Did Buddha really said this?

hermitwin

The Buddha once remarked that a single moment of anger
can destroy 100 years of good deeds.

Vincenzi

sutric reference missing

DhammaDhatu

that saying is from Shantideva

bskal pa stong du bsags pa yi/ /
sbyin dang bde gshegs mchod la sogs/ /
legs spyad gang yin de kun kyang/ /
khong khro gcig gis 'joms par 'gyur/ /

All that you have accumulated over a thousand aeons—
Generosity, offerings to the buddhas and the like,
Whatever good you have done—all of it
Is destroyed in a single burst of anger.

Engaging in the Conduct of a Bodhisattva, VI, 1

DhammaDhatu

Shantideva (Sk: Śāntideva; Zh: 寂天; Tib: ཞི་བ་ལྷ། (Shyiwa Lha, Wylie: zhi ba lha); Mn: Шантидэва гэгээн) was an 8th-century Indian Buddhist scholar at Nalanda University and an adherent of the Madhyamaka philosophy of Nagarjuna.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shantideva

hermitwin

thanks DD.

formermonkJohn

shantideva is not the buddha.

federica

I think that's what DD is saying, John....

Jeffrey

shantideva was a bodhisattva though I think.

hvbson

THAT'S NOT IMPORTANT. ANGER LEADS TO BAD UTERRANCE AND ACTIONS(SO THE SITUATION IS WORSE)AND SICKNESS

taiyaki

some times it's okay to be angry. though most of the time it is unskillful.

Cloud

Ouch easy on the all-caps @hvbson!

Jeffrey

to me its kind of important factor. a bodhisattva would be wonderful.

SherabDorje

So did the Buddha say this or not? Some of us will accept it from Shantideva because we study Mahayana/Vajrayana, which is cool. And the saying makes sense although it may be hyperbole, which we see often in Mahayana/Vajrayana. But the question is whether or not the Buddha said this? So yes or no? Is it in the Pali Suttas?

fivebells

I'm so glad you're not a moderator, Sherab. You'd be utterly heavy-handed.

SherabDorje

The OP asked if the Buddha really said this. I look to this site for something interesting to read and reflect about. So I just really would like to see the OP's question answered. If you don't like it, PM a moderator and complain.

Nothing wrong with asking to have the OP's question answered.

Supertramp

Disregarding who said it or even if it was said (doesn't matter to me personally) I'd like to interpretate it though. I feel that I've come a long way reacting to certain situations skillfully, but whenever I react in a way that I later see as unskillful I do have a (short) feeling that it undoes all the skillful actions.
After a bit I still realise that I'm not a boddhisattva and I shouldn't be that tough on myself though, but for a boddhisattva that reasoning doesn't count ofcourse.

fivebells

...I just really would like to see the OP's question answered.

By most reasonable standards, DD did answer the question.

Your attitude would be quite domineering if it were backed by any power, but as it is, it's just slightly clownish.

genkaku

As a small footnote, I think we might all keep it in mind that whether Gautama actually said one thing or another is not the important part. The important part is whether what was said is true. And the only way to know that is to find out.

Angels on the head of a pin may make for a good discussion, but without finding out, pins have a way of sticking you in the butt.

hermitwin

thanks sherab, so does anyone have the answer?

Epicurus

Life has taught me the saying is not true. My friends are a testament to that.

fivebells

The answer is that that saying is from

thanks sherab, so does anyone have the answer?

The answer is that that saying is from Shantideva.

hermitwin

So, its not in pali canon?

fivebells

Which part of "from Shantideva" is unclear?

hermitwin

the unclear part.

SherabDorje

It's clear that Shantideva said it. But is there any reliable record of the Buddha having said it?

pegembara

The Buddha did say this though:

"Monks, even if bandits were to carve you up savagely, limb by limb, with a two-handled saw, he among you who let his heart get angered even at that would not be doing my bidding. Even then you should train yourselves: 'Our minds will be unaffected and we will say no evil words. We will remain sympathetic, with a mind of good will, and with no inner hate. We will keep pervading these people with an awareness imbued with good will and, beginning with them, we will keep pervading the all-encompassing world with an awareness imbued with good will — abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.' That's how you should train yourselves.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.021x.than.html

Dakini

I'm so glad you're not a moderator, Sherab. You'd be utterly heavy-handed.

This is just normal stuff. You haven't seen heavyhanded! But to answer the question, as far as we know, the Buddha didn't say that. I don't believe one second of anger can destroy 100 years of good deeds, but now we know why anger is such a taboo with some Tibetans!

aMatt

I would consider the notion that Shantideva is pointing at to be profound, no matter the initial source. If we do not work with our feelings skillfully, it doesn't matter how many prostrations, mantras, or generous deeds we do. One dandelion, untended, can propagate a countless number of dandelions. That doesn't make a single dandelion a travesty, but worth noting and working with directly and skillfully.

I wonder if the dramatic punch is simply for emphasis, or was their direct interpretation of balance. I imagine its the former, but I don't speak backwards in time, to ask

Victorious

If the samsara is endless and there are a countless number of buddhas presenting countless varieties of dhammas then is it not so that One buddha in all the eons expressed these exact words?

compassionate_warrior

I think the OP was asking about the historical Buddha, Shakamuni. :rolleyes:

SherabDorje

JOKE:

CW, I think if you were a moderator you'd be very heavy-handed.

END OF JOKE.

compassionate_warrior

hahaha! Thanks!

Victorious

I think the OP was asking about the historical Buddha, Shakamuni. :rolleyes:

Sorry cant remember. He said so many things and my memory stinks. Besides it was like 2500 years ago and I can hardly remember what my wife told me to get on the way home this morning.


:crazy:

formermonkJohn

now that i could believe!

DhammaDhatu

By most reasonable standards, DD did answer the question.

Thank you Five Bells

My reading is not complete however I have not read it reported in the suttas the Buddha spoke such a teaching. One would have to ask such a question on www.dhammawheel.com

For example, MN 136 does not apply such rigid determinism to karma.

Personally, I do not agree fully with what Shantideva has literally said but I do agree somewhat with his sentiment.

For example, if I develop exceptional skills in a job and get angry at a client, yes, I may lose my job & harm my reputation. But I do not destroy "all" of the good I have done. I still have my primary skills & the benefits of the good work I did remains.

Regards

hermitwin

I think Pegembara came the closest.
personally, I do not agree fully with what Shantideva has literally said.

vinlyn

I wonder how many years of right speech have been destroyed in this thread?

fivebells

You clearly wouldn't recognize Right Speech even if it came in the form of a two hour lecture on why that question is pompous, pious load of bull.

cranreuch

You clearly wouldn't recognize Right Speech even if it came in the form of a two hour lecture on why that question is pompous, pious load of bull.

Ah, shades of He Who Is Truly Wise.

Who, pray tell, can say (and NO GOOGLING) who uttered the following very similar piece of wisdom to whom:

"[name], you wouldn't know a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on a harpsichord singing 'Subtle Plans Are Here Again'"

Dakini

um...DD?

cranreuch

um...DD?

Nope. Good try though.

DhammaDhatu

I wonder how many years of right speech have been destroyed in this thread?

i wonder how many opportunities for enlightenment have been destroyed by obsessions about perfect karma & perfect morality

:-/

DhammaDhatu

personally, i cannot see the relevence of the Simile of the Saw sutta

i doubt the Buddha would say anything in the manner of Shantiveda

the Buddha taught there are four levels of enlightened beings & only two levels are free from anger

however, the Buddha declared each lower three level is destined for enlightenment

when one is realised emptiness, one, when mindful, is unconcerned with lapses of perfect conduct

the Buddha taught freedom rather than Shantideva's slavery

DhammaDhatu

And the saying makes sense although it may be hyperbole, which we see often in Mahayana/Vajrayana.

Thanks for clearly that up, SherabDorje

For a while, i was getting worried about eons in hell

I forgive Shantideva for his hyperbole and, in return, request his forgiveness of my hyperbole

formermonkJohn

DD said"the Buddha taught there are four levels of enlightened beings & only two levels are free from anger"

this is really exciting DD thats exactly what my revelation on enlightenment says there are four types of enlightenment, two contain anger(are bad forms) check out my second post on the thread i started, ENLIGHTENMENT IS NOT FOR EVERYONE and tell DD is there anything similar with my revelation and the buddhas, please

seeker242

Was Shantideva a wise man? If so, didn't the Buddha say that one should heed the words of the wise men? By "wise men" did the Buddha mean himself and only himself? I don't think that is the case. So what if it didn't come from the Buddha himself? If it comes from a wise man, does it really matter if that wise man was not Siddhartha Gautama?

DhammaDhatu

...two contain anger (are bad forms)

possibly, a miscommunication here

the two lower levels of enlightenment are immature or incomplete rather than "bad"

plus the anger is rare rather than common

i was merely suggesting one single act of anger will not destroy entirely the virtue, concentration & insight that has been developed

the Buddha declared each lower three level is destined for FULL enlightenment

with metta

federica

You clearly wouldn't recognize Right Speech even if it came in the form of a two hour lecture on why that question is pompous, pious load of bull.

Ah, shades of He Who Is Truly Wise.

Who, pray tell, can say (and NO GOOGLING) who uttered the following very similar piece of wisdom to whom:

"[name], you wouldn't know a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on a harpsichord singing 'Subtle Plans Are Here Again'"

Surely, that can only be Blackadder. It's classic Ben-Elton-speak.

federica

I wonder how many years of right speech have been destroyed in this thread?

Why on earth would they have been?
In that case, consider the whole forum, and work from that angle.

good luck with that....
:rolleyes: