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"Buddha asked us to consider our actions and its consequences so that we may reduce the suffering of ourselves and others. If we are filling our mind with violence by playing violent video games, this can have consequences that are every bit as powerful as 'physical' violence itself.
Games can also be highly addictive, and hence a serious challenge to non-attachment."
So I take it if you had children you would not let them watch bugs bunny and power rangers. Ok. Interesting interpretation of the dharma. Good luck. Or play paddy cake. Or monopoly.
Firstly, Bugs Bunny & Power Rangers? You are way out of date on kid's shows
Secondly and more seriously -- yes i do have kids (3 years & 1 month old), and yes i most certainly am aware of a) the amount of 'screen time' the older one has (this includes TV, computer, phones etc) and, and b) the content of that screen time - for example, I would never let him watch a show that was inappropriately violent. Does this mean he never sees someone having a fight or getting hit on TV? No, of course not. As you allude, cartoons are full of that stuff. But this in a cartoon the 'world' is plastic, flexible, etc, and ultimately no-one is really hurt. Most kids shows actually have no violence whatsoever - because they know it's not good for kids to watch!
Compare this to a video game where the player is required, as part of that game, to repeatedly commit violent acts (shooting, killing people) that are shown in a realistic way. Big, big, difference.
@ShiftPlusOne - go for it! I'm open to persuasion Just to be clear, my main assertions are that a) a game, being 'interactive', is a more mentally involving experience than passively watching something, and b) that 'splapstick violence' is less violent than 'real' violence because no one gets hurt, and c) i think watching too much TV (violent or not) is not good for kids - or adults.
@Jeffrey - me neither. they are probably the most violent of all. i saw a clip for one where you actually had to mow down a bunch of innocent people at an airport with a machine gun (apparently because you were pretending to be a terrorist or something). anyway just watching a short clip of it made me feel terrible. i can't imagine actually playing it and the effect it would have on you. the scary part is, i'm sure many people who play these games are not aware of the effect these experiences can have on us. as for LOTR/HP - my 3yo can't read yet but no i wouldn't let him watch them at his age - waaay to scary. later on, sure.
Oh I would wait till like 8 for harry potter and 10 for Lord of Rings but what do I know?
The games I play glorify 'power' more than violence. You try to make your character powerful by the 'build' which is composed of a series of choices in design elements. For example you can choose between a fireball that splits in two or one that explodes.
Most of the fun for me is seeing how my plan which was quite creative and fun to develope pans out in practice. I also enjoy the graphics and music and 'arcade' aspects.
I don't think I enjoy the violence but it is a showcase for those other elements. I also have enjoyed sims type games (years ago) where you plan a city and that didn't involve violence other than natural disasters.
I loved SIMCity when it first came out - was actually quite addicted to it. These days, 90% of the time i play FIFA. I'm a big football (soccer) fan.
I don't think there is clear 'rule' on this topic. Like everything, it comes down to personal interpretation and people will always have views on what is and isn't acceptable.
My main point on violence in general, and violent games in particular, is that, as Buddhists, we should at least try to be aware of the effect on our minds of spending hours and hours in a violent environment, even if it is only a simulated one.
I agree. I spend a lot of time because I am disabled and it is a surrogate for something for me to work hard at other than raising a family or a career. A lot of my friends I have never met in real life, but I know from gaming with them and also 'off topic' sharing on forums.
I guess I can see people criticizing the karmapa but we don't know all the facts and I think some people are forgetting that the karmapa has studied buddhism since age 3 with the best teachers in his tradition. So he has probably thought about these things himself. And in my opinion people have an expectation for the karmapa that is sort of based on an idealized vision rather than experience based dharma practice. And finally many are failing to realize that there are differences between Tibetan Buddhism and Therevada Buddhism. I react to these threads because I have love and respect for the Karmapa and it is upsetting to hear him I think misunderstood. Its not so much that people disagree with him playing video games but I think that they have this sort of vibe like 'oh those tibetan hooligans'. Its kind of disrespectuful or at least thats how I perceive it.
Part of it has to do with a high lama on a pedestal. And part with the devotional practice of Tibetan Buddhism which I feel a lot of westerners don't understand. The karmapa represents the lineage of awakened beings.
An example from the Tibetan tradition:
The Benefits of Prostrations Summary: Lama Shenpen gives a very full response to a question about the benefits and spiritual effects of prostrations.
A student writes:
I would like some more indications of the benefits of prostration practice. I have not understood what spiritual effects are likely to unfold particularly, so, any hints in this respect will be gratefully received.
I just note in me so far a dedication and intention to do prostrations to assist me with the ego and an interest to actually learn more their significance, if that makes sense.
Lama Shenpen replies:
Yes it does. I think the full and whole hearted involvement of ones body, speech and mind/heart in the prostration is highly significant.
Somehow doing things physically and verbally helps the mind relax into the movement of the heart in the direction of opening up to our deepest source of inspiration. This source of inspiration and adhistana is both in us and in the Universe, which is reaching out to us in the form of the lineage of Awakened Beings.
So physically and verbally opening allows the heart to open naturally. Mentally we need to be focused on the meaning of what we are prostrating or opening our hearts to in this way. If a visual image is the most effective way of focusing in this way then visualise the Buddhas, the teachers of the lineage, the Dharma and the Sangha in whatever way inspires you. Otherwise simply remember what is inspiring about them - and even better verbalise those qualities and why you are prostrating to them.
One way to verbalise it is to say 'I take Refuge in the Buddha, the Awakened Ones who reveal the eternal fearless path,' I take Refuge in the Dharma, the goal of Nirvana and the path that leads to it. I take Refuge in the Sangha, those who have verified this Dharma for themselves and all their followers who show the way.' You can make up words like that or use different forms of the Refuge prayer such as the ones you used in the actual Refuge ceremony.
Remember the instruction that as you touch you hands to your head, throat and heart and bow putting your head on the floor you think in this way you confess and lay down all your negative tendencies in regard to your bodily actions, speech and thoughts, praying that all this karma fall away and that as you rise all the wonderful qualities of the Buddha’s body, speech and mind are awakened in you. As you do this try to do it with as much conviction as you can muster that this is actually happening. Somehow all times and places interpenetrate and you are instantly there at the end of the path, even as you set out at the beginning.
Think of your father on your right and your mother on your left and that they are prostrating with you - with all beings all around you, the beings of the six realms; you are doing it for all of them.
This makes an auspicious connection for them all. Really let your awareness open out into space and into the deepest insight into emptiness that you can muster, feeling happy and glad because of the connection and the adhistana* of the practice.
All the elements of Living the Awakened Heart are included in this practice and so all the benefits of all those elements. You are making very powerful pranidhanas* and generating immense punya*, and dedicating it for all beings - which is love and compassion for all beings; devotion and compassion together in one movement.......and renunciation of ego tendencies of course.
Well that is just some of the benefits!
Glossary:
Adhistana: Sustaining power, grace, blessing.
Pranidhana: A prayer that is like a blessing or curse, in the sense that somebody powerful utters their word of truth and this wish has the power of fulfilment.
Punya: Positive energy that by dedication to the benefit and Enlightenment of others is the source and means of the energy to realise Buddhahood
Buddha asked us to consider our actions and its consequences so that we may reduce the suffering of ourselves and others. If we are filling our mind with violence by playing violent video games, this can have consequences that are every bit as powerful as 'physical' violence itself.
Games can also be highly addictive, and hence a serious challenge to non-attachment.
There are all levels of violence, but the deepest is violent interpretation of skillful means. This realm is inherently frictional, and a tantric master has abilities to turn from within, what seems to be violence on the outside into calm abiding within as skillful means of learning how to deal with pensive situations in a way that is considered abnormal to the vast majority of the human population.
You are projecting your own experience of things onto a being that might have a higher and deeper intuitive interpretation of situations that effect you in an adverse way.
"in the universal womb that is boundless space all forms of matter and energy occur as flux of the four elements, but all are empty forms, absent in reality: all phenomena, arising in pure mind, are like that.
just as dream is a part of sleep, unreal in its arising, so all and everything is pure mind, never separated from it, and without substance or attribute.
experience is neither mind nor anything but mind; it is a vivid display of emptiness, like magical illusion, in the very moment inconceivable and unutterable. all experience arising in the mind, at its inception, know it as emptiness!" — Longchenpa - Dzogchen Master from the early 1300's
Vajrayana is more radical a view than Theravada. If one is attached to the Theradin view of Buddhism, then one is of course not going to be able to understand the methods of Vajrayana.
Karmapa is a very deeply realized human being, far beyond the capacity of normal civilization. It's not the action itself that can create residual negativity, but ones internal interpretation of the act.
"Since everything is but an apparition, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst out in laughter." - Longchenpa
For a highly realized being, everything is skillful means, including sex and violence, as internally... there is no such abiding sex and violence. I'm sure that once the Karmapa feels that playing a game is unnecessary as a skillful means, it will be dropped like autumn leaves from a tree in the fall drop naturally off the branches. Letting go and letting be is very easy for beings of the Karmapas stature.
I have a pretty good direct understanding of the Karmapas inner state of being, through direct experience of his presence. He is not a normal human being, thus his interpretation of any action is not going to be "normal." What is conducive for your process while on Earth is not going to be the same as his. As they say, don't do as the teacher does, but more of what the teacher says, as the teacher is on an entirely different level than the student, the teacher having mastered the teaching and mastered the state of being a student.
I'm not saying that the Karmapa is a complete Buddha, but he is most definitely a high bodhisattva with higher powers of perception and interpretation on an intuitive level than the regular run of the mill human being.
The famous saying, "Actions speak louder than words" is not as true for a Tantric Master for reasons that have to be understood through direct cognition of emptiness and dependent origination. Crazy Wisdom masters do not exist in traditions other than Tantric, in most cases at least.
Over-all, this analysis suggests that there is a correlation between video game play and aggression, but that relationship is smaller than that found for television.
Children and adolescents playing games in long stretches may transfer less aggression from the game playing situation to the external world than those playing for brief periods. Parents’ intuitive reaction to limit playing time may actually be counter productive, pulling the child from the game at a time when the largest aggressive effects are likely. The shrinking effect size may reflect boredom with the game, catharsis, or desensitisation to the violence in the game. Studies that manipulate playing time while controlling desensitisation, arousal, and attention need to be conducted in order to sort out answers to these questions.
@ShiftPlusOne - interesting, although as the article says, it raises more questions. I certainly wouldn't be taking away the message that it's better for kids to be playing for longer, rather than shorter, periods of time. I'm not so surprised about the negative effects of TV tho. I never thought TV - especially violent TV - was good
Thanks for the post.
@Vajraheart - sorry, not interested in a Thera/Vajra debate.
I think Vajra was not saying that Vajrayana is superior to Theravada. She is pointing out that the standards of the Theravada are being used to criticize a vajrayana practioner.
That is equivalent to criticizing the Pope because he believes in God. You can do it but there is no basis for the pope to have a discussion with you other than a christianity versus buddhism motif.
Analogous to that you may not criticize the Karmapa by Therevadan standards without INVITING a Thera/Vajra debate. Action reaction.
I think Vajra was not saying that Vajrayana is superior to Theravada. She is pointing out that the standards of the Theravada are being used to criticize a vajrayana practioner.
That is equivalent to criticizing the Pope because he believes in God. You can do it but there is no basis for the pope to have a discussion with you other than a christianity versus buddhism motif.
Analogous to that you may not criticize the Karmapa by Therevadan standards without INVITING a Thera/Vajra debate. Action reaction.
Exactly, that's all I'm saying. Thanks for the clear interpretation.
We've gotta team up online sometimes! That'll be fun!!
I'd like that. I'm playing Titan Quest now and it is available for 5 dollars (about) with the expansion immortal throne included. Video of it above in this thread. A diablo clone. There isn't a big multiplayer community because it is old and they never had closed servers. But we could co-op.
I also play sacred 2 which has closed servers but more expensive and the community is kind of dying.
@Dozen, the majority of the meta-analysis results just say that the results are too inconsistent and the methods are too limited to make any real conclusion. There are just too many factors to take into account: age, parenting/upbringing, length of exposure, level of realism, pre-existing violent tendencies, type of violence and so on. Then if a link is found you have to look at the reason for that link. Is it there simply because of the violence observed or is there another contributing, for example adrenalin released? Are the effects short term or long term? It's just not something which has been studied properly.
I suppose if there was any clear-cut conclusion then this topic wouldn't be resurfacing over and over again. It comes down to personal experience and no amount of debating/arguing/convincing can override personal experience. That's why I don't think that anyone participating in this topic would be swayed by any argument presented.
I'd like that. I'm playing Titan Quest now and it is available for 5 dollars (about) with the expansion immortal throne included. Video of it above in this thread. A diablo clone. There isn't a big multiplayer community because it is old and they never had closed servers. But we could co-op.
I also play sacred 2 which has closed servers but more expensive and the community is kind of dying.
I can't play games right now as I have to get my computer back from the pawn shop. I've got a Core2 quad, with 8 gigs of ram and a g-force gt 250 with 1gb allocated for graphics. It plays all games at the highest setting and I go in and tweek the settings to upgrade different things. I don't know why anyone uses a console unless you want to play multiplayer. But, nothing beats computers for gaming as far as quality goes. This macbook I'm using is kind of old and slow, only 1gb ram. Anyway... I'll let you know when I get my computer back! We'll play.
Awesome! I play with a macbook pro with a windows partition and an extra monitor for the gaming (seems really big).. My brother works for apple, but I never use the apple side so if I ever get another puter I'll just get a PC.
The best thing about PC is mods. Titanquest has some mods that are a very big enhancement the one I play is the quality of an expansion with no new areas but redesign of skills based on a gamers 4 years of playtesting. So it is very polished.
Awesome! I play with a macbook pro with a windows partition and an extra monitor for the gaming (seems really big).. My brother works for apple, but I never use the apple side so if I ever get another puter I'll just get a PC.
The best thing about PC is mods. Titanquest has some mods that are a very big enhancement the one I play is the quality of an expansion with no new areas but redesign of skills based on a gamers 4 years of playtesting. So it is very polished.
Awesome!! Yes, I've got an LED 1080p screen for my PC as well, which is really amazing and clear!!
This is awesome to have a brother who works for Apple, I guess you get deals... no?
I think he just plays them for fun and tension release. Just a hobby activity.
Could you elaborate on this one? Why is this needed or done?
Haven't you ever done anything you consider fun? I'm not talking about meditation, because anyone who considers meditation as their fun hobby has gone off another spectrum that isn't the majority lol. I mean entertainment in general. People find different stuff entertaining. Some like movies, some like sports, some like reading books etc, all these are entertainment to stimulate the mind that we all can use once in a while.
That's why video games are made, to provide something stimulating to do in your free time that you're involved with, that is fantasy. They're interactive movies, they're meant to challenge, enthrall, and entertain you.
So people play for the same reason people watch movies, it really isn't complicated at all. But you won't be able to identify with it unless you actually take some time to play the newer games. The newer, current games are night and day compared to the old ones when it comes to quality entertainment. The gaming industry does keep improving every year.
Let's look at something related but with a little more nuance: children and sports.
Many parents want their kids to play sports because it will, supposedly, help them develop skills and character. Although parents may not phrase it this way, sports can be a wholesome activity.
I emphasize can be because sports can also be un-wholesome. There is the desire to win at the opponents' expense, there is fear of losing, their is ill will towards opponents and players that are envied, their is pride, shame and other self-ing elements. There is even a temptation to cheat or be unethical.
But in the face of all this "temptation", so to speak, kids also have a tremendous opportunity to learn to strive with little attachment, to cultivate equanimity, to be magnanimous in victory and accepting of defeat, to have compassion for both their teammates and their opponents, to be grateful to their teammates and coaches, to be selfless and to be honest.
Thus, opportunity ("temptation") to be un-skillful creates opportunity to be skillful in a bigger way than if such temptation were not there.
Should parents always strive to shield kids from such temptations? Or should they put them into such situations so they can learn? And if children should do this, why not adults, too?
Whether the degree of explicit violence in many video games is enough to overcome any up sides is a serious question.
My take on it is that video game violence is probably not "worse" than the aggressiveness of other sports. Many sports have war-like themes to begin with (American football is an extreme), hence terms like offense, defense and territory, being used.
Although video games may involve depictions of violence, from an emotional standpoint I wonder if there is more "violence" being done when there is taunting, jostling, intimidation or rough play in face-to-face sports.
Hi Buddhajunkie,
So monks aren't supposed to have hobbies of any kind? Even something like reading non-fiction books?
I suppose it depends on whether the hobbies lead to an increase in wholesome states and a decrease in unwholesome states or if they lead to a decrease in wholesome states and an increase in unwholesome states.
Metta,
Guy
In relation to simple monks, I think you may have a point since monks are supposed to live a simple life with little temptation, and to have intensive training.
But for lay people, I think many activities that don't seem to be part of the path (such as games) can be ways to train themselves to act more skillfully in more "serious" situations that a layperson might find themselves in.
See my argument at the top of this post (kids and sports).
You know, a lot of the posts reflect the attitude that lamas and tulkus and Zen Masters and monks in general are different. Their minds operate on some advanced, lofty plane where ordinary activities don't interest them and emotions have been eliminated. "An advanced monk having fun playing a harmless make-believe video game? Isn't he supposed to be spending all his time showing us how profoundly enlightened he is?"
I've kicked around the world and met quite a few advanced monks with various positions of authority, and every one I've met was just a regular person. We tend to put them on pedestals and then spend our lives wishing we could be pure enough to be enlightened like those special monks, ignoring all the time that they're trying to tell us that's the wrong way of looking at it.
I was around before video games. Shoot, I was around before color television. Funny how people are no more or less violent now than back then. So what did we do back then? We played cowboy and indians and war and watched movies where people got shot and beat each other up and imagined we were there shooting the bad guys or robbing banks and getting away with it. In other words, we had fun playing make believe. And if someone fell down and really got hurt, we immediately stopped and made sure our buddy was all right, because we knew the difference between play acting and reality is that reality hurts.
'Video war games satiate my feelings of aggression'
Is that why you play war games on your play station because many might say it's inappropriate for a Buddhist monk dedicated to peace to play war games?
Well, I view video games as something of an emotional therapy, But shouldn't meditation take care of that?
No, video games are just a skilful method.
Theres something rather odd about this.
I think HH Karmapa is simply trying to justify the needs of his inner 20-something for entertainment and passtimes. Monks are people, too.
I've played violent videos games since I was 5. I've watched bloody, violent movies since I was very young. I've been around swearing, smoking, and drinking my entire life.
Due to my own desire to be better than what I see, I eventually became a Buddhist. I have no desire to smoke, or drink. I rarely play video games any more. I do not want to be like the people I've seen on TV.
I see nothing wrong with the content of these things, unless a child is very stupid and/or susceptible to "peer pressure" or enjoys acting out things they see.
I do not believe that WHAT is on TV or in games is the problem, you see. I believe the problem is dependence and addiction to TV and games. Most every kid in America is only worried about what new movie or game is coming out next month or even next year instead of what revolutions and horrible killings are going on now. Games and TV, I feel, are just distractions from what matters and just dumbs kids down. Of course, I could be completely wrong, but thats how I see it.
We have a society that knows how to read and write but chooses not to.
Mindgate, I think world news can make a person feel like they have little control and produce anxiety. Or no control producing depression. Its no surprise that they would rather play games and watch TV. The world is pretty fucked up and at a certain point you just live your life in the matrix. 33% of US wealth is controlled by 1% of the population. The bottom 50% have 2% of the wealth. So is government going to listen to its purse strings or what. I know their is an election but it doesn't make too much difference regarding the corporate (33% in stock) injected into politics.
So be a good person. Do what you can. Burn with the fire of youth, and I hope you are a pioneer for social change. But my point is that the kids your age don't know any better. I spent a lot of time drinking and now that time is done. It wasn't really wasted because I did other things too that were worthwhile and made me happy. Even the drinking helped me cope with my energies until the drinking itself became the problem and I dropped it which was hard, so I don't recommend starting. Personally I started to fit in with friends because I was lonely.
Um... the only negative effect I get from following world news, politics, religion, etc, is knowing that many of my fellow humans are either retarded or batshit crazy.
Um... the only negative effect I get from following world news, politics, religion, etc, is knowing that many of my fellow humans are either retarded or batshit crazy.
Oh, crazy too. We're dealing with a society of mass schizophrenia and Attention deficit disorder, as well as depression on so many medications, its nuts. At the same time, there is more cultured people and talent roaming around it seems? Well, at least I seem to meet these unknown but talented people on my travels?
Well, there are many different forms. I think it's more widespread.
VH: I think there's a lot of unresolved Post-Traumatic Stress and other disorders that may seem like schizophrenia. A lot of stress in general. And it's not exclusive to Western culture by any means.
Well, there are many different forms. I think it's more widespread.
VH: I think there's a lot of unresolved Post-Traumatic Stress and other disorders that may seem like schizophrenia. A lot of stress in general. And it's not exclusive to Western culture by any means.
Yup, life is moving too fast and we're bombarded with way too much useless information all the time giving the masses A.D.D. and P.T.S.D.
Its just a presentation as far as the DSM criteria. So if you present according to the criteria you are a 'schizophrenic'. Which explains the confusion of getting different diagnosis at different times. That may or may not mean you will respond to any particular drug therapy. I think either Crick or Watson found something out about certain DNA bits or whatever that relate to bipolar disorder. So there could also be a genetic basis to schizophrenia. Certainly goes in families much like cancer.
I've played violent videos games since I was 5. I've watched bloody, violent movies since I was very young. I've been around swearing, smoking, and drinking my entire life.
Due to my own desire to be better than what I see, I eventually became a Buddhist. I have no desire to smoke, or drink. I rarely play video games any more. I do not want to be like the people I've seen on TV.
I see nothing wrong with the content of these things, unless a child is very stupid and/or susceptible to "peer pressure" or enjoys acting out things they see.
(Sorry if I went a little off topic.)
\ Pretty impressive, MG! But studies have shown that some people shown violent films will imitate what they see on film. One study was done back in the 1980's, where people were shown a violent movie in a theater, and afterwards, some vandalism had been done to one of the fixtures in the theater. Stuff got trashed. Probably not everyone is as smart, good-natured, and/or independent-thinking as you.
The only person who can answer whether playing video game harms or helps his practice is the Karmapa himself. None of us here are in a position to do so.
Just for clarification, I didn't mean to implicate the Karmapa when I said studies had shown people will imitate what they see. Not everyone does, clearly. Anyway, that was more by way of answering to MG's digression. The hazares of going off-topic.
Comments
Games can also be highly addictive, and hence a serious challenge to non-attachment."
So I take it if you had children you would not let them watch bugs bunny and power rangers. Ok. Interesting interpretation of the dharma. Good luck. Or play paddy cake. Or monopoly.
Secondly and more seriously -- yes i do have kids (3 years & 1 month old), and yes i most certainly am aware of a) the amount of 'screen time' the older one has (this includes TV, computer, phones etc) and, and b) the content of that screen time - for example, I would never let him watch a show that was inappropriately violent. Does this mean he never sees someone having a fight or getting hit on TV? No, of course not. As you allude, cartoons are full of that stuff. But this in a cartoon the 'world' is plastic, flexible, etc, and ultimately no-one is really hurt. Most kids shows actually have no violence whatsoever - because they know it's not good for kids to watch!
Compare this to a video game where the player is required, as part of that game, to repeatedly commit violent acts (shooting, killing people) that are shown in a realistic way. Big, big, difference.
@Jeffrey - me neither. they are probably the most violent of all. i saw a clip for one where you actually had to mow down a bunch of innocent people at an airport with a machine gun (apparently because you were pretending to be a terrorist or something). anyway just watching a short clip of it made me feel terrible. i can't imagine actually playing it and the effect it would have on you. the scary part is, i'm sure many people who play these games are not aware of the effect these experiences can have on us. as for LOTR/HP - my 3yo can't read yet
The games I play glorify 'power' more than violence. You try to make your character powerful by the 'build' which is composed of a series of choices in design elements. For example you can choose between a fireball that splits in two or one that explodes.
Most of the fun for me is seeing how my plan which was quite creative and fun to develope pans out in practice. I also enjoy the graphics and music and 'arcade' aspects.
I don't think I enjoy the violence but it is a showcase for those other elements. I also have enjoyed sims type games (years ago) where you plan a city and that didn't involve violence other than natural disasters.
I don't think there is clear 'rule' on this topic. Like everything, it comes down to personal interpretation and people will always have views on what is and isn't acceptable.
My main point on violence in general, and violent games in particular, is that, as Buddhists, we should at least try to be aware of the effect on our minds of spending hours and hours in a violent environment, even if it is only a simulated one.
I guess I can see people criticizing the karmapa but we don't know all the facts and I think some people are forgetting that the karmapa has studied buddhism since age 3 with the best teachers in his tradition. So he has probably thought about these things himself. And in my opinion people have an expectation for the karmapa that is sort of based on an idealized vision rather than experience based dharma practice. And finally many are failing to realize that there are differences between Tibetan Buddhism and Therevada Buddhism. I react to these threads because I have love and respect for the Karmapa and it is upsetting to hear him I think misunderstood. Its not so much that people disagree with him playing video games but I think that they have this sort of vibe like 'oh those tibetan hooligans'. Its kind of disrespectuful or at least thats how I perceive it.
Part of it has to do with a high lama on a pedestal. And part with the devotional practice of Tibetan Buddhism which I feel a lot of westerners don't understand. The karmapa represents the lineage of awakened beings.
An example from the Tibetan tradition:
The Benefits of Prostrations
Summary: Lama Shenpen gives a very full response to a question about the benefits and spiritual effects of prostrations.
A student writes:
I would like some more indications of the benefits of prostration practice. I have not understood what spiritual effects are likely to unfold particularly, so, any hints in this respect will be gratefully received.
I just note in me so far a dedication and intention to do prostrations to assist me with the ego and an interest to actually learn more their significance, if that makes sense.
Lama Shenpen replies:
Yes it does. I think the full and whole hearted involvement of ones body, speech and mind/heart in the prostration is highly significant.
Somehow doing things physically and verbally helps the mind relax into the movement of the heart in the direction of opening up to our deepest source of inspiration. This source of inspiration and adhistana is both in us and in the Universe, which is reaching out to us in the form of the lineage of Awakened Beings.
So physically and verbally opening allows the heart to open naturally. Mentally we need to be focused on the meaning of what we are prostrating or opening our hearts to in this way. If a visual image is the most effective way of focusing in this way then visualise the Buddhas, the teachers of the lineage, the Dharma and the Sangha in whatever way inspires you. Otherwise simply remember what is inspiring about them - and even better verbalise those qualities and why you are prostrating to them.
One way to verbalise it is to say 'I take Refuge in the Buddha, the Awakened Ones who reveal the eternal fearless path,' I take Refuge in the Dharma, the goal of Nirvana and the path that leads to it. I take Refuge in the Sangha, those who have verified this Dharma for themselves and all their followers who show the way.' You can make up words like that or use different forms of the Refuge prayer such as the ones you used in the actual Refuge ceremony.
Remember the instruction that as you touch you hands to your head, throat and heart and bow putting your head on the floor you think in this way you confess and lay down all your negative tendencies in regard to your bodily actions, speech and thoughts, praying that all this karma fall away and that as you rise all the wonderful qualities of the Buddha’s body, speech and mind are awakened in you. As you do this try to do it with as much conviction as you can muster that this is actually happening. Somehow all times and places interpenetrate and you are instantly there at the end of the path, even as you set out at the beginning.
Think of your father on your right and your mother on your left and that they are prostrating with you - with all beings all around you, the beings of the six realms; you are doing it for all of them.
This makes an auspicious connection for them all. Really let your awareness open out into space and into the deepest insight into emptiness that you can muster, feeling happy and glad because of the connection and the adhistana* of the practice.
All the elements of Living the Awakened Heart are included in this practice and so all the benefits of all those elements. You are making very powerful pranidhanas* and generating immense punya*, and dedicating it for all beings - which is love and compassion for all beings; devotion and compassion together in one movement.......and renunciation of ego tendencies of course.
Well that is just some of the benefits!
Glossary:
Adhistana: Sustaining power, grace, blessing.
Pranidhana: A prayer that is like a blessing or curse, in the sense that somebody powerful utters their word of truth and this wish has the power of fulfilment.
Punya: Positive energy that by dedication to the benefit and Enlightenment of others is the source and means of the energy to realise Buddhahood
You are projecting your own experience of things onto a being that might have a higher and deeper intuitive interpretation of situations that effect you in an adverse way.
"in the universal womb that is boundless space
all forms of matter and energy occur
as flux of the four elements,
but all are empty forms, absent in reality:
all phenomena, arising in pure mind, are like that.
just as dream is a part of sleep,
unreal in its arising,
so all and everything is pure mind,
never separated from it,
and without substance or attribute.
experience is neither mind nor anything but mind;
it is a vivid display of emptiness, like magical illusion,
in the very moment inconceivable and unutterable.
all experience arising in the mind,
at its inception, know it as emptiness!"
— Longchenpa - Dzogchen Master from the early 1300's
Vajrayana is more radical a view than Theravada. If one is attached to the Theradin view of Buddhism, then one is of course not going to be able to understand the methods of Vajrayana.
Karmapa is a very deeply realized human being, far beyond the capacity of normal civilization. It's not the action itself that can create residual negativity, but ones internal interpretation of the act.
"Since everything is but an apparition, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst out in laughter." - Longchenpa
For a highly realized being, everything is skillful means, including sex and violence, as internally... there is no such abiding sex and violence. I'm sure that once the Karmapa feels that playing a game is unnecessary as a skillful means, it will be dropped like autumn leaves from a tree in the fall drop naturally off the branches. Letting go and letting be is very easy for beings of the Karmapas stature.
I have a pretty good direct understanding of the Karmapas inner state of being, through direct experience of his presence. He is not a normal human being, thus his interpretation of any action is not going to be "normal." What is conducive for your process while on Earth is not going to be the same as his. As they say, don't do as the teacher does, but more of what the teacher says, as the teacher is on an entirely different level than the student, the teacher having mastered the teaching and mastered the state of being a student.
The Effects of Violent Video Games
on Aggression
A Meta-Analysis
JOHN L. SHERRY
Purdue University
Human Communication Research, Vol. 27 No. 3, July 2001 409–431
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-2958.2001.tb00787.x/abstract
Thanks for the post.
@Vajraheart - sorry, not interested in a Thera/Vajra debate.
That is equivalent to criticizing the Pope because he believes in God. You can do it but there is no basis for the pope to have a discussion with you other than a christianity versus buddhism motif.
Analogous to that you may not criticize the Karmapa by Therevadan standards without INVITING a Thera/Vajra debate. Action reaction.
We've gotta team up online sometimes! That'll be fun!!
I also play sacred 2 which has closed servers but more expensive and the community is kind of dying.
I suppose if there was any clear-cut conclusion then this topic wouldn't be resurfacing over and over again. It comes down to personal experience and no amount of debating/arguing/convincing can override personal experience. That's why I don't think that anyone participating in this topic would be swayed by any argument presented.
The best thing about PC is mods. Titanquest has some mods that are a very big enhancement the one I play is the quality of an expansion with no new areas but redesign of skills based on a gamers 4 years of playtesting. So it is very polished.
This is awesome to have a brother who works for Apple, I guess you get deals... no?
That's why video games are made, to provide something stimulating to do in your free time that you're involved with, that is fantasy. They're interactive movies, they're meant to challenge, enthrall, and entertain you.
So people play for the same reason people watch movies, it really isn't complicated at all. But you won't be able to identify with it unless you actually take some time to play the newer games. The newer, current games are night and day compared to the old ones when it comes to quality entertainment. The gaming industry does keep improving every year.
Many parents want their kids to play sports because it will, supposedly, help them develop skills and character. Although parents may not phrase it this way, sports can be a wholesome activity.
I emphasize can be because sports can also be un-wholesome. There is the desire to win at the opponents' expense, there is fear of losing, their is ill will towards opponents and players that are envied, their is pride, shame and other self-ing elements. There is even a temptation to cheat or be unethical.
But in the face of all this "temptation", so to speak, kids also have a tremendous opportunity to learn to strive with little attachment, to cultivate equanimity, to be magnanimous in victory and accepting of defeat, to have compassion for both their teammates and their opponents, to be grateful to their teammates and coaches, to be selfless and to be honest.
Thus, opportunity ("temptation") to be un-skillful creates opportunity to be skillful in a bigger way than if such temptation were not there.
Should parents always strive to shield kids from such temptations? Or should they put them into such situations so they can learn? And if children should do this, why not adults, too?
Whether the degree of explicit violence in many video games is enough to overcome any up sides is a serious question.
My take on it is that video game violence is probably not "worse" than the aggressiveness of other sports. Many sports have war-like themes to begin with (American football is an extreme), hence terms like offense, defense and territory, being used.
Although video games may involve depictions of violence, from an emotional standpoint I wonder if there is more "violence" being done when there is taunting, jostling, intimidation or rough play in face-to-face sports.
In relation to simple monks, I think you may have a point since monks are supposed to live a simple life with little temptation, and to have intensive training.
But for lay people, I think many activities that don't seem to be part of the path (such as games) can be ways to train themselves to act more skillfully in more "serious" situations that a layperson might find themselves in.
See my argument at the top of this post (kids and sports).
I've kicked around the world and met quite a few advanced monks with various positions of authority, and every one I've met was just a regular person. We tend to put them on pedestals and then spend our lives wishing we could be pure enough to be enlightened like those special monks, ignoring all the time that they're trying to tell us that's the wrong way of looking at it.
I was around before video games. Shoot, I was around before color television. Funny how people are no more or less violent now than back then. So what did we do back then? We played cowboy and indians and war and watched movies where people got shot and beat each other up and imagined we were there shooting the bad guys or robbing banks and getting away with it. In other words, we had fun playing make believe. And if someone fell down and really got hurt, we immediately stopped and made sure our buddy was all right, because we knew the difference between play acting and reality is that reality hurts.
I've played violent videos games since I was 5. I've watched bloody, violent movies since I was very young. I've been around swearing, smoking, and drinking my entire life.
Due to my own desire to be better than what I see, I eventually became a Buddhist. I have no desire to smoke, or drink. I rarely play video games any more. I do not want to be like the people I've seen on TV.
I see nothing wrong with the content of these things, unless a child is very stupid and/or susceptible to "peer pressure" or enjoys acting out things they see.
I do not believe that WHAT is on TV or in games is the problem, you see. I believe the problem is dependence and addiction to TV and games. Most every kid in America is only worried about what new movie or game is coming out next month or even next year instead of what revolutions and horrible killings are going on now. Games and TV, I feel, are just distractions from what matters and just dumbs kids down. Of course, I could be completely wrong, but thats how I see it.
We have a society that knows how to read and write but chooses not to.
(Sorry if I went a little off topic.)
So be a good person. Do what you can. Burn with the fire of youth, and I hope you are a pioneer for social change. But my point is that the kids your age don't know any better. I spent a lot of time drinking and now that time is done. It wasn't really wasted because I did other things too that were worthwhile and made me happy. Even the drinking helped me cope with my energies until the drinking itself became the problem and I dropped it which was hard, so I don't recommend starting. Personally I started to fit in with friends because I was lonely.
Um... the only negative effect I get from following world news, politics, religion, etc, is knowing that many of my fellow humans are either retarded or batshit crazy.
Pretty impressive, MG! But studies have shown that some people shown violent films will imitate what they see on film. One study was done back in the 1980's, where people were shown a violent movie in a theater, and afterwards, some vandalism had been done to one of the fixtures in the theater. Stuff got trashed. Probably not everyone is as smart, good-natured, and/or independent-thinking as you.