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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
I think drug use is so prevalent in modern society because of the hollowness of the goals. Money, success, fame, as well as the bombardment of advertising telling us how fabulous our lives could be or should be. This environment leaves people feeling unfulfilled and depressed. Drugs are an easy way to find some bliss and relief.
Its subjective - do you consider your response to that to be conditioned in any way? For example, why would freedom naturally result in hedonism and anarchy?
We all die and noone knows what happened before or after - it is all speculation - we should be free to live our life as we choose and it's probably possible without unacceptable levels of chaos (to some extent, variety is the expression of chaos so its not all 'bad').
Yes - its the categorisation of what is and is not 'wholesome' that is difficult to reconcile - the categories are taken for granted and the debate rages at a higher level once activities have labels already - its tough as the issue of looking at the labels is pushed aside in favour of arguing about whether something that is already 'bad' should be allowed - the question that arises in my mind is 'what is this thing categorised as bad?', 'why bad?'... this examination of labels for me also extends to 'what is cool?' on the OP - for me, much more interesting considering why people pursue 'cool' than what they do in pursuing it - I wonder if by dealing with the root of the issue, it is possible to undertake many activities that may otherwise be considered 'bad' or unwholesome - the only way I can think of to achieve this is for us to consider the labels themselves.
Who is to say what is and what is not the 'quest'? I am all for freedom of the precious moments and in that I share but I dont want to dictate.
In my view, you're really only telling one side of the story -- freedom of the individual. But there is also the need for structure for the society as a whole.
We say that very well on this site a couple of days ago. Someone breezed into our forum and did what -- used the principle of free speech...and in doing so, totally disrupted our little society.
I think drug use is so prevalent in modern society because of the hollowness of the goals. Money, success, fame, as well as the bombardment of advertising telling us how fabulous our lives could be or should be. This environment leaves people feeling unfulfilled and depressed. Drugs are an easy way to find some bliss and relief.
Thank you, person! This is the answer I was looking for to my "why" question.
Someone breezed into our forum and did what -- used the principle of free speech...and in doing so, totally disrupted our little society.
IMHumbleO a truly free individual is the ideal individual to contribute to a stable society structure -my mind lives in a utopian dreamland where everyone shares a collective consciousness...
I wasnt disturbed by Hubris and nor (if I had a vote) would I vote for him to be excluded - I was greatly heartened by Lincoln's response that his email is public and the door is metaphorically open.
Agree with you on the need for structure - it just seems to me that the present structure and established labels are geared towards economic gain.
IMHumbleO a truly free individual is the ideal individual to contribute to a stable society structure -my mind lives in a utopian dreamland where everyone shares a collective consciousness...
I wasnt disturbed by Hubris and nor (if I had a vote) would I vote for him to be excluded - I was greatly heartened by Lincoln's response that his email is public and the door is metaphorically open.
Agree with you on the need for structure - it just seems to me that the present structure and established labels are geared towards economic gain.
Gee, I don't live in a utopian dreamland. I don't know of a utopian dreamland.
I live in the real world. As did Siddhartha/Buddha. I will die in the real world.
my mind lives in a utopian dreamland where everyone shares a collective consciousness...
Now he tells us! hahahaha! What a great finale! Hey, it's been fun, Zero. Same to you, vinlyn.
I think it was some Native Americans who observed at one point in history that freedom includes the freedom to wisely refrain from indulgence. Freedom comes with responsibility.
P.S. Zero--I don't think vinlyn was referring to Hubris. It was nigelart.
Drugs will continue to be around as long as humans are around, thus spending countless of millions of dollars, pounds whatever on trying to control it is pretty illogical. The governments could make so so so much money if they made drugs legal. The amount they would make from tax would be incredible.
Going back to the precepts, they are not laws that somebody is going to punish you for not keeping, but they are guides. You will get punished, but by yourself.
Also as somebody has already said, the word drug is such a broad word to use and it gets thrown around way too much. People who know very little about drugs often consider them to be all evil and sometimes each equally evil, or they only know what they get fed by the government. My mother for example, she would let me smoke weed but when I told her I took LSD and ecstasy, you are a fool and really doing harm tom. Well mother, smoking weed is actually more unhealthy for you as smoking anything is not good, plus there is tobacco in my joints. Also mum, you smoke cigarettes, those legal things, you know, those sticks that kill hundreds of thousands a year in the UK.
Proffesor Nutt from England, my hometown actually, he released an article about substances and their controlled class. This was written after research and he made claims such as ecstasy is safer than horse riding. The whole classing of drugs is really messed up, it makes no sense in mosr cases. If you are interested in Mr Nutt google him, he sunsequently got the sack from the government after releasing his data. He got the sack for releasing actual data which is pure fact... hmm.
Ecstasy is safer than horse riding in some respects I am sure, however I don't think I will discourage my daughter from riding to pursue an ecstasy habit - although I have had people tell me how it has opened their minds, my experience suggests the activity of horseriding and all this can entail would be more beneficial to the mind than ecstasy.
About a week ago the people who sit next to me in the library during my lunch period created a survey asking people in my school if they smoked marijuana. I have not seen the final results yet since there still collecting data, but I saw the results after 2 days of survey taking and they were about 45% do and 55% don't.
Ecstasy is not physically addictive, I took it for 4 years however because I have an addictive personality and it did a lot of what you said above. It is mentally addictive. Per year it kills 33-50 people in the UK. I am now out of my substance abuse years and dabbled in pretty much everything apart from heroin. The precept to remain non-intoxicated will help to keep a clear and rational state of mind. However, ecstasy taken not on a regular basis is pretty harmless to the neurological system in the brain and would be pretty damn fun.
Drugs are no different to cheeseburgers. When we see a McDonalds as an infant, it gives us great joy. We are curious as to the taste and feeling of a cheeseburger. We are curious as to what sensory rushes it will give us. When we have our first cheeseburger, we convince ourselves that it is indeed great. However, when we overindulge we get fat. Usually, not until we experience the suffering of getting fat, do we realize that the cheeseburgers did not cause happiness, in the end they caused suffering. We can identify the impermanence of the happiness of consuming the cheeseburgers. The impermanence that the cheeseburgers gave us a sense of happiness when we had them, but as soon as they were gone and we eventually feel the urge again, we are attached.
Drugs work the same way. When we are in a vulnerable stage of life we indulge in drugs. It is out of a sense of curiosity and confusion, or for acceptance, rather than rebellion. When we get attached to these drugs, we realize the impact that they have. No longer do they cause the happiness that we relate them to. Now, they are the cause of our suffering.
True, maybe psychedelics have the opportunity to allow you to experience a different form of consciousness. However, most users of these drugs for intellectual purposes use it to "open their minds". Buddhism holds the truthful realization, that drugs are not needed to open your mind. If you claim psychedelics or drugs "changed" your life, this is an ego-centric view and an attachment.
Many of us here, are not monks. Many of us take bits and pieces from here and there to form the knowledge and wisdom as a base of our practice. We must strive to keep, recognize, and apply the basic principles in the Four Noble Truths.
yes @andyrobyn the middle way when it comes to taking ecstasy. I personally burnt myself out taking it almost every weekend for 4 years, me and a mate kept a pill count and I got up to around 970. Did I ever have to go to hospital? No, did I have any health issues because of it, no. Did I have any permanent brain damage no, but did it cause problem with relations such as family and partner at the time, yes.
LSD changed my life in many ways, it brought on more relizations about myself and life than any meditation has ever done put together, but has been said, everything needed for liberation already exists within us all and it is free.
Personal freedom is the answer, and I find it incredibly strange that the "Land of the Free" has the highest incarceration rate in the world, with something like 80% of federal prisoners being imprisoned for crimes that DIDN'T HARM ANYONE ELSE(most drug-related). This "Land of the Free" is responsible for indoctrinating people to be SCARED OF FREEDOM! As soon as you start talking about freedom, people start getting scared. It's ridiculous. No worries, though. REAL change is coming, and it is coming soon.
A few people that accepted personal freedom in relation to this topic:
John Belushi Marilyn Monroe Billie Holiday River Phoenix Jim Morrison ...
etc.
It is quite interesting that the fact that those things were illegal, did not stop them from using them. The idea that it should be legal does not condone the usage of such things. To try and assert that legalize = you should go do drugs, is intellectually dishonest. It simply acknowledges the fact that having them illegal creates more problems than it solves. When the US drug was was started 40 years ago, it was because 3.3% of the population was addicted to drugs. 40 years later, the percentage of the population addicted to drugs is...3.3%... Who was it that said "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result"?
Here is the answer to the US debt and the debt of the other countries in the west. Legalize drugs. You will make heaps of cash on tax, there will be less money spent on policing controlled substances because they are not controlled, and maybe all the big wigs will start taking ecstasy and acid, fall in love with each other and cancel all debts and such things - just an idea
Drugs will continue to be around as long as humans are around
Mind-altering substances have been used by many societies throughout history. The Aryans used something called "soma", which some researchers think was the plant ephedra. Others say they used "magic" mushrooms. But the difference between modern drug use and "traditional" drug use is that in many cases the traditional drug use was restricted to a sacred environment. It was for ceremonial purposes, and therefore controlled. There seemed to be a sense of the power of these substances, and that if used indiscriminately, they could be harmful.
Drugs will continue to be around as long as humans are around
Mind-altering substances have been used by many societies throughout history. The Aryans used something called "soma", which some researchers think was the plant ephedra. Others say they used "magic" mushrooms. But the difference between modern drug use and "traditional" drug use is that in many cases the traditional drug use was restricted to a sacred environment. It was for ceremonial purposes, and therefore controlled. There seemed to be a sense of the power of these substances, and that if used indiscriminately, they could be harmful.
Marijuana and psychedelics hold great spiritual potential, and many people, myself included, see its usage in such a way. The problem is that the society and the government like to act like all "drugs" are just things people use to get fucked up on, addicted to, ruin their lives with, etc. As I said previously, we need to acknowledge that their are different types of, and uses of, drugs.
Marijuana and psychedelics hold great spiritual potential, and many people, myself included, see its usage in such a way. The problem is that the society and the government like to act like all "drugs" are just things people use to get fucked up on, addicted to, ruin their lives with, etc. As I said previously, we need to acknowledge that their are different types of, and uses of, drugs.
I thought we were here to discuss Buddhist principles.
So, I guess you are saying that Buddha was flat our wrong in the basic Precepts.
The precepts are there for a reason, ike people and myself included have said they are guides to help keep one with a state of clarity and away from ignorance. Granted, I have taken every pyschedelic apart from ayuaska and they can induce great spirtual experiences, but that is your choice to do. Those situations can also go wrong as I have witnessed. Nothing can go wrong with a bit of meditation and insight, every tool you need comes with the package.
Do the stats take prescription drug abuse into account, or just illegal drugs? Let's not pretend that soccer moms aren't popping oxys like candy across North America.
Do the stats separate recreational marijuana usage from those using medically? Those are two different issues.
I think the reasons behind drug use, anywhere, vary widely. Peer pressure, job pressure, depression, PTSD, addiction to Rx narcotics, self-medicating for mental illness, growing up in a drug culture, something to rebel against, etc etc.
Comments
We say that very well on this site a couple of days ago. Someone breezed into our forum and did what -- used the principle of free speech...and in doing so, totally disrupted our little society.
I wasnt disturbed by Hubris and nor (if I had a vote) would I vote for him to be excluded - I was greatly heartened by Lincoln's response that his email is public and the door is metaphorically open.
Agree with you on the need for structure - it just seems to me that the present structure and established labels are geared towards economic gain.
I live in the real world. As did Siddhartha/Buddha. I will die in the real world.
I think it was some Native Americans who observed at one point in history that freedom includes the freedom to wisely refrain from indulgence. Freedom comes with responsibility.
P.S. Zero--I don't think vinlyn was referring to Hubris. It was nigelart.
Ah! I wasnt subject to his charms!
Going back to the precepts, they are not laws that somebody is going to punish you for not keeping, but they are guides. You will get punished, but by yourself.
Also as somebody has already said, the word drug is such a broad word to use and it gets thrown around way too much. People who know very little about drugs often consider them to be all evil and sometimes each equally evil, or they only know what they get fed by the government. My mother for example, she would let me smoke weed but when I told her I took LSD and ecstasy, you are a fool and really doing harm tom. Well mother, smoking weed is actually more unhealthy for you as smoking anything is not good, plus there is tobacco in my joints. Also mum, you smoke cigarettes, those legal things, you know, those sticks that kill hundreds of thousands a year in the UK.
Proffesor Nutt from England, my hometown actually, he released an article about substances and their controlled class. This was written after research and he made claims such as ecstasy is safer than horse riding. The whole classing of drugs is really messed up, it makes no sense in mosr cases. If you are interested in Mr Nutt google him, he sunsequently got the sack from the government after releasing his data. He got the sack for releasing actual data which is pure fact... hmm.
Drugs work the same way. When we are in a vulnerable stage of life we indulge in drugs. It is out of a sense of curiosity and confusion, or for acceptance, rather than rebellion. When we get attached to these drugs, we realize the impact that they have. No longer do they cause the happiness that we relate them to. Now, they are the cause of our suffering.
True, maybe psychedelics have the opportunity to allow you to experience a different form of consciousness. However, most users of these drugs for intellectual purposes use it to "open their minds". Buddhism holds the truthful realization, that drugs are not needed to open your mind. If you claim psychedelics or drugs "changed" your life, this is an ego-centric view and an attachment.
Many of us here, are not monks. Many of us take bits and pieces from here and there to form the knowledge and wisdom as a base of our practice. We must strive to keep, recognize, and apply the basic principles in the Four Noble Truths.
LSD changed my life in many ways, it brought on more relizations about myself and life than any meditation has ever done put together, but has been said, everything needed for liberation already exists within us all and it is free.
So, I guess you are saying that Buddha was flat our wrong in the basic Precepts.
Do the stats separate recreational marijuana usage from those using medically? Those are two different issues.
I think the reasons behind drug use, anywhere, vary widely. Peer pressure, job pressure, depression, PTSD, addiction to Rx narcotics, self-medicating for mental illness, growing up in a drug culture, something to rebel against, etc etc.