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Which of the 5 Buddhist precepts do you usually break?

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Comments

  • does it make you happy? are you harming anyone?

    i think people should masturbate and have sex more. i feel most people repress their sexuality and thus cause a lot more problems.

    it's okay to feel pleasure and have sex and masturbate. these are all healthy and great things.
    Sorry catching up, new member! had to comment! i hadnt read all the thread so please excuse me if l am repeating anything or covering old ground.

    Sex can be healthy it depends on your mindset, your place in the relationship and the possible outcomes. Sex for me it a totally intimate event that i share with a partner. I have had terrible relationships, maybe through bad choices but they occured and all previous partners places much emphasis on sex and how it should be. It wasnt healthy for me, l was paranoid and distressed and it overall wasnt good, so l do feel the sex isnt healthy for everyone. its a psychological state of mind, it can cause problems and issues, its not just an act, its supposedly a loving act shared...that in itself is the issue the sharing, is it equal..

    i am rambling!! i dont have sex, l dont drink any alcohol, l do smoke ciggerettes and drink tea and coffee though!!!

  • LesCLesC Bermuda Veteran

    This kind of annoys me that even a single drink is considered breaking the precept...
    I think you've misread the precept... It says "Avoid Intoxication", it doesn't say drink no alcohol. A person (unless there's something seriously wrong) can have a single drink without becoming intoxicated, especially if that drink is consumed along with food.




  • This kind of annoys me that even a single drink is considered breaking the precept...
    I think you've misread the precept... It says "Avoid Intoxication", it doesn't say drink no alcohol. A person (unless there's something seriously wrong) can have a single drink without becoming intoxicated, especially if that drink is consumed along with food.



    Thanks. There is a lot of debate over the meaning of this precept and I've heard several monastics say it means you cannot even drink a single drink. So, while I definitely do not drink for the sake of intoxication, I've heard multiple times that this doesn't matter.
  • Hmm, looking a little further into it, this is an actual Sutta reference:
    "Furthermore, abandoning the use of intoxicants, the disciple of the noble ones abstains from taking intoxicants. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the fifth gift, the fifth great gift — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that is not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and is unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & priests."

    — AN 8.39
    So, I dunno. Maybe it's a little looser of an interpretation than I thought. I guess I will try to avoid drinking anything, but if I do have something like a glass of wine or a beer with dinner, I won't worry too much.
  • i think people should masturbate and have sex more. i feel most people repress their sexuality and thus cause a lot more problems.
    I know many consider it important to harness this special qi, but sometimes I wonder if it is true that routine masturbation helps to alleviate a lot of stress and discomfort. Akin to Wilhelm Reich's theories. There have been times in which I have had a pain somewhere, or been depressed, and masturbation will make me forget about it for a while. I've read Chia's stuff and it helps too, though I'm no expert-- it's all complicated...

    This kind of annoys me that even a single drink is considered breaking the precept...
    The reason that precept is there is to keep one from breaking the Dhamma. If you can manage to have a small drink with friends and keep the Dhamma in good faith, what's the problem?
  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited August 2011
    i think people should masturbate and have sex more. i feel most people repress their sexuality and thus cause a lot more problems.
    I know many consider it important to harness this special qi, but sometimes I wonder if it is true that routine masturbation helps to alleviate a lot of stress and discomfort. Akin to Wilhelm Reich's theories. There have been times in which I have had a pain somewhere, or been depressed, and masturbation will make me forget about it for a while. I've read Chia's stuff and it helps too, though I'm no expert-- it's all complicated...
    I've heard from multiple sources that masturbation is not sexual misconduct, though attachment to pleasurable states is ultimately something to be moved beyond.

    This kind of annoys me that even a single drink is considered breaking the precept...
    The reason that precept is there is to keep one from breaking the Dhamma. If you can manage to have a small drink with friends and keep the Dhamma in good faith, what's the problem?
    Yeah, I understand that, but, as I've said, I've heard from long-practicing monastics that even a single drink is breaking the precept to refrain from intoxicants. Also, even a single drink will depress awareness to some extent, though not enough to lead to other causes of harm, imo.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    This kind of annoys me that even a single drink is considered breaking the precept...
    I think you've misread the precept... It says "Avoid Intoxication", it doesn't say drink no alcohol. A person (unless there's something seriously wrong) can have a single drink without becoming intoxicated, especially if that drink is consumed along with food.



    No, that's not what it says.

  • edited August 2011
    I don't think the problem with our civilisation right now is people not having enough:

    sex
    drinking
    drugs
    entertainment drugs



    with their mind if not physically.

    More of this "it's okay if you break precepts with good intentions in mind" seems pretty dodgy.
  • Some people have no self-control to lose. In fact, you can find comments here that said drinking give them confidence, and I suppose, that means self-control too.

  • LesCLesC Bermuda Veteran

    @not1not2 You have used the words "monastic" several times in your posts. Are you planning/trying to become a monk? There are different rules for monks and lay people. Monks certainly would refrain from alcohol consumption, but lay people have no such requirement.

    Same goes for sex.

    Lighten up! This is not supposed to be torture - physical or mental!


  • @not1not2 You have used the words "monastic" several times in your posts. Are you planning/trying to become a monk? There are different rules for monks and lay people. Monks certainly would refrain from alcohol consumption, but lay people have no such requirement.

    Same goes for sex.

    Lighten up! This is not supposed to be torture - physical or mental!

    No, I'm not shooting for monasticism anytime soon. I just used to be on a forum where monastics took part in discussion and more than one of them was insistent about this precept meaning none at all. I'm not torturing myself and I still haven't formally taken on the 5 precepts, though I do use them as a guideline for my activities.
  • I drink every once and awhile and i have sex but I don't let it conceal my life!!
    So, is that breaking the precepts or not?

  • I drink, I make love often, I used to do drugs. I don't see why drinking is so bad as long as you keep it under control and not the other way around. I won't begrudge people that don't drink. But just because I like to go to the bar with some friends or I drink a glass or two of whiskey after a rough day I don't think it is right for me to be looked down upon. Not my fault you feel so high and mighty and can't hold your liquor.
    Now that you mention drugs, drinking should not be that bad unless it distorts our mind.
  • edited August 2011
    Precept 1: I'm a vegan, so no trouble there. I have a hard time accepting that eating meat is healthy Buddhist practice. Given the state of meat production, its effects on your physical health, and its effects on your ego-mind, I think that vegetarianism is implicitly necessary for a healthy Buddhist discipline. By buying meat (which is different from a monk receiving meat), you are expressing dominance over another sentient being. I think that's unhealthy.

    Precept 2: I download a lot of music without even thinking about it. It's just become such a normal habit growing up alongside the internet, that I don't think about it often. Like any good pirate, I rationalize my downloads, however. I absolutely will not pirate a new album by a small band. They need my support. However, I don't think I need to feel bad about downloading Frank Zappa or Maurice Ravel music, though. They're dead; they don't need my money. Anybody selling their music now could be considered thieves themselves. As a musician myself, I believe in releasing recorded music for free (which I've done with every track I've released since I was like 16). Additionally, bands tend to make such little money on record sales. Perhaps this is a practice I should abandon, though.

    Precept 3: I have a healthy relationship with my fiancée. I think that will suffice, haha.

    Precept 4: I make a considerable effort to be both honest and tactful.

    Precept 5: I enjoy beer. I almost never have more than two in a day, and I don't have one anywhere close to every day. I like the complex taste of beer, not its effects. I don't drink it to get drunk. I occasionally drink liquor, but it's always in private with my fiancée. I don't mind admitting that I'd be better off never drinking liquor.

    I worry more about caffeine and sugar than I do alcohol, honestly. I think a lot of Americans are addicted to coffee and food with sugar (or HFCS...yuck), and nobody wants to demonize either dependency.
  • I came from a strict religion that believed that any alcohol is a no-no. Some people would even avoid medicine and vanilla extract! So this one is pretty simple for me. Besides for me, Dharma books>booze when it comes to shopping! :p
    I actually think this is a grey area, but I do struggle with being completely honest about certain topics with my family. I guess this is the "lie of omission."
    I wonder if one can consider 'omission' a lie.
  • Precept 1: I'm a vegan, so no trouble there. I have a hard time accepting that eating meat is healthy Buddhist practice. Given the state of meat production, its effects on your physical health, and its effects on your ego-mind, I think that vegetarianism is implicitly necessary for a healthy Buddhist discipline. By buying meat (which is different from a monk receiving meat), you are expressing dominance over another sentient being. I think that's unhealthy.

    Precept 2: I download a lot of music without even thinking about it. It's just become such a normal habit growing up alongside the internet, that I don't think about it often. Like any good pirate, I rationalize my downloads, however. I absolutely will not pirate a new album by a small band. They need my support. However, I don't think I need to feel bad about downloading Frank Zappa or Maurice Ravel music, though. They're dead; they don't need my money. Anybody selling their music now could be considered thieves themselves. As a musician myself, I believe in releasing recorded music for free (which I've done with every track I've released since I was like 16). Additionally, bands tend to make such little money on record sales. Perhaps this is a practice I should abandon, though.

    Precept 3: I have a healthy relationship with my fiancée. I think that will suffice, haha.

    Precept 4: I make a considerable effort to be both honest and tactful.

    Precept 5: I enjoy beer. I almost never have more than two in a day, and I don't have one anywhere close to every day. I like the complex taste of beer, not its effects. I don't drink it to get drunk. I occasionally drink liquor, but it's always in private with my fiancée. I don't mind admitting that I'd be better off never drinking liquor.

    I worry more about caffeine and sugar than I do alcohol, honestly. I think a lot of Americans are addicted to coffee and food with sugar (or HFCS...yuck), and nobody wants to demonize either dependency.
    I too download ... allot. I download some music and often buy later. I download movies and TV shows from the us too. Does a good share ratio equal karma? :-) I accept it's wrong. I pay a lot of money on TV on sky in the UK and these shows/ movies are shown a few months after I download them so its a grey area for me.

    Alcohol is an interesting one too. I've probably drank the same amount this year as a lot of people drink in a week. After a drink I do suffer for days. But the precept covers many things and could be interpreted in many ways.

    Finally. I eat meat but try to be mindful at the same time. I don't take the life of the animal and the amount of meat simply dumped from not being sold by supermarkets is also shocking. I do kill bugs but I'm working on it. I'm only just coming back to Buddhism and its amazing the way it makes you think of everything around you whether it be a tree in the garden, People in your life or simply your own behavior. I'm trying to increase my "skillful behaviour"
  • (1)I haven't killed anything in a loooooooong time. Unless you count cultivating yeast in order to bake bread.
    (2)Erm...does eating your kids' leftovers from dinner and occasionally borrowing your husband's clothes count as stealing?...:D
    (3)I lie far more often than I am comfortable with, and I'm looking at cutting down gradually.
    (4)Happily married and sexual misconduct days are long past.
    (5) I don't smoke or do illegal drugs, I'm on prescription drugs, I drink tea, eat chocolate and take the odd painkiller, and have the odd 1-2 beverages with a meal.

    In non-Buddhist terms, I am what you might call 'square'. :hiding: In Buddhist terms, I'm keeping to the Precepts as best as I know how right now.
  • Yes I break the second precept often and willingly... I download media. But I have an issue with that being stealing. Stealing is defined as taking something from someone so as to deprive them of it. Torrent movies might fall into that category if I was depriving the owner (the movie studio) of earned revenue because I would then not go see the film in a theatre or buy the DVD. In my case, I only download movies that I have no chance of ever seeing in a theatre, and would never consider purchasing the DVD. Therefore even if I never downloaded the movie, the studio would never see revenue from me, so therefore no loss to them. I suppose it could be considered copyright infringement, but that could be construed as someone using the material for monetary benefit, usually non monetary doesn't apply. I have struggled with this, but as the original owner hasn't actually lost anything, the person who is sharing it with me gave me permission to have it (and for all I know he may have purchased it, so is a legitimate owner) and I am not exploiting it for monetary gain, I consider this not stealing, but I'm open to other views.

    Perhaps, it is not stealing. You are just making another copy ; the original is still there and this copyright thing is a man-made thing. Just imagine if we copyright apple so that other people cannot eat the fruit unless they pay. That would really make the apple a forbidden fruit!
  • Yes I break the second precept often and willingly... I download media. But I have an issue with that being stealing. Stealing is defined as taking something from someone so as to deprive them of it. Torrent movies might fall into that category if I was depriving the owner (the movie studio) of earned revenue because I would then not go see the film in a theatre or buy the DVD. In my case, I only download movies that I have no chance of ever seeing in a theatre, and would never consider purchasing the DVD. Therefore even if I never downloaded the movie, the studio would never see revenue from me, so therefore no loss to them. I suppose it could be considered copyright infringement, but that could be construed as someone using the material for monetary benefit, usually non monetary doesn't apply. I have struggled with this, but as the original owner hasn't actually lost anything, the person who is sharing it with me gave me permission to have it (and for all I know he may have purchased it, so is a legitimate owner) and I am not exploiting it for monetary gain, I consider this not stealing, but I'm open to other views.

    Perhaps, it is not stealing. You are just making another copy ; the original is still there and this copyright thing is a man-made thing. Just imagine if we copyright apple so that other people cannot eat the fruit unless they pay. That would really make the apple a forbidden fruit!
  • I've broken all of 'em. I've been a very naughty Buddist. But I'm working on it. ;-)
  • I've never drank much (beer maybe twice a year, some occasional sake) but I've cut drinking out entirely since I've been getting myself more fit. Alcohol was the first and easiest thing to strike off.

    Probably sexual misconduct insofar as masturbation is concerned (I don't feel guilty because of it, but I do find it an annoyance and needless distraction). I am celibate, though that isn't entirely by choice. But I'm beginning to think relationships are really too complicated anyway.

    But normally, even insects I won't harm, sometimes going out of my way to not kill them. I let spiders roam the place, I gently nudge earthworms and crickets out the door. There have been two incidents where I noticed a (1) praying mantis, and on another occasion (2) a walking stick, clinging to the antennae of my car several years ago and I ended up driving very slowly to get to my night job at the time,being late on both occasions (I wasn't practicing Buddhism back then though).

    I saved a field mouse a few months ago where I work that was caught in this sticky trap, wearing gloves and careful so that he wouldn't bite me. It took ten minutes of careful work. I wouldn't have done it except that a co-worker gleefully showed me the poor thing (he apparently thought it was cool) and I couldn't bear it.

    BUT... all that said, I had a literal plague of houseflies in my apartment a couple months back and somehow got to reproducing somewhere in the place-- my cat's food I think (I keep my place clean, but the flies have been bad this year-- everyone in town has been talking about it). I finally had to resort to hanging strips of fly paper everywhere. It was awful.

    But where I am the worst is I can curse enough to make a sailor blush. I'm seriously working on that one.
  • You can *call* yourself anything you want to. Whether you uphold it or not is an entirely different matter.

    Just like sitting in a garage doesn't make me a car, calling myself a Buddhist doesn't make me a Buddhist.
    They say a rose by anyname is still a rose. Unless you see the rose itself, you'd think it is some kind of weeds.
  • I'm new to BuddhismI'm disappointed in a lot of the comments I've read here. I was interested in reading what people confessed to, not this.
    But I'm new to Buddhism, and still unsure if bring curious of such stuff is even right minded to begin with.
    I think Buddhism is not about making confessions.

  • I'm afraid to say I kill spiders if I have to. I feel awful but I'm really arachnophobic. I normally get my hubby to relocate them, if I'm on my own I do the glass and paper thing (which makes me feel sick). But if I can't get them out alive I'm afraid I have to kill it. I can't be in the same room as one :(
  • Buddhists are not perfect. We're just people. Most of us try our best to follow the path, but even the best of us will sometimes stray. We're just human after all. Don't be disappointed to find that out. The key is to be mindful. That doesn't mean you'll never say an angry word. It doesn't mean you'll never eat chicken again (perhaps). It just means that you're making an effort to cultivate mindfulness of everything you do, think, and say.


    Lots of Buddhists have sex. If they didn't Buddhism would die away!

    :)
    I second to that!

  • I don't think masturbation is sexual misconduct
    It all depends upon what your thinking about when you masturbate...
    Maybe when you masturbate, you don't think.
  • The Nine Vow Buddha

    Once a young monk, after living in the temple for some years, asked for an audience with the old Master.

    "Master," the monk said, "You gave me a list of ten vows when I first joined the temple, and told me keeping the vows was my practice. Nine of the ten vows I have no problem with. But, I can't stop thinking about women. All day and all night, my blood boils. Even the mellons in the garden got me flustered this morning, and in order not to be embarassed I had to...you know."

    The monk hung his head in shame. "I have failed in my practice. I can only obey nine of the vows, no matter how hard I try."

    The Master looked at the monk in astonishment. "You've managed to keep nine of the vows? Why, I can never keep more than six of them for a single day! You should be teaching me."
    Thanks for this story! Nice!
  • I would have to disagree with people who said it's okay to drink as long as it's under "control." If you truly had it under control, you would not be drinking.
    You have a point!

  • I'm afraid to say I kill spiders if I have to. I feel awful but I'm really arachnophobic. I normally get my hubby to relocate them, if I'm on my own I do the glass and paper thing (which makes me feel sick). But if I can't get them out alive I'm afraid I have to kill it. I can't be in the same room as one :(
    I hate spider-cide so I bought my kids a humane spider catcher. It looks like a brush at the end of a plastic pole. You pick up the spider in the bristles and transport it to a window or door. Then you release the handle and off it goes. No glass and paper required - you don't even have to look at the spider once you've caught it.

    I also bought spider deterrent spray, which is based on horse chestnut (which spiders hate). You spray it around the floor and it deters them.

    Plus, if you don't want spiders in the bath tub, leave a piece of cloth dangling over the side so they can escape. They will generally do this when its dark and quiet so you'd never know if a spider had used the escape route.

  • Thanks for the tip AdaB. I must get some of that chestnut spray! I heard they don't like those. Someone told me to put chestnuts in the corner of the room or on the door frames. I'm going to look for one of those spider catcher things too :)
    X
  • I break my promises sometimes and lie to my ex by telling her that she looks good when she looks opposite to what I said. I drink occasionally, by sharing libation in sacred space. I killed a bug last week. I used my sister's computer without even asking for her permission. I am A-Sexual, so, I'm not sure if this counts, but, if it does then I am guilty of that too. So, in my life the five precepts are broken equally at different times in totality.
    At least you are aware. It is not that everyone is awake.
  • Anyway, the purpose of the precepts is not about 'following rules', but rather to create conditions that are conducive to insight and awakening. The precepts are to refrain from unskillful, adhammic activities. This is not a good v. bad situation, but a what will bring about the end of suffering situation.
    I suppose that's why one would not have his or her tongue cut off if one is caught drinking!
  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    edited October 2011
    all of them apart from sexual misconduct as I am a relationship kind of guy :) as for taking things that are not mine, that is a grey area because i do not steal as such, but I use my friends shower gel sometimes, little things like that because I know they wouldn't mind.
  • not1not2 there are a few non-alcoholic beers you might try. Becks is decent. Clausthaller is good. Kaliber is made by guiness. Theres even a NA wheat beer though I forget the name.

    I'm not saying this to nitpick you just giving a heads up on a way to have a few brews and stay totally clear.
    Non-alchoholic beers should not be called beers at all and if they are, they are still not intoxicants and drinking them should not be breaking the precepts at all.

  • footiam there is ten times less alcohol in a NA beer. It is just called beer because it has a similar taste. Its actually a low calorie refreshing beverage. You would have to drink 30 of them to get a buzz and by that time you would have peed everything out anyways.

    And no they are not intoxicants, I haven't felt any mental effect.
  • ive taken the ten precepts and i usually break the celibaacy one [which im working on]because i masturbate at least once every week. but im trying to stop completley but i havent done the required meditation so thats my poroject this week.
  • The taking of life is my hardest... I'm 47 and have eaten meat all my life, and don't enjoy salads. I'm thinking about my diet and contiplating if and how I can make a drastic change.

    I don't steal

    Sex only with my wife, so no misconduct

    I make a great effort to not lie

    I enjoy beer, but limit myself to one... I'm comfortable with this as I am not getting drunk (causing heedlessness)
  • Lying is the hard one for me. I don't do it often, but there are certain things that I simply don't bear out full honesty with (in real life, personal stuff).
  • Telly I tried to go vegetarian and did it for two years but I didn't make too good food. Like everything cheese and pasta, almost every meal was different combinations of butter and cheese etc..

    Now I eat meat but I will pick out a vegetarian recipe that looks good with some good flavor like lemon, garlic, spices and so forth.

    When I go somewhere for example denny's diner I order a little healthier. For example I get the veggie omelette which is still very good and delicious but relative to the meat lovers it is very different.

    So the key is to try to enjoy what you do even though you sometimes which you could just have a bacon burger or whatever. I think you always have that wish (as a convert) to gorge on meat.

    I used to think of veggies as bad tasting now I just think of them as something neutral I put in my mouth. They don't really taste good, but I am happy that I am eating healthy.
  • footiam there is ten times less alcohol in a NA beer. It is just called beer because it has a similar taste. Its actually a low calorie refreshing beverage. You would have to drink 30 of them to get a buzz and by that time you would have peed everything out anyways.

    And no they are not intoxicants, I haven't felt any mental effect.
    They should call them non-beer!
  • Lying is the hard one for me. I don't do it often, but there are certain things that I simply don't bear out full honesty with (in real life, personal stuff).
    Same here. There are somethings I would never tell people except for few close to me.
  • @footiam I would guess so, since it is a gradual process and being 'tipsy' could be just as damaging to others as being blind drunk... For me drinking is also a way of getting in touch with my confidence, which means I get a better idea of how things will feel when I finally have confidence sober. Its not good according to the precepts, but I feel like I am getting a glimpse of how I will be able to enjoy socialising when I am confident, which is something I am really working on!
    I just read a story about a man who found some beers and drank just because he thought it was not an important precept.When the owner asked if he had drank his beers, he said no, thereby breaking the second and third precepts. Now, the owner was a pretty lass, and being tipsy know, he started to molest her and if he ended up killing her, he would have broken the the fourth and fifth precepts,too.

  • Having sex is not breaking any precept unless your trying to become a monastic.

    As for the rest of the precepts. Everyone can do as they wish, just don't complain when unpleasant consequences happen to you.

    Having sex without the consent of the partner should be breaking the precept.

  • probably lying
  • I drink every once and awhile and i have sex but I don't let it conceal my life!!
    Some people think drinking is breaking the precept but most probably you don't think so. As for having sex, that is not necessarily breaking the precept if it is not illicit sex.
  • Abstaining from intoxication is the one I break the most - it's really easy to work when taking stimulants. I'd like to work on concentration and awareness
    To improve my focus instead of stimulants. I rarely drink, and when I do its a single glass. I have also stopped smoking cigarettes. I'm just beginning to get back into practice so I'm sure that will help!
  • Abstaining from intoxication is the one I break the most - it's really easy to work when taking stimulants. I'd like to work on concentration and awareness
    To improve my focus instead of stimulants. I rarely drink, and when I do its a single glass. I have also stopped smoking cigarettes. I'm just beginning to get back into practice so I'm sure that will help!
    Stimulants, if it helps us to work, sound like something good.
  • Have you perhaps taken an insect's life, take things not given, give in to uncalled for sex, lie and drink the devil's drink?
    It is was quite uncalled for. Hahah. This really got me laughing.

    But in all serious, I am good on all the precepts except alcohol intake. But when I drink a lot, it provides joy to all in attendance!
  • Drinking and providing joy to all in attendance- mm...mm... breaking this precept is not a bad thing perhaps....
  • I've broken all of 'em. I've been a very naughty Buddist. But I'm working on it. ;-)
    Some people enjoy being naughty!

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