Sorry

cranreuch

Hey all,

Just wanted to apologize about the way I've been stirring up some things. I'm a fan of Wittgenstein and so in his terms, it looks like I got the rules of the language game wrong.

I wasn't trying to derail threads or insult anyone. But looks like I achieved both. I apologize.

all the best.
c

Cloud

Skillful karma.

DhammaDhatu

Whoever Wittgenstein is (never heard of him or her, myself), sounds like your mind is attached to them

fivebells

Apology accepted, but I seriously doubt that it has anything to do with "rules of the language game."

DhammaDhatu

Apology accepted however you could not be more derailing or insulting than me. i am the worst here



let it go and be yourself

Mountains

Apology accepted however you could not be more derailing or insulting than me. i am the worst here

Huh.. I'm way more worse than you are! Nyah!

formermonkJohn

cranreuch for what its worth i thought your OP in the closed thread was spot on, i didn't think it was out of line, i think criticism is healthy, if your ideas can't stand up to a little critique, then there not worth it. the moderators have this idea of a big happy new buddhist family, and that approach has its merits as well,

IMO reading about enlightenment then going around dropping terms and concepts that only an enlightened person could grasp or understand, when your not even close to enlightenment and don't even know what the terms you are using really mean; i find that particularly annoying, and i think we should be allowed to call people on that.

stuff like "i have no self, I doesn't exist" " "nothing matters but right here right now" " its all emptiness" etc etc, cut the crxp folks get real, seriously if you really have any faith in buddhism and believe in the forums trying to introduce basic buddhism to newcomers, think about them, not yourself, and try to simplify your writing, not using big terms without concise definitions.

Quit being so egotistical and focusing on "ME" so much, alleviating suffering isn't even that important for you as it is to practice love and kindness, compassion and generosity, think about helping other people relieve their suffering before yourself, a buddhist with no ego would say, me, my suffering, my life, is not important, its my friends and family that are the most important to me,

As long as you meditate solely for your own spiritual advancement, and not for others, you are firmly grounded in samsara, or delusion. Meditation is a tool, only a tool to enable you to benefit all beings, and if you approach meditation without wholesome desires, its just going to backfire for you and make things worse, I won't name names.......

Jeffrey

I beg to disagree with you former. The specific line I agree with is that that kind of stuff like the slogans are kind of tiring. But I think everyone understands generosity in their own. Also I think we are very far from non-delusion here. In fact I do have a very big ego. jk

formermonkJohn

if you have a very big ego, i don't think you are getting the point of the buddha, not no self, not no me, not no I, but no ego, eliminate the ego as it is one of the biggest hinderances, and attachments, cultivate humility, be extremely willing to take criticism without getting angry etc. I think the buddhist teaching of no self comes out of the idea the self is the ego and needs to be deflated, etc

Jeffrey

I agree it needs deflating, but sometimes it floats on by. My teacher calls it pride, like a pride of lions.

SherabDorje

I think the one-liners that John refers to can be challenged more politely. I think politeness is the issue, which is what cranreuch is apologizing for. I think as long as we take issue with each other politely and intelligently without personalizing is something the moderators will allow.

It would of course be good to hear from a moderator here.

fivebells

if you have a very big ego, i don't think you are getting the point of the buddha

Counterexample!

genkaku

No one could be more critical of the Buddhadharma than I am. Kicking the tires is what I do best. And, when they aren't just blowing uninformed smoke, I appreciate the skepticism of others.

If Buddhism cannot stand the test of skepticism ... well, it's not my cup of tea.

Doubt is a great blessing, I think.

And doubt goes hand-in-hand with actual-factual practice -- the part where intellect and emotion are set aside by experience. Doubt and find out. Doubt and find out. Doubt and find out.

Just noodling.

formermonkJohn

if you eliminate the ego, or at least subdue it a lot, five bells, you see yourself as you really are;

in my case overweight, ugly, don't shower enough, lazy, unqualified for my job, history of drug addiction, charged with assault, time in jail, no girlfriend, lonely, bored, poor, horribly addicted to cigarettes and fighting an addiction to energy drinks, bossy, rude, obnoxious, loud. is that enough??

not having an ego allows you to present yourself to people in no better light than you really are, you can claim to be truthfully anything you actually are (except enlightened if you are a buddhist) without that being your ego speaking, but any time you deliberately try to present yourself as better than you are, more enlightened, more intelligent, more qualified than you really are; that's your ego speaking.

being able to accept criticism, being flexible, humble to a point but not belittling yourself for things you have actually accomplished, giving the merit for your actions to the buddha, not yourself, crediting the buddha entirely for any wisdom you have, these could be good examples of life with much less ego.

hermitwin

DD is pretty bad, but its like a durian, if you can put up with
the thorns, you get the gems.

fivebells

John, I agree with most of what you said. The video I linked to is a joke

...you can claim to be truthfully anything you actually are (except enlightened if you are a buddhist)

This raises an interesting point. I came across a guy recently who makes a fairly fairly strong argument in favor of claiming attainments. (He claims to be an arahant himself.)

formermonkJohn

ive seen some good examples of DD being willing to change his views when someone can demonstrate they are wrong, his statements about rebirth have seemed to grow from "this is how it is" to "this is what i believe", that's commendable.

Simonthepilgrim

Hey, @cranreuch, don't these guys get sidetracked easily, riding off in all directions on their hobby horses (I know I do!)? Just wanted to thank you for the apology. The first time I apologised on a forum was a great moment of liberation for me: I didn't have to get it right all the time and then get defensive; I could get things wrong, learn it, acknowledge it, apologise and move on.

As to what to do about that trickster ego? Well, that's another thread or threads. Well-trodden and muddy paths.

yiming

If Buddhism cannot stand the test of skepticism ... well, it's not my cup of tea.

Buddhism can stand up to anything. It is the Buddhist who cannot stand the slightest tremor.

DhammaDhatu

ive seen some good examples of DD being willing to change his views when someone can demonstrate they are wrong, his statements about rebirth have seemed to grow from "this is how it is" to "this is what i believe", that's commendable.

It all depends on the thread & context really

I do not troll pro-rebirth threads. I stay away from most pro-rebirth discussions

If the discussion is neutral, I will be more open in my views

But if a thread is started by someone who is not inclined towards rebirth, naturally, I will try to support their viewpoint so they can view Buddhism in a way that is beneficial for them

We do not want people who are not inclined toward rebirth running away from Buddhism now, do we? - just because some folks insist a "Buddhist" must believe in rebirth

Personally, my whole life is Buddhism. For 25 years years, my mind has been sustained solely by Dhamma (rather than by sensuality, relationships, etc)

I have never believed in rebirth and I do not look favourably upon fundamentalists who insist a Buddhist must believe in rebirth

In peace of mind, in Nibbana, there is not thought of rebirth - it is irrelevant for peace of mind & spiritual contentment

With metta

zidangus

cranreuch for what its worth i thought your OP in the closed thread was spot on, i didn't think it was out of line, i think criticism is healthy, if your ideas can't stand up to a little critique, then there not worth it. the moderators have this idea of a big happy new buddhist family, and that approach has its merits as well,

IMO reading about enlightenment then going around dropping terms and concepts that only an enlightened person could grasp or understand, when your not even close to enlightenment and don't even know what the terms you are using really mean; i find that particularly annoying, and i think we should be allowed to call people on that.

I have no problem with debating with anyone our different views, as long as respect is shown, however, sometimes it can cross the line and just be, well rude, and I can't see what being rude to people or mocking their opinion achieves. So all I can say is thank you for apologising cranreuch.


Metta to all sentient beings

federica

I think I will step in now.
All those conducting "to you, to me", discussions are welcome to continue them elsewhere, perhaps in PM. I take nothing away from the validity of comments made...
The apology has been graciously given, and has been accepted by all.
That was the original object of the exercise.

Thanks Cranreuch, thanks everyone:
I think we can close this now, although as previously mentioned, re-opening it is a mere PM request away.

With good reason though, I guess..

:thumbsup: