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Meditation, Can you do it wrong?
Im wondering:
I follow the stuff that I read, I put it into practice, and I feel calm etc. and I can see improvements, but Im worried that I could get into bad habits. Is there really any way to do it wrong?
I follow the stuff that I read, I put it into practice, and I feel calm etc. and I can see improvements, but Im worried that I could get into bad habits. Is there really any way to do it wrong?
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Comments
In the worse case you can even get lost misinterpretation what happen to you and basically drive yourself crazy, or become afraid of harmless things and give up what was perhaps a practice that was making great progress.
Or the simple example of someone new to concentration meditation, trying to force his mind to not think, getting frustrated really quickly and then believing he is incapable of meditating or that "it's just not for me".
Which would prevent this person (perhaps even forever) of practicing an activity that could have been highly beneficial for his life.
This is why so many insist on the point of trying to find a teacher and qualified guidance.
But if you feel calm, peaceful you aren't doing it wrong and you are fine.
I just meditate now because it feels relaxing - and actually, the thoughts do kinda go away, but not because Im trying to make them. I just dont want to get it wrong.
Then you are doing great! Rule number one in meditation: If it feels good, it is good. Nice peaceful focus is what we will develop.
You might like to find a good book on meditation and read into it more. As a start, here is some nice information about hindrances that might come up sooner or later that prevent you from going deeper:
http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/The_Five_Hindrances_by_Ajahn_Brahmavamso
The mind is really very structured, it is amazing. Everything you experience as an obstacle fits into these five hindrances. Sometimes you run into something preventing you from going deeper and you can't find out what it is. Then think about the hindrances, it will be one of them or a combination of multiple. The Buddha was such a smart guy to find all this.
Be warned though, not every meditation will be good. Sometimes it just doesn't work, everybody's meditation falls apart sometimes, even that of monks. That is then a blockade your mind has to take.
Also you might like to follow the precepts as they make your meditation easier (you might not yet notice, but they do)
Hope this helps.
With Metta,
Sabre
If you do long meditations (like several days in a row) for the first time, you should have a supervisor or be in a meditation-group.
meditation, in the context of this thread, is a technique. something that the person willfully do.
there are many things we can do to make the time we spend on the cushion miserable, as in my last example. Wouldn't you say this is a wrong way to meditate? at least for the sake of simplicity and clarity to answer the question of a beginner?
All I do is sit in my chair, keeping my back straight with cushions, feet flat to the floor, count my breaths - trying to keep a focus on a particular point in my nose where the breath touches. If my mind wanders, I just go back to the breathing - without trying to fight it, just accepting it. After 10 mins or so I feel very peaceful, despite the internal discussion, and the longer I spend, the deeper it gets.
Anything wrong with this?
P
P
if you don't have a teacher it's fine for now. Just when you get stuck, or feel like you are lost, find a qualified teacher to describe your concerns to, either on the internet but preferably face to face.
welcome to the modern era where you can find plenty of instructions from around the world effortlessly.
if you can afford it, i strongly recommand you to buy "Mindfulness, Bliss & Beyond" from Ajahn Brham which can be your concentration meditation companion for years to come.
http://www.ajahnbrahm.org/books.html
In fact, trying to incorporate mindfulness in my 24 hour day-to-day, has been a lot more effective than to have to sit in a position I can't really manage (actually right now I can't even sit due to coccyx pain) and try to be there for 15 mins or more....
It's all about paying attention, being aware, being accepting, and making peace with whatever is happening. It's an innate human quality! You are just fleshing it out. It's not rocket science.
You can even do Vipassana off the cushion.
But don't dismiss the benefits of concentration meditation (which is not possible to do off the cushion, or at least you must stay still), as it will allow you to strengthen your ability to focus your mind without being distracted and benefit the mindfulness practice that you already incorporated in your life.
Without even mentioning the concentration states (Jhanas) that result of a stronger concentration.
If you don't mind me suggesting, since i've notice that you seem to have had troubles with sitting meditation, have you ever heard of Kasina meditation?
It is a concentration meditation, but instead of focusing on the breath, you focus on a external object.
Basically you can simply take a bowl or cutout a circle out of paper, must be of earth color, and prop it agaisnt a wall or on a chair. It must be slightly lower than your eye level at about 4-7 feet distance (so your eyes dont strain.)
Then stare at it and refocus your attention on it everytimes you get distracted.
and just see what happen.
This technique was incredibly easier than breath meditation for me to concentrate, something about the eyes being open and the object being far more obvious.
You can even do this standing up if you want.
I think it is a wonderful technique for people who think alot, the thoughts seem to be less distracting using kasinas.
my first 10 minutes doing this was all it took to convince me.
Yes, I plan on doing that when I can. I just personally have quite a problem with routine "tasks". It's not that it's boring to do 15 minutes of meditation (which... it is) twice a day . It's that it's boring to plan, to have to remember, to convince myself I have to do it on saturdays and sundays too...that if I get home too late I still ahve to do it, etc....Following a regimen is harder than something I can do every time everywhere.But, yeah, I'm sure one reaps benefits faster that way. Even though benefits shouldn't really be the point :P (ah...buddhism is hard sometimes).
Great sum up!
99.99% of people, I including, are clueless as to what really happens during meditation. It is the most complex, yet most accessible thing one can practice, and therein lies the paradox. To me it is akin to operating a nuclear reactor without a guide.
Having read your posts, I don't think you have much to worry about. The ill effects would have shown up by now.
http://www.openbuddha.com/2002/09/06/the-dangers-of-mediation/
PS. The daoists have a leg up on the buddhist when it comes to understanding the mechanics of meditation. All the best.
When it moves away, you gently put it back on the mat, repeatedly.
No scolding, no punishment, no anger.
Patiently & kindly bring it back.
"PS. The daoists have a leg up on the buddhist when it comes to understanding the mechanics of meditation. All the best."
We have great compassion for daoists for they do not know what they are talking about.You are one good example of daoists who has suffered 20 years of ill effects of meditation.
Daoists don't know what they're talking about? Humbleone is a good example of Daoists who has suffered 20 years of ill effects of meditation?
How do you know she was doing relaxation exercises?
I cite Tara Brach in her book "Radical Acceptance" to the point that someone who has established a good meditation practice having painful psychological phenomena happen to her while meditation. I also cite my own personal cup-of-tea interview with HE Jampal Shenpen, the 98th Ganden Tri Rinpoche of the Gelug School of Vajrayana Buddhism, which regarded the Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Panic Disorder I have had difficulty with my whole adult life in which he told me "Don't meditate too much".
Can you give us a citation to back up your unequivocal assertion that there are (apparently, according to you) no ill effects ever suffered by anyone from meditation?
Humbleone appears to be new to the forum. We usually treat new people with politeness and courtesy, and have developed polite ways to disagree with people.
Well there's always some risk involved in everything. And if you think about it for a second, when your goal is to fully realize non-self....the odds you might go crazy are pretty high
That is also why I said in another thread (and I'm the guy you DON'T want talking about meditation since I'm the youngest of meditation neophytes) that if it's causing you trouble you just shouldn't stick with meditation. Meditation has to prove it's worth to you. Otherwise there's just no point.
I've researched for myself when it came to meditation. I didn't ask for advice from one or two people and decided it was a good idea. Then comes common sense - I'm aware that some people are more prone to psychological damage and I'm aware I'm not one of them based on my entire life. Also, I'm aware that it's not one session that is going to make irreparable damage to me based on what I've read and heard and from understanding what meditation actually is.
Really, in the end only I can decide what is right for me. If I base myself solely on what others say, based on the data you've linked, how could I ever know if it was risky or not? In which scenario would I ever take the plunge?
It is not too hard to understand the mechanistic basis of the risks in meditation. Buddhist practice is essentially a means of taking apart the karma which we have based our lives on. That karma has evolved over decades, and is quite intricately structured. When you start pulling on parts of it, it can have unpredictable knock-on effects. Often, there is a lot of energy tied up by the karma, and releasing it in unskillful ways can severely disrupt the practitioner's life. And once you start taking it apart, the structure is likely to remain unstable, so you can't really afford to stop until you're finished. It's essentially the same set of problems which would arise from demolishing your own house.
Studies done with functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging and electroencephalogram show that meditation has pretty profound effects on the brain, and for some people these can lead to bad experiences.
I will say, that based on my limited experience, I haven't experienced anything "BAD"....but, what you described is my one gripe with Buddhism as a whole. I have this nagging feeling that separating myself so much from the past, my personality and everything else....well, sometimes I do question whether I'm doing the right thing or the thing I really believe in.
Buddhism makes one face everything bad about one's character or attitude towards life. Sarcasm is bad, addictions are bad, attachment is bad.....a lot of things that constitute our personality (lack of patience or constant joking to cover up a sad life etc) are not really good karma. Changing one's karma means changing oneself.
You are basically reprogramming yourself. I'm attached to certain parts of how I am. I like being the funny guy amidst friends, I like my dark sense of humor sometimes, or playing with people's heads etc etc The nagging feeling I have is that I'm killing my sense of identity...my habits...who I am! Identity is something very important for me. So is coherence. And buddhism is fucking that up for me in a way.
In theory I could see how someone might become kinda schizophrenic after a while along the path :P
My friend believes his son has schizophrenia bcos he learned meditation.
(Dr. Mehm Tin Mon: The Essence of Buddha-Abhidhamma)
First you should read http://www.abhidhamma.org/sitagu sayadaw.htm
and , http://www.abhidhamma.org/abhidhamma_and_practice.htm
Breathing in long, he understands; 'I breath in long'; or breathing out long he understand: 'I breath out long.' Breathing in short, he understands: 'I breath in short'; or breathing out short, he understands: ' I breath out short.'
(Now this is the important part)
*He trains thus*
'I shall breath in experiencing my entire physical body,' he trains thus: 'I shall breath out experiencing my entire physical body.' He trains thus: ' I shall breath in *tranquilizing* the entire physical body,' he trains thus: 'I will breath out *tranquilizing* the entire physical body.'
(Taken from the Majhima Nikaya, Sutta 10, Paragraph 4)
Why did the buddha say to breath in and relax, and to breath out and relax? Because the Buddha recognized that craving (the cause of suffering) always manifests as tension and tightness in your mind and in your body. And that the fast way to experience the cessation of suffering (which is the goal of the buddhist path) is to r-e-l-a-x