Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Why do Nichiren Buddhists just tell you to "chant about it" to fix your problems?

edited January 2011 in Buddhism Basics
Somehow when you chant you're practicing some sort of introspection and magically you'll just COME UP with an idea when it comes to solving a problem. Sorry but WTF lol Any thoughts?

Comments

  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    I have no idea really about Nichiren Buddhism other then it involves alot of chanting. Now this doesnt suit everyone, some people may prefer a more practical oriented path rather the the Nichiren approach.

  • Nichiren Buddhists follow a practice of faith or devotion, centered around the Lotus Sutra mostly. There are several such schools of Buddhism, where devotion plays a central part. Pure Land and some lay Tibetan practices come to mind.

    For a practice focused on devotion, faith is its own end, and the cultivation of faith is the driving force behind their Buddhism. For many people in traditionally Buddhist cultures, simple devotion, prayers and offerings to Buddha and other Bodhisattva figures pretty much defines their practice. It's the human instinct to do SOMETHING when we feel helpless in life. Who among us hasn't felt the same way?
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    chanting can be a form of meditation. i think that you would be surprised just how often we think about our problems with ourselves taken out of the equation. we think, "this person is doing this to me!" or "why is this happening to me?" but we don't often consider what role we may have played in this. through introspection, i frequently have been able to find answers to my problems that were simply things i could have done or should do or sometimes i'm simply letting something bother me when i shouldn't.

    however, in my experience, there are those that take the "chanting about your problems" to the level of believing that via chant, you access some sort of mystical ability and have an effect on the universe at large. it was frequently explained to me that this is why nam-myoho-renge-kyo is called "the mystic law"

    i have several years experience with the nichiren tradition through the SGI and although i have now left that path, i still try and be respectful of their teachings as others on this board may still practice.
  • I have been practicing Nichiren Buddhism for 30 years.

    I will tell you what was told to me when I first began my practice. It does work; you can prove it to yourself. Just like lifting weights, no belief is required, only action. If you DO the practice, as prescribed, you WILL see results.

    That said, if you don't want to practice, then don't. Only you can decide whether the return (results) is worth your investment (of time and effort) or not.
  • I chant Diamoku and find it very helpful. One thing I have noticed in Nichiren meetings is that people stick with it for a long time, like Engyo.

    I get the impression many of the more traditional schools can be a bit snooty and snobish about Nichiren. Not sure why.

  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    edited January 2011
    I met a woman once who had recently quit her fairly-new Nichiren practice. When I asked her why, she told me that her expressed desire was to penetrate and actualize the gohonzon had been met with suggestions that she would be better off chanting for a television set or a car.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    Chanting is a very effective meditation practice. The way I see it, it gets rid of your problems because your problems are made by your mind. When your mind stops making problems, it stops having problems. You don't need to come up with an ANSWER to solve a problem. All that needs to happen is for your mind to stop perceiving a situation as a problem to begin with. If you don't perceive the situation as a problem, then it's not a problem after all but rather simply a situation. Focusing your mind on chanting and just chanting temporarily causes your mind to stop making problems, or perceiving situations as problems, thereby temporarily causing you to have no problems. The problems come back after but they now have less and less power because, during chanting, you saw them disappear. After a while of seeing them disappear, one starts to realize that they don't necessarily have to come back. As one advances in their practice, the problems stop coming back and the end result is that you have no problems anymore. There's nothing mystical about it. It's more like psychology in that it simply changes how your mind perceives things. If you label something as a problem, then it's a problem. If you don't label some particular thing as a problem, then that particular thing is not a problem. It has nothing to do with magic per say. It's simply a matter of perception.
  • As the mind calms down, answers do naturally arise. I have experienced this with samatha meditation on mindfulness of the breath. You can experience this with chanting if you do it right. I've never tried chanting as a meditation though.
  • Chanting, counting breaths, gazing at a candle flame... these are all methods to settle the mind and allow it to break free of all that thinking, thinking, thinking (as Lama Chime calls it) which is so often the root of our problems rather than the solution.

    Having calmed our minds, by whatever practice we use, we are then more able to see the situation clearly. Often my experience has been that following meditation, the solutions to problems will suddenly present themselves. I believe this is because I have opened my mind and allowed it to function on a better level.

    Nicheren people say chant, Zen people say sit on a cushion, Tibetans... well, we tend to have a whole variety of different practices we use in different circumstances, all with pretty similar aims, to be honest.
  • I met a woman once who had recently quit her fairly-new Nichiren practice. When I asked her why, she told me that her expressed desire was to penetrate and actualize the gohonzon had been met with suggestions that she would be better off chanting for a television set or a car.
    Yeah, that's always a problem. One of the most common Nichrien schools teaches this way, and unfortunately tends to make people view the entire tradition from that perspective.

    Other Nichiren schools teach a much wider view, with a much more recognizable approach to the Dharma as a whole; but we are not as widespread, and lots of people end up with a dismissive attitude but missing some crucial facts.

    Namaste, Engyo

  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    I met a woman once who had recently quit her fairly-new Nichiren practice. When I asked her why, she told me that her expressed desire was to penetrate and actualize the gohonzon had been met with suggestions that she would be better off chanting for a television set or a car.
    Yeah, that's always a problem. One of the most common Nichrien schools teaches this way, and unfortunately tends to make people view the entire tradition from that perspective.

    Other Nichiren schools teach a much wider view, with a much more recognizable approach to the Dharma as a whole; but we are not as widespread, and lots of people end up with a dismissive attitude but missing some crucial facts.

    Namaste, Engyo

    the problem (and sometimes good thing) about the SGI is that they are not run by any sort of leaders. they have community centers set up in most major cities, so you will find that each community is shaped by its members. and sometimes... those members can have wrong views. i had both types in my group.

    i still chant from time to time and read The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin as i still feel there are some very profound teachings.

    to the OP- if you are interested in the nichiren tradition, i would pick up a copy of this book (sometimes called 'The Gosho') as it is quite interesting. the entire thing is a collection of letters that Nichiren wrote to his followers during thirteenth century japan. he offers sound advice as well as some interesting history. his life was not dull.
  • Chanting is a very effective meditation practice.
    Chanting, counting breaths, gazing at a candle flame... these are all methods to settle the mind and allow it to break free of all that thinking, thinking,
    Yes, chanting could be meditation, just like gazing at a candle or just sitting could be meditation... or it could just be being lazy or wasting time.

    It is how you go about chanting, what mindset and mind actions you take, that determines whether it is a skillful meditation.

    If no more instruction is given on how to chant and you're just making noises, then I doubt chanting would lead to much insight. Certainly not more than standard vipassana meditation (unless you get really lucky). It might be relaxing, but then again so is having a beer.
  • Sometimes just putting you into that relaxed state can help clear a lot of mental clutter that you find the answer you need.
  • Sometimes just putting you into that relaxed state can help clear a lot of mental clutter that you find the answer you need.
    :thumbsup:
  • Nichiren Buddhists follow a practice of faith or devotion, centered around the Lotus Sutra mostly.
    The Lotus Sutra explained a royal house is on fire, and the royal kids were in there enjoying those Toys"R"Us without realizing its gradual burning effect. The royal house symbolizes your mind while the fire is its devastating blow that wiping out the beautiful house. Chanting is providing the similar effects of dousing this fire.
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    Nichiren Buddhists follow a practice of faith or devotion, centered around the Lotus Sutra mostly.
    The Lotus Sutra explained a royal house is on fire, and the royal kids were in there enjoying those Toys"R"Us without realizing its gradual burning effect. The royal house symbolizes your mind while the fire is its devastating blow that wiping out the beautiful house. Chanting is providing the similar effects of dousing this fire.
    i thought the point of the parable of the burning house was that we are so wrapped up with our shiny trinkets of samsara, we can't even realize the house is burning.
  • No it actually works. I am mentally ill and I was suffering and I paced around the room saying "please buddha save me" "buddha" "buddha" "buddha" and it made me feel better. Another time I regretted some bad things in my life very deeply that I fealt responsible for and I chanted "I am sorry, I am sorry, I am sorry, I am sorry"

    So I think chanting helps. Maybe some people are more advanced than I am at their chants? Maybe some people it doesn't help really, but they wish it would so they keep doing it?
  • "The Lotus Sutra explained a royal house is on fire, and the royal kids were in there enjoying those Toys"R"Us without realizing its gradual burning effect. The royal house symbolizes your mind while the fire is its devastating blow that wiping out the beautiful house. Chanting is providing the similar effects of dousing this fire."

    How did you know my laundry piled up because I was playing video games?
  • I'm not a Nichiren Buddhist, but I have a couple of online friends who are, and they're great people but follow a unique practice. I know the immediate reaction to hearing about the importance of chanting for what they want in their lives is to assign it to a category of meditation, but that's not being fair to them. Theirs is a practice of devotion and faith to the Buddha through the Lotus Sutra. Chanting doesn't just focus their mind, it changes the reality of their lives. It is a path to miracles.

    I see it the same as someone telling me Zen is just learning to doubt everything. It's so much more than that. I could never follow a Nichiren practice, but I have to bow to their devotion.
  • Saying the words isn't the key; it's the intention behind them. One puts that energy, that intention, and suffuses the mind with it. The mind follows after the intentions. :D It doesn't matter what the words are, they could be complete gibberish. There's no external force listening.
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited January 2011
    Somehow when you chant you're practicing some sort of introspection and magically you'll just COME UP with an idea when it comes to solving a problem. Sorry but WTF lol Any thoughts?
    Whats going on here is your understanding of Buddhism/meditation is too primitive to be able to understand passed the superficial level. So some things appear absurd, strange, pointless or silly to you.
    When you understand that you have no problems, so there are no problems to solve, only situations in which you happen to be alive in. Then this practice, and all spiritual practices and techniques to free yourself will begin to make sense to you.

    Please don't pay too much attention to your knee jerk reactions "this look silly wtf lol haha" and keep on studying and practicing. You may want to avoid doing the stuff that you find silly for now, just remember that tomorrow you may feel much different about some of theses things based on a deeper understanding that you may eventually find.
  • I was very excited about Nichiren when I first started practicing and learning, but soon I got a different opinion...(after I tattooed Namyohorengekyo on my foot!) Nichiren believed that the Buddhist teachings were failing and he figured out a better way. I disagree with this attitude and left that practice for Zazen. :)
  • I don't think Nichiren thought the buddhist teachings were failing, but he thought that some sutras were more appropriate for the time than others. His position and teachings were totally based on his understanding of buddhist thought so whatever you make of it it is a mistake to see him as rejecting buddhism.

    To the original questioner: perhaps part of the answer is consistency of cause and effect. 'Solving' a problem in a lower life-state will ultimately reproduce the same type of cause, and you will go around in circles, deepening the karma. It is important to come up with the solution from a wiser, more compassionate, more courageous perspective than the one that got you into the problem in the first place.

    It's a well-known saying that the same mentality that created the problem cannot solve it. Hence, we chant about problems largely because we find it raises our mentality in this way. You don't have to believe this but I don't understand why you think it's ridiculous.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    This thread is over a year old.... Some members are no longer here....
    Perhaps, @englishbreakfasttea, you might like to start a new one under the 'Modern Buddhism' forum.... ;)
This discussion has been closed.