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I understand your problem here as my sister is a Fundamental Christian and is VERY fanatic about her faith. She is not aware of me being a Buddhist yet, and it will cause some friction. After reading the whole thread, I think the idea of showing co-compassion and how some things in both faiths are the same. The bit of Ajahn Munindo dealing in a very respectfull manner with being preached at is very inspiring..I hope I can act as well as he did.
All seriousness aside, don't make Jesus don't make Buddha and then there is no problem. Your friend is free to maintain her beliefs. Go zen on her, anytime she tells you something about god a simple "Is that so" may suffice. If she doesn't respect you, bottom line she is not your friend. With metta, Todd
There is no way to talk with anyone who is a Christian. You can waste you time like I do and get a lot of information on Christianity and Buddhism and compare the two with your friend. You can do a lot of things, but you will not change your friend's views. I went through this myself and became very frustrated and wrote about it on here. I told my so-called friend what I thought. It did no good. My frustration grew, and now instead I am reading a book by the Dalai Lama called, "Healing Anger." It is a much better way to go. It seems that these people come into your life to help you to practice patience and not anger. If you don't have these people in your life you cannot learn these things or if you did you wouldn't know you had learned them because everyone would be agreeable to you. Hey, I have an arsenal of books comparing Buddhist teachings to Christ's, and a book by the Jesus Seminar that says that much of what Christ is claimed to have said isn't true, and I had one on Pagan Christs that said that there were a lot of Christs in history that were said to be saviors of mankind and were killed on a cross. None of this really works. I even did research into the words, "I am the way, the truth, and the light." None of this helped me, and it won't help you.
If this person that I am dealing with comes home from vacation and wants back in my life and wants to preach to me, I will do my best to not become frustrated but to just tell her that I do not wish to talk about religion, and that I am happy that she finds hers to be rewarding, and I will not allow her to engage in conversation with me in regards to it. Believe me, you can't change their views. I have been on forums where Christians and atheists presented their "truths," and no one ever changed. I was on them for years because I found the debating fascinating, but now I see it as destructive because no one changes their views, they just argue. And those who are Christians have a right to their own happiness and faith.
My own teacher said that I have two choices with people who cause me to have afflicted emotions: 1. either let it go or 2. walk away from them until you can handle it, and if not just stay away. (That is how I interpret his saying. It is hard to do either because there is a part of me that desires to debate, to win, and there is a part of me that just gets angry and wants to tell the person off.
Just know that none of us are perfect. I can't handle things like my teacher does, but I sure can try. I will see it as a way to practice patience with people so that I can one day become a Bodhisattva. It won't be easy.
Good luck, but don't kick yourself if you fail at handling it in the right manner, and I saw this because I am always kicking myself. And once you have learned it maybe you won't be bothered by this anymore. I don't know. Good luck.
In metta, Thao
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zombiegirlbeating the drum of the lifelessin a dry wastelandVeteran
edited March 2011
All seriousness aside, don't make Jesus don't make Buddha and then there is no problem. Your friend is free to maintain her beliefs. Go zen on her, anytime she tells you something about god a simple "Is that so" may suffice. If she doesn't respect you, bottom line she is not your friend. With metta, Todd
some might say that in the mind of a fanatical christian, by trying to save her friend, the christian is showing respect. i think the problem is the fundamental difference in the way in which buddhists and christians view the world.
i like to think that all christians proselytize as an act of love, but i know this isn't true. there are just as many that do so out of hate. perhaps we need to know which we are dealing with before we can suggest action. ajahn munindo happened upon the christian full of love.
to the OP- what do you think your friend's motives really are? is it an act of love or an act of fear and hatred for any belief that is different?
In the news, some Christian group heard that some Muslims were going to show up in front of the White House to demonstrate for something or another. They found one lone Muslim praying on the sidewalk for peace, as he did every week. The Christians surrounded the lone praying man, screamed at him, threatened him and chanted Bible verses at him while throwing crosses at him. All the while, the man kept praying. There is a video of it, if you want to ruin your night watching these people.
Do you really think this sort of "religious" person is going to pay attention to anything you have to say, as a Buddhist? Fear reinforces hate, and people are the same everywhere and throughout time. There are dangerous people out there preaching hate in the name of Christ, so be careful. The fact is, being a Buddhist sometimes means you'll lose friends and even your family might not accept it. We've had young people post here who wanted to know how to deal with parents who threw a fit when they found out.
And I wonder, what would you have done, if you were walking down the sidewalk and saw this happening? As a Buddhist, would you have gotten into a shouting match with an already out of control crowd? Would you have gotten on your knees next to the Muslim and joined him in prayer? Would you have shook your head and walked on?
There are also lots of people preaching hate in the name of every other banner they can cling to. Its not particularly helpful to notice Christians more than Americans more than Muslims, more than Teenagers more than XYZ etc etc etc... in any social group you will find those who cling, those who hate and that most have patterns to work through. For instance, I have seen plenty, on this board, who cultivate hate for others through their disregard and judgement. It happens.. and is only a hair away from happening in posts in this very thread!
I have yet to meet a live being without a heart! To consider them unworthy of speaking to, or impossible, or anything other than perhaps a difficult cousin is less than we can. Not that we must, but we could.
Jesus and buddha were both enlightened. They surrendered ego and became avatar for the christ conscience. Christians tend to think christ was jesus last name. But it is the hyper conscience that is all. We are god experiencing god as god. The path that jesus spoke is simplpy a way for us to remeber our true selves "god" and return to "god" as in nirvana. Jesus, buddha, exc. they are all the same. Humans who woke up and spoke from the sacred heart
Jesus and buddha were both enlightened. They surrendered ego and became avatar for the christ conscience. Christians tend to think christ was jesus last name. But it is the hyper conscience that is all. We are god experiencing god as god. The path that jesus spoke is simplpy a way for us to remeber our true selves "god" and return to "god" as in nirvana. Jesus, buddha, exc. they are all the same. Humans who woke up and spoke from the sacred heart
Please do not tell a Christian friend that Buddha and Christ are the same. You will only get them very, very angry very fast. Also, it is wrong from both a Christian and Buddhist perspective, and will give the Christian the wrong idea about what Buddhism is.
To a Christian, Christ is the divine son of God, unique in the history of the universe. To a Buddhist, the Bible certainly does not teach the Dharma of Buddha, and whether or not Jesus was enlightened is irrelevant. The question should only be, does the religion teach a path to enlightenment? No. It teaches salvation through Christ. That's what it's supposed to do.
So even I want to argue with your statement, and I have no vested interest in defending Christianity at all. So what would you say to a friend who starts lecturing you about the evils of Buddhism and how Christ is the only true religion, that will make a difference?
Jesus and buddha were both enlightened. They surrendered ego and became avatar for the christ conscience. Christians tend to think christ was jesus last name. But it is the hyper conscience that is all. We are god experiencing god as god. The path that jesus spoke is simplpy a way for us to remeber our true selves "god" and return to "god" as in nirvana. Jesus, buddha, exc. they are all the same. Humans who woke up and spoke from the sacred heart
Not to criticise you at all for your perspective, but I wanted to point out that "avatar" and "Christ conscience" are not Buddhist terms. Neither is the concept of "returning to god".
I don't want to diss Hindus at all, but this post is an example of many we get on NewBuddhist that owe more to Hinduism and New Age religion than Buddhism. Which I feel could confuse some people. This is supposed to be a Buddhist site, isn't it?
I believe her friend means well and is not like one of the fanatics that surrounded the Muslim. (Interesting video by the way.)
Ada, The issue of Christ teaching Buddhism is another topic I know, and it does confuse the issue here, and I would even agree that they teach the same and you can find comparative teachings by scholars. This is not a New Age thinking or a Hindu alone.
Roger, it is sad. it saddens me when buddhists get upset when you tell them that the teachings are the same, only the interpretations are different, with the way teachings have been added to the bible. but then i understand that many buddhists have been burned by christianity and want no comparison, and then you have christians who hate it if you tell them that the teachings are the same or that we don't believe in god, etc.
Ada, The issue of Christ teaching Buddhism is another topic I know, and it does confuse the issue here, and I would even agree that they teach the same and you can find comparative teachings by scholars. This is not a New Age thinking or a Hindu alone.
Christians believe that Christ taught us to love one another, which is something Buddhists would see as a good thing. It is a point of contact between the two religions. It is something to talk about with your Christian friend that is better than being battered over the head with a Bible.
However, Christ (according to the Bible) also taught that the unrepentant went to eternal hell, that the only way to avoid hell was faith in him, and that the main problem was sin for which there was no forgiveness except through himself.
I remember my former pastor saying "Jesus spoke more about hell than anyone else in the Bible".
I don't discuss hell, sin, the nature of god, the divinity of Christ or many other topics with my Christian friends. I prefer to divert the conversation towards practical matters on which we can all agree. It's just about living in the world with people, without finding needless conflict.
Sometimes the Christians won't accept no for an answer, of course, but in that case I use Genkakus tactic of repeatedly saying "I am so glad you have found something that works for you".
@Roger. Buddhists are atheists, in that we don't (most of us) believe in a supreme deity. If the cap fits...
Ehh..., Ada..., I'm looking for some wiggle room. Words are terrible burdens sometimes.
Like I personally think ONLY energy companies should be publicly owned which __reduces__ me a dirty stinkin' Socialist in many people's eyes.
Same thing with Atheism. I don't want to be associated with the nihilism of atheism even though I think the question of "god" is totally misleading.
Atheism seems to imply/declare people who contemplate "god" are fools (see below)
Maybe use "agnostic" instead; it's a kinder gentler way to deal with "believers."
Just talking. I don't know the answer. Heck, maybe there are better words in non-english, non-western languages.
agnostic |agˈnästik| noun a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.
atheism |ˈāθēˌizəm| noun the theory or belief that God does not exist.
@Roger, hey I'm not trying to get you into trouble! I'm just mentioning that, as a matter of fact, Buddhism is an atheistic religion.
I'm not saying you necessarily need to be "out" about this to your Christian friends.
But I do hope you don't have such a ridiculous opinion of atheism - haven't you heard of Secular Humanism? That's not nihilistic. Nihilism is something else again. Plenty of people are atheists without being bad people.
Also, a socialist isn't a bad person either, but I suspect some of your friends are conflating it with Communism, which is generally considered to be "a bad thing". I should probably not go there or I'll get wound up (politics graduate, you see - I can't bear political illiteracy).
Say "You may just be right, thank you. I may look further into it." Being right or wrong is not important. What is important is how much peace one can spread
The bible is the same as buddhism. Christians have highly misinterpreted it. God is all. god is you, god is the universe. Jesus is enlightened one. Heavan is peace, hell is suffering. Once one learns to live from the heart there will no longer be opinion or belief.
"... And I wonder, what would you have done, if you were walking down the sidewalk and saw this happening? As a Buddhist, would you have gotten into a shouting match with an already out of control crowd? Would you have gotten on your knees next to the Muslim and joined him in prayer? Would you have shook your head and walked on?..."
I would really want to think that I would stop, survey the situation, touch the Muslims back gently, get down into a lotus position next to him, meditate and let the crosses fly. Do I KNOW that I would do that? No. Maybe I'd be scared, or intimidated, I can't say for sure. But in my heart that is what I would think to do, and I believe I would actually do that. The story is disturbing.
I may be wrong, but i suggest you kill the Buddha.
You cannot argue with someone based on reason, if thats the thing that they are avoiding by default (e.g. the written by God - says in Bible circular reasoning). Even if they usually function by logic, this is a moment they don't. And maybe you don't either (watch carefully).
You cannot take their belief system away without giving them a new foundation to stand on (they'd go insane).
Preaching Buddhism never works, unless invited (thus, they can only figure out for themselves, and you can help when asked for it by another person - might not be the one you are describing, but every day there are plenty of opportunities to help someone if that is what you wish to do).
You cannot change another person, but there is a tiny bit of hope that you might be able change yourself.
Your frustration is not the other persons problem. They are not the cause of it, and they do not have the means to end it.
*now, disagree but also see how everything we write and say is misunderstood*
There is an art to managing this situation I mastered this a while back as a few friends have thought that if they lectured me that would sway me in a drastic manner - towards their religion. Im not mentioning any religion for its a simple solution. I've had this situation with 2 friends in the past and I have had to lose friends because i never managed topic well.
All you have to say is when someone continues to debate their religion or how they think your wrong and they are right is to say 'maybe your right', I don't allow for anyone to over step the mark anymore as I dont feel that i have the right to tell anyone that what they believe is wrong and no one should do that to me!
@Ada_B, I've just been reading this thread and I'd like to point out that it very strongly seems that Buddhism is an agnostic religion, not an atheistic one. The Buddha always pointed to what's here and now, but he remained silent or changed the subject on issues of creator God/god(s) because it was something we can't know (or have no way to investigate), not something we know for sure is untrue. That's agnosticism, neither belief nor disbelief, the Middle Path of "don't know-ing".
You're not an atheist for not believing in a God/god(s); you're an atheist for saying "there is no God" (active disbelief), and neither the Buddha nor Buddhism say that.
@Cloud, I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember reading a suttra where the Buddha explicitly said there was no Creator, and that to say so was a serious error.
I found the following reference:
Thera, Nyanaponika. "Buddhism and the God-idea". The Vision of the Dhamma. Kandy, Sri Lanka: Buddhist Publication Society. "In Buddhist literature, the belief in a creator god (issara-nimmana-vada) is frequently mentioned and rejected, along with other causes wrongly adduced to explain the origin of the world; as, for instance, world-soul, time, nature, etc. God-belief, however, is placed in the same category as those morally destructive wrong views which deny the kammic results of action, assume a fortuitous origin of man and nature, or teach absolute determinism. These views are said to be altogether pernicious, having definite bad results due to their effect on ethical conduct."
There may be other definitions of the word 'god', but as far as Christians like the OP's relatives/friends are concerned Creator=God. Not believing in the Creator God=atheist.
P.S. An 'atheist' can be a strong atheist: "There is no God, of this I can be absolutely sure" (God = Creator God), or a weak atheist: "There is no evidence to believe in a God, therefore I don't".
An agnostic is someone who believes that knowledge of God is not possible either way. The word comes from "Gnostic", meaning "secret knowledge", an early Christian group who believed that God was essentially unknowable. Agnostics took this view one stage further and said that the very existence of God was unknowable too.
All of these are perfectly respectable intellectual positions, of course. But as I understand it, Buddhism better fits the definition for weak atheism than agnosticism.
Hey guys, _we_ can debate it (B. and atheism), and we'll do that responsibly, I'm sure. But I "hate" giving the public a chance to debate it. Therefore? I personally never equate atheism with Buddhism in public. No biggie.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited March 2011
An atheist is someone who does not believe God exists. An Agnostic is someone who is open to the possibility. A non-theist (like me) believes that the question is unimportant, either way. It's a waste of time and speculation is pointless.
The bible is the same as buddhism. Christians have highly misinterpreted it.
I don't see how, seeing as they wrote it. Misinterpretation is not the question here. Moving the goalposts is.
God is all. god is you, god is the universe. Jesus is enlightened one. Heavan is peace, hell is suffering. Once one learns to live from the heart there will no longer be opinion or belief.
I'm so glad you've found something that works for you. It doesn't work for me though.
A A non-theist (like me) believes that the question is unimportant, either way. It's a waste of time and speculation is pointless.
Once again, nice work federica. By gosh, I (as a beginner) believe THAT is technically correct. Gimme some time to assimilate that "non-theist" terminology. It has potential.
An atheist is someone who does not believe God exists. An Agnostic is someone who is open to the possibility. A non-theist (like me) believes that the question is unimportant, either way. It's a waste of time and speculation is pointless.
The bible is the same as buddhism. Christians have highly misinterpreted it.
I don't see how, seeing as they wrote it. Misinterpretation is not the question here. Moving the goalposts is.
God is all. god is you, god is the universe. Jesus is enlightened one. Heavan is peace, hell is suffering. Once one learns to live from the heart there will no longer be opinion or belief.
I'm so glad you've found something that works for you. It doesn't work for me though.
The goal post is enlightment. nirvana, heavan. its all the same
Okay so a non-theist thinks it's a waste of time (I do too, since right now there's no way to know, no evidence!), and an agnostic is open to the possibility (so am I, if some evidence actually comes up to show one way or another)... well crud, now there's no word I can use as a tidy label for my stance.
I'm completely open to any and all possibilities, while disinterested in speculating about it or forming beliefs without any evidence to go on. (And I don't considered holy texts or scriptures as evidence, people write down what they want to, including stories.)
well crud, now there's no word I can use as a tidy label for my stance.
How about "Agnostic in the larval stage?" No..., might be better to be a "Theist in the larval stage?" Maybe. Pretty sure "Atheist in the larval stage" seems to be the worst choice. So lets not consider THAT one of the possibilities in the first place. I mean assuming of course the caterpillar has absolutely zero idea of the butterfly.
Okay so a non-theist thinks it's a waste of time (I do too, since right now there's no way to know, no evidence!), and an agnostic is open to the possibility (so am I, if some evidence actually comes up to show one way or another)... well crud, now there's no word I can use as a tidy label for my stance.
I'm completely open to any and all possibilities, while disinterested in speculating about it or forming beliefs without any evidence to go on. (And I don't considered holy texts or scriptures as evidence, people write down what they want to, including stories.)
It would seem like you could use the word "disinterested" as a tidy label for your stance....
All religious teachings point to a path towards "saving" oneself.
Pardon me, but aren't we no better here than the so-called "fundamental Christians" by calling them names eg fanatics?
As I have shared b4, from where I come from, you are considered "non-traditional" if you practise Christianity. It's all relative. Let's be open to all possibilities as some have suggested here.
I don't know if you are responding to my post, but when I use the term "fanatic" I use it only for people who fit the definition.
–noun 1. a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics.
"... And I wonder, what would you have done, if you were walking down the sidewalk and saw this happening? As a Buddhist, would you have gotten into a shouting match with an already out of control crowd? Would you have gotten on your knees next to the Muslim and joined him in prayer? Would you have shook your head and walked on?..."
I would really want to think that I would stop, survey the situation, touch the Muslims back gently, get down into a lotus position next to him, meditate and let the crosses fly. Do I KNOW that I would do that? No. Maybe I'd be scared, or intimidated, I can't say for sure. But in my heart that is what I would think to do, and I believe I would actually do that. The story is disturbing.
I'd like to think I'd stop, and start doing bows and chants in support also. But perhaps my fear of the mob would overwhelm my sense of what I should do as a Buddhist who tries to live up to the teachings. I've never been tested like that. Yet. But it's something to think about.
When I was a teenager, my best friend led me to convert to Catholicism. After college we lost track of each other for about 40 years, and then recently...now that we are both 60...we found each other again through Facebook. He started right in (though online), saying that he had discovered that Catholicism was the wrong road to God and that I should now convert to his Born Again Christian church...even more so now that I was Buddhist (although in reality, I am some mix of Buddhist and Christian principles). I stopped him flat. I told him that to begin with, he had steered me totally wrong the first time around (according to him), so why should I listen to him a second time. I further told him that I would not discuss religion with him, and that if he insisted on doing so, his action would end our friendship, something I was sure God wouldn't approve of. He stopped, and we now occasionally chat briefly online about other aspects of our lives.
Just one question: where exactly in the bible does it say it was written by god?
Palzang
It doesn't, and I don't know of any Christian who believes it in those terms. Unlike in Islam and the Koran (which is supposed to actually have been dictated word for word) the bible is acknowledged by most Christians to be a collection of "books" written over a wide span of years, which collectively constitute the revealed "word of god". So God isn't said to have written them, rather he's supposed to have inspired them.
Now where is *that* assertion written in the bible? Well nowhere really, and even if it was it wouldn't be clear that the statement would be referring to the whole collection (since it was put together later, and even today there are ongoing debates about which books get in and which don't).
Comments
After reading the whole thread, I think the idea of showing co-compassion and how some things in both faiths are the same. The bit of Ajahn Munindo dealing in a very respectfull manner with being preached at is very inspiring..I hope I can act as well as he did.
With metta,
Todd
If this person that I am dealing with comes home from vacation and wants back in my life and wants to preach to me, I will do my best to not become frustrated but to just tell her that I do not wish to talk about religion, and that I am happy that she finds hers to be rewarding, and I will not allow her to engage in conversation with me in regards to it. Believe me, you can't change their views. I have been on forums where Christians and atheists presented their "truths," and no one ever changed. I was on them for years because I found the debating fascinating, but now I see it as destructive because no one changes their views, they just argue. And those who are Christians have a right to their own happiness and faith.
My own teacher said that I have two choices with people who cause me to have afflicted emotions: 1. either let it go or 2. walk away from them until you can handle it, and if not just stay away. (That is how I interpret his saying. It is hard to do either because there is a part of me that desires to debate, to win, and there is a part of me that just gets angry and wants to tell the person off.
Just know that none of us are perfect. I can't handle things like my teacher does, but I sure can try. I will see it as a way to practice patience with people so that I can one day become a Bodhisattva. It won't be easy.
Good luck, but don't kick yourself if you fail at handling it in the right manner, and I saw this because I am always kicking myself. And once you have learned it maybe you won't be bothered by this anymore. I don't know. Good luck.
In metta, Thao
i like to think that all christians proselytize as an act of love, but i know this isn't true. there are just as many that do so out of hate. perhaps we need to know which we are dealing with before we can suggest action. ajahn munindo happened upon the christian full of love.
to the OP- what do you think your friend's motives really are? is it an act of love or an act of fear and hatred for any belief that is different?
Do you really think this sort of "religious" person is going to pay attention to anything you have to say, as a Buddhist? Fear reinforces hate, and people are the same everywhere and throughout time. There are dangerous people out there preaching hate in the name of Christ, so be careful. The fact is, being a Buddhist sometimes means you'll lose friends and even your family might not accept it. We've had young people post here who wanted to know how to deal with parents who threw a fit when they found out.
And I wonder, what would you have done, if you were walking down the sidewalk and saw this happening? As a Buddhist, would you have gotten into a shouting match with an already out of control crowd? Would you have gotten on your knees next to the Muslim and joined him in prayer? Would you have shook your head and walked on?
I have yet to meet a live being without a heart! To consider them unworthy of speaking to, or impossible, or anything other than perhaps a difficult cousin is less than we can. Not that we must, but we could.
With friendship,
Matt
To a Christian, Christ is the divine son of God, unique in the history of the universe. To a Buddhist, the Bible certainly does not teach the Dharma of Buddha, and whether or not Jesus was enlightened is irrelevant. The question should only be, does the religion teach a path to enlightenment? No. It teaches salvation through Christ. That's what it's supposed to do.
So even I want to argue with your statement, and I have no vested interest in defending Christianity at all. So what would you say to a friend who starts lecturing you about the evils of Buddhism and how Christ is the only true religion, that will make a difference?
Palzang
I don't want to diss Hindus at all, but this post is an example of many we get on NewBuddhist that owe more to Hinduism and New Age religion than Buddhism. Which I feel could confuse some people. This is supposed to be a Buddhist site, isn't it?
Ada, The issue of Christ teaching Buddhism is another topic I know, and it does confuse the issue here, and I would even agree that they teach the same and you can find comparative teachings by scholars. This is not a New Age thinking or a Hindu alone.
Sooooo..., alrighty then..., now we know how they've answered the Buddhist issue.
Joking aside: it's very sad, it bothers me a lot when I think about it because J&B are so close.
However, Christ (according to the Bible) also taught that the unrepentant went to eternal hell, that the only way to avoid hell was faith in him, and that the main problem was sin for which there was no forgiveness except through himself.
I remember my former pastor saying "Jesus spoke more about hell than anyone else in the Bible".
I don't discuss hell, sin, the nature of god, the divinity of Christ or many other topics with my Christian friends. I prefer to divert the conversation towards practical matters on which we can all agree. It's just about living in the world with people, without finding needless conflict.
Sometimes the Christians won't accept no for an answer, of course, but in that case I use Genkakus tactic of repeatedly saying "I am so glad you have found something that works for you".
Like I personally think ONLY energy companies should be publicly owned which __reduces__ me a dirty stinkin' Socialist in many people's eyes.
Same thing with Atheism. I don't want to be associated with the nihilism of atheism even though I think the question of "god" is totally misleading.
Atheism seems to imply/declare people who contemplate "god" are fools (see below)
Maybe use "agnostic" instead; it's a kinder gentler way to deal with "believers."
Just talking. I don't know the answer.
agnostic |agˈnästik|
noun
a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.
atheism |ˈāθēˌizəm|
noun
the theory or belief that God does not exist.
I'm not saying you necessarily need to be "out" about this to your Christian friends.
But I do hope you don't have such a ridiculous opinion of atheism - haven't you heard of Secular Humanism? That's not nihilistic. Nihilism is something else again. Plenty of people are atheists without being bad people.
Also, a socialist isn't a bad person either, but I suspect some of your friends are conflating it with Communism, which is generally considered to be "a bad thing". I should probably not go there or I'll get wound up (politics graduate, you see - I can't bear political illiteracy).
I may be wrong, but i suggest you kill the Buddha.
You cannot argue with someone based on reason, if thats the thing that they are avoiding by default (e.g. the written by God - says in Bible circular reasoning).
Even if they usually function by logic, this is a moment they don't. And maybe you don't either (watch carefully).
You cannot take their belief system away without giving them a new foundation to stand on (they'd go insane).
Preaching Buddhism never works, unless invited (thus, they can only figure out for themselves, and you can help when asked for it by another person - might not be the one you are describing, but every day there are plenty of opportunities to help someone if that is what you wish to do).
You cannot change another person, but there is a tiny bit of hope that you might be able change yourself.
Your frustration is not the other persons problem. They are not the cause of it, and they do not have the means to end it.
*now, disagree
All you have to say is when someone continues to debate their religion or how they think your wrong and they are right is to say 'maybe your right', I don't allow for anyone to over step the mark anymore as I dont feel that i have the right to tell anyone that what they believe is wrong and no one should do that to me!
You're not an atheist for not believing in a God/god(s); you're an atheist for saying "there is no God" (active disbelief), and neither the Buddha nor Buddhism say that.
I found the following reference:
Thera, Nyanaponika. "Buddhism and the God-idea". The Vision of the Dhamma. Kandy, Sri Lanka: Buddhist Publication Society. "In Buddhist literature, the belief in a creator god (issara-nimmana-vada) is frequently mentioned and rejected, along with other causes wrongly adduced to explain the origin of the world; as, for instance, world-soul, time, nature, etc. God-belief, however, is placed in the same category as those morally destructive wrong views which deny the kammic results of action, assume a fortuitous origin of man and nature, or teach absolute determinism. These views are said to be altogether pernicious, having definite bad results due to their effect on ethical conduct."
There may be other definitions of the word 'god', but as far as Christians like the OP's relatives/friends are concerned Creator=God. Not believing in the Creator God=atheist.
An agnostic is someone who believes that knowledge of God is not possible either way. The word comes from "Gnostic", meaning "secret knowledge", an early Christian group who believed that God was essentially unknowable. Agnostics took this view one stage further and said that the very existence of God was unknowable too.
All of these are perfectly respectable intellectual positions, of course. But as I understand it, Buddhism better fits the definition for weak atheism than agnosticism.
An Agnostic is someone who is open to the possibility.
A non-theist (like me) believes that the question is unimportant, either way.
It's a waste of time and speculation is pointless.
I don't see how, seeing as they wrote it. Misinterpretation is not the question here. Moving the goalposts is. I'm so glad you've found something that works for you.
It doesn't work for me though.
I'm completely open to any and all possibilities, while disinterested in speculating about it or forming beliefs without any evidence to go on. (And I don't considered holy texts or scriptures as evidence, people write down what they want to, including stories.)
Not all Christians are fanatics.
Metta,
Guy
Now where is *that* assertion written in the bible? Well nowhere really, and even if it was it wouldn't be clear that the statement would be referring to the whole collection (since it was put together later, and even today there are ongoing debates about which books get in and which don't).