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Eckhart Tolle and Buddhism
hermitwin
Veteran
Is there any connection between Tolle and Buddhism?
Eckhart Tolle, author of A New Earth and The Power of Now.
Eckhart Tolle, author of A New Earth and The Power of Now.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdgO4UDrwm8
any comments on this teaching?
He basically says that thinking about an working towards acheiving enlightenment in the future will keep you from enlightenment because you are not embracing the here and now.
In Soto, one does not do zazen to become enlightened. It is only to express your true nature.
In Shin one does not recite Nembutsu to attain birth in the Pure Land, but to expresse gratitude that we are already embraced by Perfectly Awakened Infinite Light and Life, right here and right now.
Enlightenment isn't some time in the future, it is right now. of course that is also true of everything.
But this is again another concept, which is hard to understand with rational thinking, because the rational mind thinks in delusional terms (past, future).
His history describes a psychological breakdown resulting in a fugue state that lasted several years before he began his own teaching. He seems to think disassociation is the same as egoless enlightenment, and it's not. Neither is mindfulness. Mindfulness and quiet mind meditation are tools, only one part of the 8-Fold path. Learning how to swing a hammer is not the same thing as building a house.
But, here is the main thing that places him with the ranks of Enlightened Gurus that have come and gone. What is he actually teaching? Unless you wake up one morning with an unexplained, overwhelming sense of bliss and wander off to live in shelters for a couple of years, he's not teaching you how to follow in his footsteps. The Buddha set out deliberately to find the secret of eliminating suffering and in the end gave us a prescription that we can follow to do the same.
The man will collect some speaking fees, his self-help books will sell some copies and most will end up in thrift stores, and perhaps his message will spark a few people to seek something deeper.
I'm actually one of those, who has been very skeptical towards Buddhism, because I had no idea about it and put it in the same box with every religion and I did not have much respect towards religion back then. Mostly for all the blind beliefs & preaching etc.
Anyways, after reading Eckhart Tolle's book "The Power of Now", my perspective on spirituality changed drastically. And I am very thankful for this. I might have not found out about my own ignorance, if he didn't exist.
And I'm 100% sure there are many people who are in a similar situation I was in years ago...
The Gurus of the world are a mixed bunch. I met Da Free John once, as he was calling himself at the time, many years ago (he's dead now). Listened to him, watched him interact with others. They are highly charismatic people and obviously something happened to him in the past to change him. But, once he died, so did his followers and whatever message he had was jumbled and never once addressed the question, "How can I be like you?" The answer, you can't. He was born special. Enlightenment is something that just happened as an accident.
To be all Zen about it, I'd say he's not a finger pointing at the moon. He's a finger pointing to himself while he tells you about the moon. The Dharma is so powerful, that it can be glimpsed even through this man. It's amazing.
I agree that this introspection provided by someone like Tolle can encourage one to explore Buddhism. Byron Katie has an interesting take on acceptance and that brought me to Buddhism as well. They seem to provide some glimpses of enlightened thought and people can take it from there.
Yes. Eckart Tolle read a couple of books about Dzogchen or Mahamudra and then renamed it and pretended that he made them up so he could make a lot of money.
What a wonderful way of expressing this! That is the impression that I have of many gurus, both new age and other traditions.
To come back to the point that you made about 'mistaking' dissociation for progress toward enlightenment; my feeling is that much buddhist practice serves to induce dissociation, but this experience is interpreted and experienced quite differently to the dissociation experienced due to mental illness. They seem to be very similar, the only difference being the voluntary nature of it and the interpretation as being 'progress' rather than 'suffering'. It would be interesting to know what was going on neurologically.....
Metta
My understanding is that he lives a very modest lifestyle and is very, very generous to charity.
He seems sincere.
Metta
Also kinda creepy to be honest.
It would indeed. I became rather disillusioned with the quest for Satori early in my Zen path when I realized it was focusing on the door instead of what was on the other side of it. I got the impression that was a big hangup for a lot of Western folks.
The descriptions as given by the Masters seems to indicate a brief dissasociation. As much as it can be described. But the immediate next step is to go to a Master to have the awakening confirmed. And, that doesn't mean a person can immediately answer all koans and is perfect in their understanding. It's only a door they have finally walked through.
I have not read Tolle, too NewsAgey for me but I believe he just picks up concepts from places like Buddhism and uses them to promote his own Tolleism ie books and promotional materials. Sometimes on the surface things seem familiar, but on deeper inspection, they are far from the same.
I am sure he helps people in the Oprah, self help, sense of things but I doubt his is a complete system AND that when he uses concepts that may seem familiar in Buddhism - he does not get them from insight, just from repetition/plagiarism of sorts. That type of help I assume is more superficial as opposed to a Buddhist system of practice, which can be liberative in the true sense for example.
That's my bias and take on Tolle.
That's good for you being
He's done the incredible work of bringing maybe millions of people out of hopeless darkness, toward taking the first steps in the right direction.
The simple teaching of being here now can bring "miraculous" changes in many people's life.
Here is the problem with having a mind trained to the here-and-now as a spiritual goal. Someone who breaks into your house, picks up a knife, walks over and stabs you with it can and usually is being totally mindful of what they're doing. A person can be totally in the here-and-now and still acting out of selfish desire.
But, unless you're being mindful, you can't work on the other 7 parts of the 8-Fold Path.
It is a tool.
acting out of selfish desire is not a problem with being here and now; it's the problem of human suffering.
If so, good for him. Thanks for sharing.
All true, and why I was pointing out the pitfalls of someone only teaching a part of the 8-Fold path, in this case Mindfulness. It is a tool, not the ultimate goal.
Buddhism as represented by Theravada, Mahayana and Tibetan schools is a mixed bag of insight cluttered by cultural and traditional baggage. It is very confusing for a seeker.
Tolle presents his idea with the utmost clarity, free of cultural and traditional baggage,
He is the closest thing to an enlightened person that I have ever encountered.
If you have some knowledge about Buddhism, try listening to Tolle. Through him, I finally understand what Buddhism is trying to teach.
By the way, if you dont want to buy Tolle’s books, many videos are available on youtube.
Well no they are not, if you know what you are looking for.
I am sure Tolle is Easy-Lite though. No doubt on that one.
If that's what you're looking for, go for it, but don't imagine that it is the same as what Buddhism offers i.e. transcendent liberation.
— Eckhart Tolle
"This, too, will pass."
— Eckhart Tolle
Having commented on this thread three times now I thought it fair for me to read a bit of him. Having scanned, he sounds exactly as I had imagined he would be - full of New Age, nice sounding quips that you could get from a nice Grandmother. I am very happy and have no doubt that he can 'help' many people the world over and for that I am thankful, but to imagine he offers the same path - or can translate directly and clearly - the path of Buddhism, is I think a bit ... misunderstood
He also seems to have ripped off quite a few Buddhist concepts and ideas, but if it makes him money, good for him. Better if it helps people come to peace and lead lives that do not harm others. But that is not so easy if that were even his aim. And who knows what his intentions are, still he makes a good tosh of it so good for him. And good for anyone that finds he helps in their life.
Best wishes,
Abu
Strawman arguments FTW!!
(to Floating_Abu, not thickpaper)
just playing
I find some posts in this thread quite surprising. Hard to see any real good intentions and sincerity of posts mixed with cynicism and negative judgments.
It's like saying to someone: "Hey, I think you're a complete selfish retard and should shoot yourself. But it's okay. I wish you well."
If you ask me if psychology is the same as Buddhist practice, I would say no, there are similarities but they are not the same. If someone sold them as the same, I would point it out. If you call that cynicism, then that's your choice. And only sugar coated messages appear 'Buddhist'. I remember I thought that.
Best wishes,
Abu
That's not very nice.
Point out the strawmen patbb.
Dear being
That's just your interpretation - did you get that part. And it wasn't a nice one or an accurate one so that wasn't very nice.
Thanks,
Abu
Which part patbb? And the strawmen, please point it out.
No it wasn't:) I was referring to the cynicism of being negative about something just because it is not one's own view. I am not sure how such actions can be considered "Right Speech," in any sense.
namaste
I pointed out that his path is not Buddhism. And yes, money spinning New Age stuff - it is true I am not so amenable to. There is real suffering in this world which requires genuine liberation and transformation -- but that is just my bias. Sorry if I have tainted your own view of Right Speech, thickpaper.
I dont think he claims it is Buddhism. Does his path follow the middle path? It seems to to me from what I know. If it doesn't then could you explain where he contradicts Dharma?
Maybe yes. I don't know the answer to that. I wouldn't make that accusation unless I have evidence rather than mere opinion upon it; with is prejudice.
Sure, but I don't think the Buddha would have held your view. It aways used to amaze me how pro-other religions HHDL is, but now I think I get it, and it certainly isn't a cyncial instruction he makes.
I think if we want to be modern informed Buddhists then we should loose the bogus notion that if everyone was Buddhists there would be no suffering. There are still huge engines of suffering in terms of all manner of political and economic forces. In the same way, if Eckart Tolle is reducing Dukka, which millions claim he is, then surely that should be respected rather than criticized and slandered?
I have guess I have caused Dukka online. I think many of us talking here have. I think we should always try to reduce rather than cause dukka as we talk here, hard though that is:p Do you agree?
namaste
I would agree with that entirely. Thanks for the relay.
Well Thich Nhat Hanh said the three Dhamma seals of Dhamma teaching are annica, anatta, and dukkha. If a teaching does not share that, it is not genuine, says the Venerable One.
Ajahn Sumedho teaches the freedom of awareness, of the Four Noble Truths.
But apart from that of course. Does his path offer the light of insight, that which knows the five skandhas not as not-self but not-self and yet also Self. Does it shine the light of non-division between that which is seen, heard, touched with that which sees, hears and touches. Does it offer the path of Satori, that which sees everything as indivisible from oneself. Does one know the workings of karma, of conditionality. Is there Dependent Origination, that which forms this whole world of time and space. Does it point to that which is before time and space, yet is never apart from it. Does it genuinely and transformatively transform the heart/mind, whence anger once consuming, becomes consumed, and then...well it is different.
I have no doubt as I have said multiple times above - that if he helps people, that is good. And I have no doubt that there are many that find solaces in such messages and quips. And I think it is good if that is what people are looking for and interested in but it is not Buddhism.
This is an example of what Buddha has taught amongst other things
The fact that he also copy cats Buddhist ideas is also somewhat not amenable to me but perhaps you are right, I am too pig headed on that, and if he helps, then perhaps that is a fine thing.
New Agey just means they are light words and sentences, things that can help peoples' outlooks and ways of thinking. If it helps though then that's nice.
I can't speak for the Buddha and I am very appreciative of HH's messages. I would say the same thing but again if someone asked, it is more than obvious that Buddhism is not the same as reading Tolle.
Why do you say it is cynical to point out a fact? You see, HH speaks as a general audience and for that I would say the same. Please grant me that.
Where has be been slandered, thickpaper? Because I pointed out his writings are not Buddhism, that they are not a complete path of liberation and transformation?
Please understand, I completely agree with you, if he has helped people, wonderful. If he is of help, I am thankful. If however people imagine he is teaching Awakening in the sense that Gautama Buddha did, then I would say no, sorry he does not.
Not everyone needs Awakening but they should know which direction to look in if that is what they are after. And I fully agree, not everyone needs Buddhism, that is also fine, and absolutely so. The Dharma is never absent anyway.
You are a sweetheart and very nice. Thankyou for your challenge and thankyou for this discussion, it has been a long time for me.
Thankyou again.
Blessings.
As I have already described in this thread, I was one of those, whose eyes Eckhart's words opened. Thanks to his book, which was NOT focused to any religion, but just explanations of how things are. And with time this (and learning meditation) made me open towards Buddhism. Step by step I became understanding of Buddhas teachings.
Taxonomy is not understanding. Also, without actually having so much as met this gentleman it is really difficult for me to understand how an ordinary person let alone a buddhist practitioner can speak so harshly of his motivation. There is no question that what Tolle teaches lacks many of the pedagogical devices and other skillful means that Buddhism has. I also believe that his realization is not total. None of this should prevent one from acknowledging that what he is doing is positive and well meaning.
Because it is not a fact you point out, it is a negative opinion based on your prejudices.
namaste
I'll stick with teachers I feel more sure of such as Ajahns Sumedho and Amaro.
We all have our opinions, and mine differs considerably from yours. "A New Earth" is in large part responsible for my finding the Buddhist path to start with. It took a wise teacher to catalyze things, but I had more "ah ha!" moments from reading Tolle than I had from anything before that.
Yes, he's more "pop" than lots of Buddhist teachers, but then he's aiming at a different audience. If he only ever made a difference in one life, I think he would be successful. And he definitely did that with me. And I know I'm not the only one.
I quite agree. If it's not for you, that's fine. But don't rip him because of it. Can you spell "ego"?
We all talk based on our opinions and understandings
Can you, Mountains?