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An afterlife? How do we even begin defining an afterlife when we can't even define ourselves in life?
What is it? Where did it come from? What's beyond it? This has become our box of containment! The reality is that the only thing we are ever able to prove is ourselves, it's absolutely brilliant!
How many lives need to be sacrificed through ignorance before we actually see what we are capable of?
How many lives do we need to believe we can live before we find expression in the one we are living now?
Is the person that you truly are content with all the absurdities that go on around you?
Are you trying to ask me if I know how many lives it will take for me to acheive enlightenment? If so, that is an unponderable.
You know, I always had a problem with Christianity.... It prays and waits for it's savior to come. The interesting thing is that Buddhism is just the same, only, it is waiting for it's own perfect state of itself to come.
Quite a leap of faith on both of them don't you think?...... But it's OK, I'm pretty sure your belief is the correct one!
Let's all hope so, because if we had the ability to change the entire face of existence right now and all indulge these beliefs waiting for the perfect moment, the perfect existence........ Wouldn't that be a terrible shame?
until youve perfected yourself theres not as much you can do for others,
There's plenty you can do for others, at whatever stage you find yourself, even if it's giving people a smile to brighten their day, helping the infirm across the street, offering a shoulder to lean on for a troubled friend. Practicing kindness helps us deepen our compassion, bringing us closer to the bodhisattva ideal.
until youve perfected yourself theres not as much you can do for others,
There's plenty you can do for others, at whatever stage you find yourself, even if it's giving people a smile to brighten their day, helping the infirm across the street, offering a shoulder to lean on for a troubled friend. Practicing kindness helps us deepen our compassion, bringing us closer to the bodhisattva ideal.
If I told you we could end all needless physical suffering, would you believe me?
If I told you we could create an existence that nurtured every mind and inspired it's true expression of passion and desire, would you believe me?
I find it strange that there seems to be a line, an aspect of distinction between being kind and compassionate, to being the expression of who we are. We accept an existence where our actions and expressions are so far from our own desire and passion. If we were set free in this, they would already embody compassion without having to think of it as a separate act.
It's like placing a bandaide on a gaping wound, replacing it as it becomes saturated...... If we are kind to the wound, maybe it won't bleed as much. Why we don't look to heal the wound is absurd!
What are the absurdities, and what is "the person that you truly are"? These are undefined terms and I don't know what you are talking about.
Anyone seen an absurdity around here?
Starvation Disease Poverty Greed Crime Garbage Pollution Where should I stop? ............ ............
How do you feel about these things? If you believe you are evolving to a different level of enlightenment, what would you think your enlightened state would feel about them?
What would both these aspects of you do about them?
Those "absurdities" are part of the world. There is always suffering in samsara. I "feel" that these external realities are not the base cause of one's suffering.
How could I possibly intellectualize and put into words the way an enlightened being "feels?" One's feelings of good, bad, or nuetral toward an external or internal phenomenon arise from the arising of contact, which itself arises from the senses, itself arising from name and form, itself arising from consciousness, itself arising from volitional actions, itself arising from ignorance.
Your questions are elementary and ostentatious and I don't know where to begin.
let me help you out here with some examples.......
I feel these things are useless and extremely damaging to the true expression of humanity.
Or
I feel these are necessary aspects of reflection towards achieving knowledge, when society has collectively gained such knowledge, they will in due time evolve past these absurdities.
Or
No single expression can overcome these absurdities, so the importance is focusing on the enlightenment of my own mind.
Those "absurdities" are part of the world. There is always suffering in samsara. I "feel" that these external realities are not the base cause of one's suffering.
Those "absurdities" are part of the world. There is always suffering in samsara. I "feel" that these external realities are not the base cause of one's suffering.
They are part of the world? No changing that? Always suffering?
You do understand the problem associated with this concept, that such a belief does nothing to change that; it in effect, actually ensures that it does continue.
Quite a leap of faith!
What if, in a world of oppression, the only possible way of dealing with suffering is to change the perception of it in the mind? If we have been conditioned and evolved these two into one being, the oppressed and the oppressor, does the mind now fight against itself in what we are physically able to achieve?
Study the temporal aspect of Buddhism, what was the social construct by which it was developed?
How could I possibly intellectualize and put into words the way an enlightened being "feels?" One's feelings of good, bad, or nuetral toward an external or internal phenomenon arise from the arising of contact, which itself arises from the senses, itself arising from name and form, itself arising from consciousness, itself arising from volitional actions, itself arising from ignorance.
Your questions are elementary and ostentatious and I don't know where to begin.
How could you ever begin to know the point when you became enlightened? Is it like a kitchen timer that goes off and lets you know? DING!
You're sitting around waiting for yourself to show up..... Wake up, you're right here!
The reason there is trash on the ground is because someone threw it there and didnt pick it up. The reason people are sick is because viruses and bacteria have infected them. The reason there is crime is because people are angry, greedy, and delusional.
You are making this more complicated than it is. These external things can be resolved through hard work, compassion, intelligence, and understanding. Suffering can be resolved through the 8-fold path.
How could I ever begin to know what I would be like if I were enlightened?
Do you understand the passive nature in the question alone ensures that you never will..... This is where you have to believe in another life, are you kidding me?
Again like a broken record...... Quite a leap of faith!
The reason there is trash on the ground is because someone threw it there and didnt pick it up. The reason people are sick is because viruses and bacteria have infected them. The reason there is crime is because people are angry, greedy, and delusional.
You are making this more complicated than it is. These external things can be resolved through hard work, compassion, intelligence, and understanding. Suffering can be resolved through the 8-fold path.
You believe it is difficult because that is what your mind tells you to believe.
Chasing our tails with nothing to show for it...... That's difficult! Everything we do now is difficult.
Finding the true expression of yourself and living every moment of that desire and passion is effortless.
You project all these things upon "someone".... "people"...... When do you decide to see the expression of who you have always been? When do you understand that if you could actually become that expression, it would become a brilliance that enveloped EVERY life and EVERY mind?
Why do you think I am here? Do you think I am here to enter into this endless diatribe of static?
Do we indulge in an aspect of belief that proves itself time and time again to be a leap of faith, or do we begin taking responsibility for every aspect by which we deny our own expression?
It's hard to let go and run free beyond the security of our beliefs! If you could see who you are in that freedom, you would never look away...... Not a single life would!
We have been conditioned over many generations of oppression, now we can't conceptualize anything else, projecting upon any aspect of containment we could ever conceive... Even going as far as calling it freedom!
Taking responsibility for ones actions or more importantly lack of action, certainly might sound crazy to you, I understand that... I also understand why!
And yes, certainly after showing the overwhelming examples concerning the leap of faith surrounding Buddhism; I surely sound like a scientologist in disguise.... You got me!
Is this Buddhism in practice here where to call me a crazy person would not be considered compassionate, but disguise it in a question and it becomes acceptable?
You have plenty to address, if what I am saying is so outside the realm of reason, you should have plenty of opportunity to further strengthen your belief and provide knowledge to a mind like mine that is clearly in a state of delusion. As far as compassion is concerned, you missed the target wide on that one! Lets adhere to a responsible aspect of communication and take responsibility for the way we conduct ourselves. Considering your own representation of who you are, I shouldn't have to be saying this.
The way that you are expressing yourself is difficult for me to understand. On top of it, you seem to be trying to refute basic buddhist tenets that I am explaining to you. In no way am I trying to be confrontational, misleading, or demeaning. My previous statement was rude, and I apologize. I just have a very hard time figuring out what you are trying to say.
I want you to ponder something, is the difficulty figuring out what I am saying because of the words you adhere to as truth? Do those words themselves offer no room for anything else? I ask this, because I'd gladly go into more depth, or clarify contextual value to anything I have said; just point out where you would like me to do so..... This also applies if I state something that has misinterpreted your belief, it would help for you to clarify that!
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Before enlightenment, fetch water, chop wood. After enlightenment, chop water, fetch wood. It's a skill, you know....:D
Are we still on topic guys, because I have to confess, you have totally lost me....! :wtf:
revolutionary, youre showing some kind of overactive mind/imagination that is frankly quite hard to follow, even when i read it slowly, this is exactly the kind of suffering that meditation offers a cure for, meditation teaches you to be able to stop your mind from thinking; entirely, for periods of time so you can actually hear or sense outside influences like the buddha or the emptiness, basically you are wasting our time and taking other devout people away from a very interesting topic which basically now isnt being read because of your ramblings, take a break, maybe even write some of your ideas down, and try to put 5 posts into one simpler post, then we may be willing to listen to you and possibly answer some of your questions, sincerely john
Buddhism is just the same, only, it is waiting for it's own perfect state of itself to come.
No, we do not wait for the perfect state but we have to work for it
Is the person that you truly are, content with all the absurdities that go on around you?
if we are not at perfect state yet we are not content with the "absurdities" that go on around us however, one who is at perfect state is content because such one knows that what we call "absurdities" are not real, and they are changing all the time
If I told you we could end all needless physical suffering, would you believe me?
if you referring to the suffering of others then answer is No if you referring to the suffering of yourself/myself then again answer is No
If I told you we could create an existence that nurtured every mind and inspired it's true expression of passion and desire, would you believe me?
No
Anyone seen an absurdity around here?
Starvation Disease Poverty Greed Crime Garbage Pollution Where should I stop? ............ ............
Yes
How do you feel about these things?
If you believe you are evolving to a different level of enlightenment, what would you think your enlightened state would feel about them?
they are changing nature , if there is anything that i can be a help at the level of my capacity i would do that and otherwise i would let it go reminding myself that i can not change the world to the extent of my liking
What would both these aspects of you do about them?
the difference lies with me to the level of my enlightenment (suffering/contentment) not with the situation (eradicating the absurdities as you say)
Ponder for a moment, and try to envision, what would your absolute state of enlightenment, feel about the same absurdities?
no suffering for the person enlightened
What would you do in response where these two separate examples are given?
it depends on how i meet the situation and what capacity i have to work with at that time
They are part of the world? No changing that? Always suffering?
Suffering is the whole world, not just part of the world
Do you think, wealthy people do not suffer? Do you think young and healthy people do not suffer? what is your definition of suffering? please tell us
How could you ever begin to know the point when you became enlightened? Is it like a kitchen timer that goes off and lets you know?
if i explain the experience of jumping over a bridge, can you know it without jumping? it is like that. Buddha's Teaching explain how to work for it and if you work for it you will know Buddha shows the path, you have to walk and see and reach the destination
How could I ever begin to know what I would be like if I were enlightened?
beforehand you can not know because we can only know what our mind are programmed us to know
How many lives need to be sacrificed through ignorance before we actually see what we are capable of?
you can do it in this life itself if you try to gain the wisdom
How many lives do we need to believe we can live before we find expression in the one we are living now?
if you meditate you can see it yourself without getting any help from anywhere or from anyone
Is the person that you truly are content with all the absurdities that go on around you?
to come to that stage we (i) have to work more i can assure you that you will never regret if you start to walk on the path now
step one: read and listen about Buddha's Teaching with open mind step two: think about whether there is a truth in it step three: ask someone who knows about meditation (first about concentration meditation and then about insight meditation) step three: practice meditation (you do not know at the moment how long you have been doing meditation in your past lives so there is a possibility that you do not need to work on concentration meditation for a long time and you will be able to start insight meditation without no time, then you yourself will get answers to most of your questions)
...and I remember past lives, forgeting doesn't apply to all.
I would like to remember, yet it doesn't come to mind. I have a poor memory for relative things, if the whim takes me I might perform exercises to strengthen my memory. I've had some hints in dreams but not the memory to retain. Maybe one day.
Comments
How do we even begin defining an afterlife when we can't even define ourselves in life?
What is it? Where did it come from? What's beyond it?
This has become our box of containment!
The reality is that the only thing we are ever able to prove is ourselves, it's absolutely brilliant!
Perhaps you haven't figured out where to look yet?
how many times of what?
how many lives?
who I truly am?
A lot of people call me Travis. I think your questions are strange and disorganized and a little pretentious. What are you trying to get at?
How many lives do we need to believe we can live before we find expression in the one we are living now?
Is the person that you truly are content with all the absurdities that go on around you?
The interesting thing is that Buddhism is just the same, only, it is waiting for it's own perfect state of itself to come.
Quite a leap of faith on both of them don't you think?...... But it's OK, I'm pretty sure your belief is the correct one!
Let's all hope so, because if we had the ability to change the entire face of existence right now and all indulge these beliefs waiting for the perfect moment, the perfect existence........ Wouldn't that be a terrible shame?
Quite a leap of faith!
Lets start with pondering this question, I would like to know your answer to this!
If I told you we could create an existence that nurtured every mind and inspired it's true expression of passion and desire, would you believe me?
I find it strange that there seems to be a line, an aspect of distinction between being kind and compassionate, to being the expression of who we are.
We accept an existence where our actions and expressions are so far from our own desire and passion. If we were set free in this, they would already embody compassion without having to think of it as a separate act.
It's like placing a bandaide on a gaping wound, replacing it as it becomes saturated...... If we are kind to the wound, maybe it won't bleed as much. Why we don't look to heal the wound is absurd!
Starvation
Disease
Poverty
Greed
Crime
Garbage
Pollution
Where should I stop?
............
............
How do you feel about these things?
If you believe you are evolving to a different level of enlightenment, what would you think your enlightened state would feel about them?
What would both these aspects of you do about them?
#2... Ponder for a moment, and try to envision, what would your absolute state of enlightenment, feel about the same absurdities?
What would you do in response where these two separate examples are given?
How could I possibly intellectualize and put into words the way an enlightened being "feels?" One's feelings of good, bad, or nuetral toward an external or internal phenomenon arise from the arising of contact, which itself arises from the senses, itself arising from name and form, itself arising from consciousness, itself arising from volitional actions, itself arising from ignorance.
Your questions are elementary and ostentatious and I don't know where to begin.
I feel these things are useless and extremely damaging to the true expression of humanity.
Or
I feel these are necessary aspects of reflection towards achieving knowledge, when society has collectively gained such knowledge, they will in due time evolve past these absurdities.
Or
No single expression can overcome these absurdities, so the importance is focusing on the enlightenment of my own mind.
Or
?
You do understand the problem associated with this concept, that such a belief does nothing to change that; it in effect, actually ensures that it does continue.
Quite a leap of faith!
What if, in a world of oppression, the only possible way of dealing with suffering is to change the perception of it in the mind?
If we have been conditioned and evolved these two into one being, the oppressed and the oppressor, does the mind now fight against itself in what we are physically able to achieve?
Study the temporal aspect of Buddhism, what was the social construct by which it was developed?
You're sitting around waiting for yourself to show up..... Wake up, you're right here!
The reason there is trash on the ground is because someone threw it there and didnt pick it up.
The reason people are sick is because viruses and bacteria have infected them.
The reason there is crime is because people are angry, greedy, and delusional.
You are making this more complicated than it is. These external things can be resolved through hard work, compassion, intelligence, and understanding. Suffering can be resolved through the 8-fold path.
Do you understand the passive nature in the question alone ensures that you never will..... This is where you have to believe in another life, are you kidding me?
Again like a broken record...... Quite a leap of faith!
Chasing our tails with nothing to show for it...... That's difficult!
Everything we do now is difficult.
Finding the true expression of yourself and living every moment of that desire and passion is effortless.
You project all these things upon "someone".... "people"...... When do you decide to see the expression of who you have always been? When do you understand that if you could actually become that expression, it would become a brilliance that enveloped EVERY life and EVERY mind?
Why do you think I am here?
Do you think I am here to enter into this endless diatribe of static?
If you could see who you are in that freedom, you would never look away...... Not a single life would!
We have been conditioned over many generations of oppression, now we can't conceptualize anything else, projecting upon any aspect of containment we could ever conceive... Even going as far as calling it freedom!
And yes, certainly after showing the overwhelming examples concerning the leap of faith surrounding Buddhism; I surely sound like a scientologist in disguise.... You got me!
Is this Buddhism in practice here where to call me a crazy person would not be considered compassionate, but disguise it in a question and it becomes acceptable?
You have plenty to address, if what I am saying is so outside the realm of reason, you should have plenty of opportunity to further strengthen your belief and provide knowledge to a mind like mine that is clearly in a state of delusion.
As far as compassion is concerned, you missed the target wide on that one!
Lets adhere to a responsible aspect of communication and take responsibility for the way we conduct ourselves.
Considering your own representation of who you are, I shouldn't have to be saying this.
I want you to ponder something, is the difficulty figuring out what I am saying because of the words you adhere to as truth?
Do those words themselves offer no room for anything else?
I ask this, because I'd gladly go into more depth, or clarify contextual value to anything I have said; just point out where you would like me to do so..... This also applies if I state something that has misinterpreted your belief, it would help for you to clarify that!
After enlightenment, chop water, fetch wood.
It's a skill, you know....:D
Are we still on topic guys, because I have to confess, you have totally lost me....! :wtf:
however, one who is at perfect state is content because such one knows that what we call "absurdities" are not real, and they are changing all the time if you referring to the suffering of others then answer is No
if you referring to the suffering of yourself/myself then again answer is No
If I told you we could create an existence that nurtured every mind and inspired it's true expression of passion and desire, would you believe me?
No Yes If you believe you are evolving to a different level of enlightenment, what would you think your enlightened state would feel about them?
they are changing nature , if there is anything that i can be a help at the level of my capacity i would do that and otherwise i would let it go reminding myself that i can not change the world to the extent of my liking the difference lies with me to the level of my enlightenment (suffering/contentment)
not with the situation (eradicating the absurdities as you say) no suffering for the person enlightened it depends on how i meet the situation and what capacity i have to work with at that time Suffering is the whole world, not just part of the world
Do you think, wealthy people do not suffer?
Do you think young and healthy people do not suffer?
what is your definition of suffering?
please tell us if i explain the experience of jumping over a bridge, can you know it without jumping?
it is like that.
Buddha's Teaching explain how to work for it and if you work for it you will know
Buddha shows the path, you have to walk and see and reach the destination beforehand you can not know because we can only know what our mind are programmed us to know you can do it in this life itself if you try to gain the wisdom if you meditate you can see it yourself without getting any help from anywhere or from anyone to come to that stage we (i) have to work more
i can assure you that you will never regret if you start to walk on the path now
step one: read and listen about Buddha's Teaching with open mind
step two: think about whether there is a truth in it
step three: ask someone who knows about meditation (first about concentration meditation and then about insight meditation)
step three: practice meditation (you do not know at the moment how long you have been doing meditation in your past lives so there is a possibility that you do not need to work on concentration meditation for a long time and you will be able to start insight meditation without no time,
then you yourself will get answers to most of your questions)
Cheers, WK