Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Register
Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Is entertainment a 'bad thing'?

JetsFan366JetsFan366 Explorer
in Buddhism Basics
So, I've begun to consider entertainment a 'bad thing'. I'm not sure that I'm actually right thinking that, but I find myself feeling guilty playing video games or watching a movie lately. I feel like I'm escaping when I could be experiencing.

I'm not wailing or gnashing my teeth or anything. Just sometimes on the train home when I'm playing a game instead of meditating, I feel qualmish. Maybe this is what happens when a Catholic goes Buddhist. :)

Comments

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    The Buddhist way of thinking of these things isn't that they are good or bad, but that actions have consequences. Engaging in entertainment has an impact on our mind and that impact usually gives us immediate satisfaction and pleasure but long term craving and suffering.

    Try giving it up for a week and see how you feel and notice how your mind feels when you reengage and see if you can't notice the suffering of craving involved in entertainment.
    TheEccentricLazy_eyeDaltheJigsawInc88
  • zenmystezenmyste Veteran
    edited June 2013
    #sigh#...

    Bloody hell man... If you wanna play video games then play video games..
    Ur only gonna be here once mate, do whatever u want to do! (Perhaps with consideration for the 5 precepts)

    1. Do not kill
    2. Do not steal
    3. Do not lie
    4. Respect others
    5. Dont take drugs

    Its not hard... And you dont need buddha to tell you this, its pretty much common sense unless you wanna end up behind bars (prison)

    So just do your thing man, and use your common sense!

    EDIT:

    P.s , entertainment is NOT 'bad'!!!
    vinlynDaltheJigsawChe
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited June 2013
    Entertainment is not a bad thing, but you have to find a balance. Your awareness practice forms a mandala extending outwards to the things in your life. When something comes up that is not supportive of awareness you will get a message. Either the entertainment will come to be accepted as cohesive with practice or it will be expelled and quit. Or entertainment will take over (like a hostile takeover in business) and you will lose your practice.

    If entertainment is an unknown you will get a message from the mandala messengers that something is off. I think you need to strike a balance.
    DaltheJigsawJetsFan366
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    Some entertainment just sucks! Some of it's okay. Some of it is great and so it goes. If something hinders you, put it down, modify it or change it. Sometimes we need to go away from the chatter and noise to find a better balance for ourselves. Goes easy, hold things lightly, and don't pile on more concepts of good or bad, nirvana or samsara.
    Jeffrey
  • SabreSabre Veteran
    Bad in a sense that it's not productive for progression on the path, not an investment in long term happiness. The Buddha often spoke in favor of renouncing sense pleasures. But it's not bad like bad karma bad per se. Not bad as in immoral. So instead of bad we could say unhelpful, or unproductive.

    If you can feel happy about it, steering away from these video games and movies can be helpful. But be careful not to over do it. Don't get angry at yourself. Don't think "I'm no good because I don't practice enough". Take it easy always.
    JeffreyInc88
  • JetsFan366JetsFan366 Explorer
    Thanks everyone. I didn't mean 'bad' morally. I guess I just meant something slightly more negative than 'unproductive'. Throughout my life, I've felt an on and off need for 'something to be excited about' as I've come to refer to it. It has been many things throughout my life, a significant other, books, video games, writing, my work, etc. But I feel the emptiness of the hedonistic treatmill, and tend to wonder if I'm just medicating my mortification with boredom with distractions. I do notice that the more I entertain myself, the more I want to be entertained.

    I have a history of some mental health issues - started with pretty terrible OCD when I was about 10, then depression in my late teens and twenties as I tried to address my anxiety. About five years ago I was diagnosed with Adult Attention Deficit Disorder. I share many of the same traits as folks with that diagnosis (always losing things, getting lost, etc) though I'm not sure how useful the diagnosis really is aside from shining some light on attention and how it affects almost everything. When I started practicing mindfulness and insight meditation, I thought I might have stumbled onto my rosetta stone.

    The first time I took Adderall, it was a mind blowing experience. I could see how quickly my mind would flit to different, more interesting, things even while I was involved in mind-heavy work. I'm a computer programmer. I've always been a little different than my peers - they tend to use command line while I tend to use guis. I never could figure out why until that day I took that pill. Guis offer many more visual and compelling cues. I realized that often when I'm working, I'm continually having mini cycles of getting lost and reorienting myself without even knowing it. With a command line interface, that's almost impossible to do. It's like doing math with a pencil and paper vs. on a tablet computer with fancy interfaces.

    I'm not sure if that made sense to anyone, but it lead to a major perspective change. With that and with the insight I've gained from my practice , I've come to believe that the difficulty I have maintaining attention is one of the main components at the base of my anxiety and depression. There are times when I'm able to treat the symptoms, and that treatment is mostly entertainment and keeping a mindful eye on things. But to treat the actual problem, I feel like the practice is the way to go. My problem right now is that I just moved, just had a son, have a three year old daughter and a new job. So, I've been trying to not pressure myself to practice. There are times when I'm so mentally exhausted that playing a video game is the only thing that can get my mind moving again.

    Thanks for reading. Sorry this became a mind dump. I guess I'm looking for a little validation or constructive criticism.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    You are probably doing good. For some people getting through the day is just what they have available to them and you are doing considerably better and have found insight into your AADD. Sounds like a hard road and as long as you are not looking for a 'ideal' future with no stress I think whatever dharma practice you do will be fruitful. If you are looking for a future where you can 'coast' I think that can be frustrating, at least in my experience.

    It sounds like you are using entertainment as a tool to feel a little better. Like I have already said there is a balance. Who do you want to win? Meditation win or entertainment? Or can there be a balance. Already you have to balance family, work, etc.. So you should be able to balance this unless you are divided on view of awareness practice. That would be one self saying "I want peace (or whatever) and want to practice meditation" meanwhile the other side is saying something of wanting all the attention from the awareness (practice) to go somewhere else.
  • Lee82Lee82 Veteran
    I simply found that I stopped enjoying some forms of entertainment as much as I used to. I used to play video games a lot but now can sit here on my own and have no desire to switch my xbox on. I realised that it was not good use of my time and not good for my mind. I watch little tv and only watch films if they are recommended because of the spiritual message they contain. Music is still something I engage with but there are other things I can do at the same time as listening.

    If you're happy without the entertainment then let it go but don't feel that you need to let go because it's something 'bad'. Maybe once your mind develops you will 'grow out of it' like I think I have.
    riverflow
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    There are people who are so obsessed with a particular star or act that it probably is bad. But that's not most people. Most of us see the balance and enjoy a singer or actor, but don't become obsessed and cling to it.
  • maartenmaarten Veteran
    In general I think I learn quite a lot from watching movies. They also help me connect to my emotions.
    I heard a teacher classify things as being "on the path" or "off the path". I found this to be useful. A horror movie for example is almost always "off the path" for me. Same goes for gratuitous violence. In the rare case that I watch such a movie (if it has some attractive power), I try to be be mindful and study the effect it has of pulling me off the path.
    vinlynJeffreykarmablues
  • searching_samsarasearching_samsara Explorer
    maarten said:


    I heard a teacher classify things as being "on the path" or "off the path". I found this to be useful.

    No 'On'
    No 'Off'
    This 'Teacher' wears the blindfold of dogma and earplugs of doctrine
    No 'Path'
    Dualism=Illusion
    Check!

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Wouldn't you like dessert @searching_samsara ? Perhaps there is a path? Just like I am sitting on a chair. As matter of fact and as simple as that?
  • rivercanerivercane Veteran
    twaitsfan said:

    Thanks everyone. I didn't mean 'bad' morally. I guess I just meant something slightly more negative than 'unproductive'. Throughout my life, I've felt an on and off need for 'something to be excited about' as I've come to refer to it. It has been many things throughout my life, a significant other, books, video games, writing, my work, etc. But I feel the emptiness of the hedonistic treatmill, and tend to wonder if I'm just medicating my mortification with boredom with distractions. I do notice that the more I entertain myself, the more I want to be entertained.

    I have a history of some mental health issues - started with pretty terrible OCD when I was about 10, then depression in my late teens and twenties as I tried to address my anxiety. About five years ago I was diagnosed with Adult Attention Deficit Disorder. I share many of the same traits as folks with that diagnosis (always losing things, getting lost, etc) though I'm not sure how useful the diagnosis really is aside from shining some light on attention and how it affects almost everything. When I started practicing mindfulness and insight meditation, I thought I might have stumbled onto my rosetta stone.

    The first time I took Adderall, it was a mind blowing experience. I could see how quickly my mind would flit to different, more interesting, things even while I was involved in mind-heavy work. I'm a computer programmer. I've always been a little different than my peers - they tend to use command line while I tend to use guis. I never could figure out why until that day I took that pill. Guis offer many more visual and compelling cues. I realized that often when I'm working, I'm continually having mini cycles of getting lost and reorienting myself without even knowing it. With a command line interface, that's almost impossible to do. It's like doing math with a pencil and paper vs. on a tablet computer with fancy interfaces.

    I'm not sure if that made sense to anyone, but it lead to a major perspective change. With that and with the insight I've gained from my practice , I've come to believe that the difficulty I have maintaining attention is one of the main components at the base of my anxiety and depression. There are times when I'm able to treat the symptoms, and that treatment is mostly entertainment and keeping a mindful eye on things. But to treat the actual problem, I feel like the practice is the way to go. My problem right now is that I just moved, just had a son, have a three year old daughter and a new job. So, I've been trying to not pressure myself to practice. There are times when I'm so mentally exhausted that playing a video game is the only thing that can get my mind moving again.

    Thanks for reading. Sorry this became a mind dump. I guess I'm looking for a little validation or constructive criticism.

    You bring up some really good and valid points. You mentioned your mortification with boredom and I think that is accurate for most people and I also think that our distractions tend to be morbid. Look at popular movies such as Saw or Scream, or so much of the music that exists today, the nature of which is angry and negative. Or video games, which can be fun and - in the case of more neutral, less violent games such as many of the releases from Nintendo - fairly harmless but so many of the games on the market today are extremely violent and negative.

    I think that games such as Grand Theft Auto actually have a negative impact on society and I really do believe that we accumulate heavy karma by killing other people in video games, even though it is just a digital image. And like you say, the more we entertain ourselves, the more we want to entertain ourselves with movies, TV, and video games. I think that modern entertainment is addictive in nature, compared to more wholesome activities from the past such as reading, playing a musical instrument, or even activities that many young people used to enjoy such as building plastic models. It was more satisfying in nature and didn't feel you with a strong urge for better, more intense sensations.

    Jeffreykarmablues
  • JetsFan366JetsFan366 Explorer
    edited June 2013
    rivercane said:


    You bring up some really good and valid points. You mentioned your mortification with boredom and I think that is accurate for most people and I also think that our distractions tend to be morbid. Look at popular movies such as Saw or Scream, or so much of the music that exists today, the nature of which is angry and negative. Or video games, which can be fun and - in the case of more neutral, less violent games such as many of the releases from Nintendo - fairly harmless but so many of the games on the market today are extremely violent and negative.

    I think that games such as Grand Theft Auto actually have a negative impact on society and I really do believe that we accumulate heavy karma by killing other people in video games, even though it is just a digital image. And like you say, the more we entertain ourselves, the more we want to entertain ourselves with movies, TV, and video games. I think that modern entertainment is addictive in nature, compared to more wholesome activities from the past such as reading, playing a musical instrument, or even activities that many young people used to enjoy such as building plastic models. It was more satisfying in nature and didn't feel you with a strong urge for better, more intense sensations.

    I agree to some extent. I'm not a big GTA fan, and when I play games where you can be either good or evil I can't help being good - lol. But I think that might have more to do with the 'immersability' of a player. For some, running over digital hookers is really little different than jumping on turtles and kicking their shells. If you're not immersed in a game, then I don't think much karma could come of things.

    I also think that the content of a book has as much to do with negative or positive impact as the type of video game. Models and instruments however teach skills like patience and I think their virtue is in that.

    Despite our morbid interests, though, this is one of the least violent times in history, so I'm not really sure there is a correlation.
    Jeffreyrivercane
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    I used to play GTA.
    I used to run and swim all the way to the country. Avoiding cars and other potential violent encounters. My greatest moment came when I found flowers, which I tried to give to a policeman but he pulled a gun on me, so I ran but he chased me . . . probably not thanking me for the flowers . . was karma catching up . . .

    On the Wii, the only 'games' I play are yoga fitness routines. I look at games on the Ipad and know they are addiction. So just can not be bothered with them.
    I prefer silence to music entertainment/distraction.
    My distraction at the moment is films. I watched 'Wrong'.

    Was it wrong? Are our minds entertaining enough?

    You guys are entertainment enough. What happens if you all find silent awareness 'entertaining'?

    Might have to find the world is a game . . . New Game? :wave:
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    I play games, sometimes. Yesterday I picked up Guitar Hero for the first time in like 4 years and played away a rainy afternoon with my kids, we had a blast! I think it just depends on the person. One thing I have realized is that, if something feels like a problem to me, it probably is a problem. Often times I'll go to ask here, or elsewhere online what someone thinks of this or that, only to realize while typing that I already know the answer and just don't want to face it. I don't think entertainment of any sort is inherently unproductive or bad. But if you can't put in a game without playing for hours and hours and forgetting to eat and ya-yaing your spouse without even realize what they said, obviously, that is a problem. Clicking "likes" and commenting on FB can be as much of an addiction as the FB games are. The routines we stick ourselves in are among the worst, sometimes.

    I personally don't agree that we can accrue karma with beings that don't even exist. I think the mindset we can develop in playing violent games and watching movies and listening to music and even participating in relationships and conversations, obviously can have a karmic effect. But killing a being that doesn't even exist in the real world (say, a goblin) doesn't seem to me it can reap karmic results.
    rivercanemaarten
  • PremaSagarPremaSagar Veteran
    edited June 2013
    In my opinion I think entertainment being a good or bad thing is subject to the way it is viewed and treated. It can be a bad thing if you are consumed by it to the point that other aspects of your life are ignored for it's sake. Entertainment can be used to spread knowledge which is a good thing.
  • poptartpoptart Veteran
    It's interesting that you yourself see it as a "bad thing". Perhaps there is a reason you feel that way that needs to be explored? Do you feel you are using it as an avoidance technique? Only you know the answer to that one.
  • searching_samsarasearching_samsara Explorer
    Jeffrey said:

    Wouldn't you like dessert @searching_samsara ? Perhaps there is a path? Just like I am sitting on a chair. As matter of fact and as simple as that?

    No-Thing
    Check!

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    form is emptiness and emptiness is form.
  • karmablueskarmablues Veteran
    In Buddhism there are two sets of training rules for householders, the five precepts and the eight precepts. Whereas the five precepts are more concerned with immoral behaviour which causes harm and suffering to others, the eight precepts contain extra rules regulating conduct that aren't harmful to others but that are meant to be observed by householders who wish to take the meditative practices more seriously. So these extra rules are more concerned with promoting simplicity, self-discipline and renunciation in order to cultivate a state of mind that is conducive for meditative practices. The extra rules are as follows:

    Sixth Precept: I undertake the training rule to refrain from eating at the forbidden time (i.e., after noon).

    Seventh Precept: I undertake the training rule to refrain from dancing, singing, music, going to see entertainments, which are stumbling blocks to wholesomeness, and wearing garlands, using perfumes, and beautifying the body with cosmetics.

    Eighth Precept: I undertake the training rule to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place.

    So we can see that under the seventh precept, the Buddha advises against entertainment (dancing, singing, music and entertaining shows) for those who wish to achieve significant progress with meditation because they are "stumbling blocks to wholesomeness".
    maarten said:

    In general I think I learn quite a lot from watching movies. They also help me connect to my emotions.
    I heard a teacher classify things as being "on the path" or "off the path". I found this to be useful. A horror movie for example is almost always "off the path" for me. Same goes for gratuitous violence. In the rare case that I watch such a movie (if it has some attractive power), I try to be be mindful and study the effect it has of pulling me off the path.


    According to Ñanavara Thera, the commentaries say that the listening to or singing of songs is a breach of the seventh precept, "except with such ballads as contain Dhamma that causes faith to arise as well as arousing weariness with the suffering of our life". He then referred to an example of the story of a monk who heard a slave woman singing about life's troubles. When the monk heard this, he saw the tediousness of suffering and achieved attainments on the Path. He thus concludes that this type of song can be listened to and is not detrimental. By analogy, this exception can be applied to movies or any other form of entertainment that actually "causes faith to arise as well as arousing weariness with the suffering of our life".
    lobsterperson
  • CheChe Veteran
    edited June 2013
    These days entertainment is at our fingertips 24/7 with iPhones and micro video games, thats progress I suppose, but IMHO immersing yourself in a good book is more efficacious than frying your brain duelling with a microchip in a violent video game. I wonder if Buddha was in his prime now,would he be sitting under the Bodhi Tree playing Angry Birds for a bit of down time ;)
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    What if the book you are reading is violent? What if you are reading "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee"? Some things with violence can have value to humanity and to our practice, too. Even some video games have pros to them, they can help develop eye-hand coordination in people who lack it. They recommended it actually for my son when he was young for that reason.

    I think it's probably safe to say that Buddha, if here now, would add a WHOLE lot more things to his list in the 7th precept, including talk radio, tv, most of the internet and maybe even cell phones. That's one area I think Buddhism doesn't always get it right. Where the people taking further the precepts can refrain from music/dancing but if they look at the reasoning for doing so, it seems reasonable to infer that there are things that were not present in Buddha's time that we should refrain from for the same reasons. Do people take it farther? Or do they limit themselves to the concerns Buddha had 2500 years ago?

    karmablues
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    Seventh Precept: I undertake the training rule to refrain from dancing, singing, music, going to see entertainments, which are stumbling blocks to wholesomeness, and wearing garlands, using perfumes, and beautifying the body with cosmetics.
    Wholesomeness is a good plan. Are there any wholesome movies?
    'The Bucket List' maybe?
    'Life Is Beautiful'?
    'Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring'?
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Sea Biscuit is a wholesome movie :)
  • newtechnewtech Veteran
    Entertainment its a good thing, and its the all point of buddhism.
    If u are having fun, u dont have hindrances at the moment (other than your typical craving residue). When u get serious wandering "i should be more ascetic" it when the problem starts...

    karmablues
  • shadowleavershadowleaver Veteran
    Entertainment can definitely be used as an escape from facing our lives and using our time beneficially. (Easy for me to say as last night I spent 3 hours on youtube drowning in the tunes of my younger days...ended up feeling empty and worthless).

    On the other hand, I don't think it's always "bad". Many times a song has helped me get through a bad day. A movie watched with someone, even if silly, can strengthen the bond. Not to mention that one can actually learn something from some forms of entertainment, such as art.

    It's all about balance, finding that middle way. Good luck to us all!
Sign In or Register to comment.