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Is Buddhism just ancient psychology?

edited March 2011 in Buddhism Basics
I don't mean "just" in a derogatory sense. I was wondering if perhaps Buddhism is a very acurate but old philosophy of self understanding, or psychology, which might be the reason it is expressed and taught in riddles and seemingly vague explanations.

Is it perhaps an ancient format for teaching philosophy and psychology? I mean, Buddhism clearly points to philosophy of mind, psychological continuity, memory sciences and dimensions; However, they are discussed in a roundabout way that may reflect the neccessities for learning about "self" in a pred-modern era.

Is a modern western scientific diagram explaining how memory works not just a different route to understanding the same thing? Is there a reason that Buddhism today still leans on seemingly cryptic riddles and stories? Or is it just a traditional thing? In which case Buddhism might be a name for a way, or tradition, of teaching the same things that others teach?

Comments

  • The purpose of buddhism is liberation whereas ologies are studies.. Its like painting to get technically good versus being in the moment of painting and mindful..
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    @jefflebowski, The Buddha said he taught only of suffering (dukkha) and the cessation of suffering (Nirvana). It's about how the mind works and the trends of mind and wrong views of reality that lead us to every kind of mental pain. It isn't particularly psychology, or religion, or science... it's a dedicated system to end suffering. In this, it can be called many things, but it's rather unique in the world and hard to define other than a system of liberation (as @Jeffrey said).
  • Yes we don't meditate to become good at meditation for the future. We are mindful of the present. And when thoughts go to the future we return to the present (breath).
  • The purpose of buddhism is liberation whereas ologies are studies.. Its like painting to get technically good versus being in the moment of painting and mindful..
    I understand that... but most "seekers" of enlightenment need to satisfy their taste for understanding before they can realise that all they need to be is "here and now". I get the jist that there really is no path... but that understanding or awakening is in itself a path. Sort of like building a castle only to realise upon completion that the castle needs demolishing. However, the building of the castle was necessary.

    The cryptic teachings of Buddhism, although compelling, seem to prolong the route to awakening, whereas I don't understand why a simple, revised and modern explanation of ego and the self could not cut straight to the point? Sort of like revised copies of the bible.

    I guess.. I mean that the wisdom of Buddhism seems to be very hidden and hard to tap into. Why should this be the case? The concept is pretty simple... even if it is hard to swallow. It's very hard to aproach from the mind of a skeptical western youth.

    Maybe I'm missing the point. Maybe a gradual understanding is vital.... but I also think that people spend far too long getting confused and lost in thoughts because it's not spelled out in plain English.
  • Zen is an approach to Buddhism that seems to be similar to what you are describing, a "cutting through". Maybe you should do some research on that.
  • I love saying it's a psychology. I don't see much "god" emphasis in it; which is GREAT IMO.. B's goal is to eliminate suffering and replace it with happiness, right? THAT'S what psychological counseling is supposed to do. That's what self-help books are aimed at.

    The only thing I disagree with is the ascription that it's "ancient." I don't think people were different back then. Assuming no language barrier, I bet if you could grab one of those people who lived 2500 years ago and bring them into today, they'd need only a week to be fully briefed, almost-fully adjusted _and_ be functional with a Blackberry.

    image
  • Zen is an approach to Buddhism that seems to be similar to what you are describing, a "cutting through". Maybe you should do some research on that.
    Thanks, i will do.
  • I love saying it's a psychology. I don't see much "god" emphasis in it; which is GREAT IMO.. B's goal is to eliminate suffering and replace it with happiness, right? THAT'S what psychological counseling is supposed to do. That's what self-help books are aimed at.

    The only thing I disagree with is the ascription that it's "ancient." I don't think people were different back then. Assuming no language barrier, I bet if you could grab one of those people who lived 2500 years ago and bring them into today, they'd need only a week to be fully briefed, almost-fully adjusted _and_ be functional with a Blackberry.

    image
    Hah, no I agree in that respect. But I mean that the culture and language barrier is the ancient part of it. Mystic riddles might have just been a teaching technique suitable for the times.
  • edited March 2011
    Oh! Yes. The Buddhist ritual and the "mysterious" language fragments and "odd" practices, like chanting and incense used to bother me. Then I realized they are just ways developed in different times and cultures to accomplish the SAME goals: calming the mind, focussing the mind, training the mind and removing filters from the mind in order to see more clearly the mistaken assumptions one is making possibly a hundred times a day.
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    The purpose of buddhism is liberation whereas ologies are studies.. Its like painting to get technically good versus being in the moment of painting and mindful..
    I understand that... but most "seekers" of enlightenment need to satisfy their taste for understanding before they can realise that all they need to be is "here and now". I get the jist that there really is no path... but that understanding or awakening is in itself a path. Sort of like building a castle only to realise upon completion that the castle needs demolishing. However, the building of the castle was necessary.

    The cryptic teachings of Buddhism, although compelling, seem to prolong the route to awakening, whereas I don't understand why a simple, revised and modern explanation of ego and the self could not cut straight to the point? Sort of like revised copies of the bible.

    I guess.. I mean that the wisdom of Buddhism seems to be very hidden and hard to tap into. Why should this be the case? The concept is pretty simple... even if it is hard to swallow. It's very hard to aproach from the mind of a skeptical western youth.

    Maybe I'm missing the point. Maybe a gradual understanding is vital.... but I also think that people spend far too long getting confused and lost in thoughts because it's not spelled out in plain English.
    because the depth of our misconception about the true nature of reality is too great.

    like telling a worm that lived underground for all of his life that not only there is such a thing as and outdoor world, but that he lives on a round planet that goes round and round a sun which provide energy for the world, and that our sun is only one in a billion in our galazy etc...
    First you need to show the worm that there is such a thing as the outdoor world.
    And not only tell him, as if the worm only try to understand mentally the concept of the outside world, he will probably get it wrong (since he has no idea what it is) and all of this stuff will remain empty and pointless theory to him.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    In a sense, yes, which is why I like to call Buddhism a type of 'transcendent psychology' in order to differentiate it from what we in the West normally call psychology. In other words, I see Buddhism as a type of mental science that utilizes a variety of meditative practices in an effort to direct the mind towards the supramundane happiness of nibbana.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited March 2011
    I see what you are saying. The whole buddhist path can be described in one book, true. But to realize the teachings in the book? Well that happens every day. And it is never completed, because the path is an opening rather than creation or destruciton. We open to a truth which is neither existent nor non-existent. That truth is not in another world or a different experience from the one we are having. It is just a vaster vision than the narrow closed off view we presently have.

    If we read that book with our current vision. Maybe it will make a little crack in us. So that we can keep practicing and the living water will start to come out of that crack. We don't have to fabricate the living water but we do have to make a lot of effort and read a lot of teachings to start that little crack.

    And we practice each day. Some days nothing is happening or so it seems.

    Just on the intellectual level of comprehension the book won't even make a crack. We are certain to not comprehend all the levels of the teaching in the book. And we will be stuck in the certainty that we 'know' about buddhism. And that it doesn't work. Or maybe we think we 'got it'. What next?
  • I guess.. I mean that the wisdom of Buddhism seems to be very hidden and hard to tap into. Why should this be the case? The concept is pretty simple... even if it is hard to swallow. It's very hard to aproach from the mind of a skeptical western youth.
    Buddhism encourages the development of wisdom through reality, not Buddhism. Buddhism cannot enlighten, because Buddhism is just a concept. What Buddhism is useful for is removing the non-enlightened elements.



  • because the depth of our misconception about the true nature of reality is too great.

    like telling a worm that lived underground for all of his life that not only there is such a thing as and outdoor world, but that he lives on a round planet that goes round and round a sun which provide energy for the world, and that our sun is only one in a billion in our galazy etc...
    First you need to show the worm that there is such a thing as the outdoor world.
    And not only tell him, as if the worm only try to understand mentally the concept of the outside world, he will probably get it wrong (since he has no idea what it is) and all of this stuff will remain empty and pointless theory to him.
    So are you saying that Buddhism remains cryptic because it is urging people to grasp the truth gradually so as to fully comprehend the implications?
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    Buddhism isn't cryptic, why do you think it is?
  • Some buddhism is cryptic but the crypticness has a purpose. Such as the zen koans.
  • Buddhism isn't cryptic, why do you think it is?
    well.. it's not cryptic if you're aproaching it from the right frame of mind, but for someone who is utterly immersed and attached to the ego, which generally is most of western society, many of the "sayings" and teachings come across as being vague and sort of "teasing".

    For many people they aren't even aware of which type of philosophy this is. This is metaphysics... but to use metaphorical analogies and the like can confuse people. I've reached the concepts of Buddhism through existential philosophy. Introspection.. and understanding of self. Feelings of solipsism. etc. etc.

    By cryptic.. I just mean that it doesn't seem to use terms which would quickly and easily explain the truth to someone, but as another poster seemed to imply... this is intended.
  • If I had to devise a crash course for people who want to understand the true nature of reality I'd give them a candle lit padded room, a few valium, a lot of simple but clear philosophy books and a copy of the film the matrix.

    then I'd tell them that, unlike the Matrix, you can't escape the body until death and the "real world" is probably not anything like the matrix world... with regards to individuals and phsyical forms.

    Ok, i'm messing around... but you get the jist.

    Maybe buddhism is the best way. I do agree that it takes a lot of time to understand the true implications.. depending on your philosophical leanings.
  • patbbpatbb Veteran
    edited March 2011


    because the depth of our misconception about the true nature of reality is too great.

    like telling a worm that lived underground for all of his life that not only there is such a thing as and outdoor world, but that he lives on a round planet that goes round and round a sun which provide energy for the world, and that our sun is only one in a billion in our galazy etc...
    First you need to show the worm that there is such a thing as the outdoor world.
    And not only tell him, as if the worm only try to understand mentally the concept of the outside world, he will probably get it wrong (since he has no idea what it is) and all of this stuff will remain empty and pointless theory to him.
    So are you saying that Buddhism remains cryptic because it is urging people to grasp the truth gradually so as to fully comprehend the implications?
    it isn't cryptic.

    If you go back in time to prehistoric man, and begin to speak of the planet earth being round, of the ability to fly into space etc... You will sound cryptic to them.

    Actually this is an important paradigme shift to have.

    Basically Buddhism is a set of instructions, do these techniques, and that will happen.
    When that has happen, do this technique and a third thing will happen.

    as simple as that.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited March 2011
    @jefflebowski, Yeah it's only hard to understand because the truth can't be adequately expressed in words, or rather it mostly can but it's not satisfying without the transformation through meditation and skillful karma. The teachings are meant to lead your mind to seeing reality in a way that it will all make sense.

    A lot of things can be said simply.

    Four Noble Truths = Craving (and Clinging/Attachment) leads to Suffering, freedom (Nirvana) is found by practicing the Noble Eightfold Path

    (Three Characteristics of Existence)
    Anicca = Impermanence. Everything changes. Comes and goes.
    Anatta = Not-Self. There's no core or self-essence, all things are simply conditioned and interrelated phenomena that arise and fall based on conditions.
    Dukkha = Not understanding these truths (and the Four Noble Truths) leads the mind to think in ways that bring suffering, unsatisfactoriness, pain and the like.

    Are these cryptic? No. But just understanding them isn't enough. The mind has to think this way in all things, seeing this reality not just conceptualizing/thinking it.
  • Jeff, what have you been reading exactly? Maybe we can refer you to something less cryptic.
  • Buddhism is common sense and as you know common sense isn't so common. =\
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    @taiyaki, I was just saying that to my brother the other day. Common sense is the rarest kind. :)
  • edited March 2011
    In my amateur opinion, the only thing that's cryptic about B. is the experience of Enlightenment. Why is it puzzling? Probably because it's totally impossible to communicate or explain.

    Everything else, from eightfold path to reincarnation, comes with quite acceptable degrees of clarity assuming you study, do your homework and have a teacher.
  • Yeah. Try to explain the silence. It's not something to explain using concepts but something to be experienced.
  • its a set of hints. like hints on riding a bike. but you have to have already a sense of balance to ride a bike. if you fall on the bike and then say 'but I did what it said in the bike manual' then you are lost. The same thing can happen in buddhist practice.
  • Buddhism is just a word and so is psychology.

    Define them as you may
  • either way, it is more effective than psychology.
  • either way, it is more effective than psychology.
    I find it to be an excellent chick magnet too! image

    (NAH!!!!!! JUST KIDDING!!! JOKINGLY SEXIST - TRYING TO BE FUNNY!!!!)

  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited March 2011


    (NAH!!!!!! JUST KIDDING!!! JOKINGLY SEXIST - TRYING TO BE FUNNY!!!!)

    Pushing the envelope, Roger! :angry: No, (just kidding), but it's true, sanghas and classes on Buddhism are a great place to meet women. In my observation, usually about 70% of the participants are women.

    Is Buddhism ancient psychology? In a word, yes.
  • Weight watchers is where you go to meet women. :vimp:

    (egging dakini on?)
  • IMO - At its most simple, the Dharma Teachings are a proven set of techniques for training the mind. These Teachings have remained intact over thousands of years because they are effective.

    My belief is that there are unbroken lineages of Enlightened Beings that reach back to the Historical Buddha. This has insured the purity of the Teachings. As these Teachings are set in place to allow for an understanding of the True nature of Reality, I think that encompass many areas of study.
  • Psychology - categorizes, analyzes, prescribes and treats - under regulated license - to affirm behavior consistent with conventionally agreed upon norms. Buddhism can be said to affirm eroding attachment to all of the above. The use of mental processes to achieve mental balance seems to be a common point between the two until anatta presents. Emptiness devoid of nihilism strains interpretation in psychological terms. Further, using the mind to train the mind to dissolve the mind is, well.. pathological...it would seem. No such quandary in Buddhism...
  • Yes IMO Buddhism is a series of psychology teachings.
    The west prospered in external technological sciences, the east in internal science.

    The Western attempts at "internal science" have never compared.
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