number women practitioners and lamas. There is a long list of western women who are teaching and translating and very highly regarded:

    Tsultrim Allione
    Sarah Harding
    Chagdud Khandro
    Lama Tsering Everest
    Lama Willa Miller
    Sangye Khandro
    etc.

    I think we will see a quite evenly balanced tradition when it comes to gender as the Dharma takes root in the West. This is a wonderful thing that many ethnic Tibetan teachers that I have spoken to rejoice at.

  • Tool, (late) Samael and ("less buddhist") Therion... both use their art skills for expressing a message that is in many ways, dharmic.
    Therion was profoundly influenced by Buddhism through Charles Bennett. There is something to be said for the idea that any tradition that leads to realization is going to resemble any other in important ways.
  • @karmadorje Re:federica

    does druidic, wiccan and in general people that follow nature-based religions or philosophies are (or should be) drawn to the Dharma?

  • Tool, (late) Samael and ("less buddhist") Therion... both use their art skills for expressing a message that is in many ways, dharmic.
    Therion was profoundly influenced by Buddhism through Charles Bennett. There is something to be said for the idea that any tradition that leads to realization is going to resemble any other in important ways.
    which Charles Bennett?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bennett

    Therion / Sirius B / Call of Dagon (extract)

    "When you watch the sky
    You feel a longing from the stars
    Enter the limitless
    Answer the call you hear
    When you take the step
    To free yourself from modern life
    The sky will shine again"

    arupa jhānas anyone?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2011
    Karmadorje, I fully accept that any bias towards women is to do with culture, but as is often the case, the edges are blurred. Women are not permitted to become priests in Catholicism, and while there is very little domestic opposition or dissent, the majority of objectors to this stance are outside Italy.

    "There is a long list of western women who are teaching and translating and very highly regarded"

    Any Tibetan women there...? (I'm not being argumentative or controversial. It's a genuine question, because western practitioners are given Dharma names and as such their origin is obscured. Thanks!)

    Culture feeds religion and vice versa. It doesn't necessarily make everything wrong, but it's not necessarily right, either.
  • Those are all Western women who have been given authorization to teach by Tibetan masters. There are not very many ethnic Tibetan women teaching at this time but even that is changing (HE Jetsun Kushok, Khandro Rinpoche, etc). There are more Tibetan nuns now than at perhaps any time in history with organizational support growing. I also forgot to add Pema Chodron and Tenzin Palmo, two real luminaries in the Buddhist firmament. Tenzin Palmo faced considerable discrimination when she was younger and she is really blazing a trail for others to follow.

    I don't mean to excuse what is definitely an imbalance in historical Tibetan support for women in buddhist institutions, I just think that the West is redressing this imbalance with all haste to match our own cultural values and the inherent equality embodied in the vajrayana teachings themselves.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited January 2011
    rel="federica. I attended some talks and courses myself, and found an underlying, subtle tendency towards masculine presence being more important than female. Funny in light of how significant Tara is to TB's.

    Some say the Buddhist deity of Compassion originally was female, as Kuan Yin still is, but morphed to masculine in the Vajrayana tradition. June Campbell postulates that there was a supreme female deity, back when Tibet was matriarchal, called Manipadma. The meaning of the prayer, "Om, manipadma hum" originally was in praise of this female deity, she says.
  • rel="federica. I attended some talks and courses myself, and found an underlying, subtle tendency towards masculine presence being more important than female. Funny in light of how significant Tara is to TB's.
    Some say the Buddhist deity of Compassion originally was female, as Kuan Yin still is, but morphed to masculine in the Vajrayana tradition. June Campbell postulates that there was a supreme female deity, back when Tibet was matriarchal, called Manipadma. The meaning of the prayer, "Om, manipadma hum" originally was in praise of this female deity, she says.
    Padme from Star Wars... George Lucas is buddhist.

    ...I always tought the "ॐ mane padme ॐ" mantra was refering to a female boddhisattva (deity in vajrayana).


  • FWIW, I think it would be interesting to see Buddhism (as a practice) catch on with Asian-Americans.
    Where do you live that it's not? We have huge temples here in Houston that are constantly busy, with almost 100% Asian-American membership.
    I'm talking about meditation centers/groups, where most the participants are not "born into" Buddhism, but rather choose to study and practice (in particular, practice mindfulness).
  • I'm talking about meditation centers/groups, where most the participants are not "born into" Buddhism, but rather choose to study and practice (in particular, practice mindfulness).
    Hmmmmm. Not sure if that makes sense to me; If I had a temple where people spoke my language and shared my culture, why would I want to leave that and go to a practice center where most of the richness of Buddhist practice as I already know it is not present?

  • 1. because there are Asian-Americans who don't go to temples.

    2. because most Asian-Americans speak English and many, especially the young native-born ones, are familiar with American culture (possibly more so), and therefore they will possibly understand non-temple services better.

    3. because it may offer a richness that is absent from your current temple. This may particularly be the case if your temple does not emphasize mindfulness practices, such as meditation.

  • 1. because there are Asian-Americans who don't go to temples.

    2. because most Asian-Americans speak English and many, especially the young native-born ones, are familiar with American culture (possibly more so), and therefore they will possibly understand non-temple services better.

    3. because it may offer a richness that is absent from your current temple. This may particularly be the case if your temple does not emphasize mindfulness practices, such as meditation.
    OK, I understand better now. That narrows the target demographic range considerably. You are looking for Asian-Americans who are predisposed to buddhism, don't like ethnic temple services and are interested in mindfulness practice.

    I'm guessing that those in your target demographic either are showing up now or will show up when ready in those practice centers. If you aren't seeing them, either they don't exist, or they haven't reached a point of seeking out mindfulness practice yet.

  • edited January 2011
    The fart comment was repulsive.
  • My meditation group is mainly women, but working class rather than middle class. We're all white, except one lady who is Chinese. I also know an Indian couple through the sangha. There are few men, but those that remain tend to be very diligent in their practice. Many of us have chronic health problems, so suffering definitely seems to be something that unites us.
  • The fart comment was repulsive.
    Thank you, Roger.

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