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Buddhist community ponders apparent link between their faith and Navy Yard shooter??
DaltheJigsaw
Mountain View Veteran
In the article they mention that individuals who are mentally ill, are more than likely to find Buddhism appealing. I find that statement a bit harsh? Not sure how to even explain it, as I'm a bit speechless? But at the same time I can see where they are coming from. I would like to discuss this with you guys.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/shooters-interest-in-buddhism-prompts-debate-about-stereotype-of-peaceful-faith/2013/09/18/f0ecd938-1fcf-11e3-94a2-6c66b668ea55_story.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/shooters-interest-in-buddhism-prompts-debate-about-stereotype-of-peaceful-faith/2013/09/18/f0ecd938-1fcf-11e3-94a2-6c66b668ea55_story.html
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But I also found interesting that: "They also spoke superficially about Alexis’ interest in becoming a monk."
And: "Non-Asian Buddhists in America, Jones said, tend to be Theravada, Zen and Tibetan, yet generally they are separate from ethnically Buddhist communities."
And: " the American Buddhist community is the most diverse in the world. But it tends to cluster people by ethnicity, groups of Asians in their own temples and then separate worship spaces for what Strand calls “the upper middle way” — a Buddhism that has tended to appeal to Americans with higher incomes and educations."
You'll not I toughed on these last two points in a post a day or two ago, and several here disagreed that it had any relevance.
Yeah, that's a great point. I believe he was getting help, but not enough. But then the article mentioned of him meditating for hours at end by himself? I find that a bit nerve racking? He needed a teacher, someone who could have guided him?
The 4NT are an invitation to Buddhism for anyone who is suffering because it points to a solution from inside.
I have known a number of people who have been damaged or are mentally ill to turn to JW or get born again, to get help from outside. Sometimes they get relief that way too.
In fact, this case of the shooter illustrates this. He tried Buddhism but ended up rejecting it because of his unbalanced mind that he could not tame and the voices and disconnect got worse. However, do Sanghas overlook mental illness? I don't know. Every Buddhist I've known has been pretty normal for a given definition of normal.
Why the police did not/could not do anything about that at the time disturbs me. Intervention could have prevented this, yet again no one intervened. Our system makes it pretty hard to do so even if someone is recognized as a person in need of help. We've seen it time and time again. It always seems very unfortunate to me that anytime something like this happens, it comes out that the person had severe issues going on that needed attention, and at least some people recognized that, but either they did not do anything to intervene, or the system did not allow an intervention. Forcing someone into a mental health evaluation is akin to calling social services on the parents/guardians of a child you are concerned with. I think people worry they will intrude on someone's life who didn't deserve to be pushed into that system.
Anyhow, meditation in particular (and Buddhism in general) cause one to face themselves, and that includes any "demons" that are present and have been hidden for years. It shouldn't be taken lightly. My sister ended up in therapy after she started meditating, but she recognized she needed it. Should someone other than Aaron Alexis recognized he needed help? He clearly realized what was happened with him was not normal, or okay, but did he truly seek help? I'm not saying he didn't, I just have not read that he has beyond telling cops what was going on.
What can even be done differently? We see this play out at least a few times a year in the US, and we still have no solutions in how to deal with people who in hindsight clearly needed help. Rather than getting people help, we focus on the gun aspect. The gun aspect can be part of it, but it's really a fairly small part of the problem when you considering the suffering these people are going through before they resort to such acts.
2. Yes, Buddhism has handled many storms in 2,500 years. This is barely an April shower.
3. No one in this thread (yet), but we ought to remember the harsh light several in our forum have placed Christianity and Islam. Can we not weather a brief spotlight on our own religion. So, yes, it won't be a bad thing if people (including us) take a more critical appraisal/self-appraisal.
"Do X and Xist sites deal directly enough with the topic of mental illness? And, in fact, might Xism hold a special attraction for people who are mentally ill?"
Well, as volunteer organizations are open to everybody, I'd say Yes to the second of the two separate questions in this hit-or-miss article. Volunteer organizations are in the business of putting up with people that business will not generally tolerate. As for the first part of the question, I know of no one but mental health professionals who "deal directly enough" with the topic of "mental illness." I think most organizations are either in denial about this or intolerant of exhibtions of it —if for no other reason than fear of being put under hot water.
No doubt the Buddhist community in Fort Worth is undergoing a bit of shock and trauma d/t this occurence. They were an object of fascination for a certain fella for a while but that apparently wore off. Maybe the "finger of blame" could be pointed at the town in which he grew up or the city block if he never moved, or whatever? Maybe his classmates for not befriending him? Who knows?
Maybe it is true that religion holds a special fascination for nuts, as most religions are pretty damn crazy. Who knows?
:om:
If think that if you claim that buddhism is a non-violent religion, you should expect a relation between practicing buddhism and being inclined towards non-violence. People on this forum probably believe that non-violence is increased by buddhist practices such as the precepts (training rules) about not harming, not lying, about speaking kindly, the practice of generosity and metta meditation. Are we wrong to believe this?
Maybe if you're seeking truth and clarity?
I know plenty of happy people who are interested in sanatana dharma. As Eknath Easwaran says in his introduction to his translation of The Dhammapada:
"stand[ing] squarely in the tradition of the Upanishads...Vitality, a sublime self-confidence, an emphasis on direct experience in meditation without reference to any outside authority, and a passionate trust in truth, in the oneness of life, and in our human capacity to take our destiny into our own hands --all these are the very spirit of the Upanishads, and no one embodies it better than the Buddha."
If you're already happy with your material life, then look away whenever you see a possible window into a fuller life?
My point was that if you do not perceive any "dukkha" in your life, then you would have no reason to try and eliminate it. I would propose that everyone who is seeking more truth and clarity is doing so because of some kind of dukkha somewhere in their life, which I think is in alignment with the Buddha's teaching on "transcendental dependent origination".
In it the Buddha said "birth is the supporting condition for dukkha, dukkha is the supporting condition for faith"
The faith that Buddhism may be able to help you somehow. To find a fuller life, or more truth or clarity or less suffering from mental illness or whatever. For people who have mental illness, the dukkha is readily apparent, right in front of them a lot! But if you don't perceive any dukkha to begin with, which many people don't. Many people are perfectly happy to live life just pursuing money, power, sex, etc. so they would not be likely to seek out Buddhism because it is perceived that there is nothing lacking. If there is no perception that there is something lacking, AKA dukkha, there would be no reason to look for something fuller. If there is nothing lacking then the supporting condition is not there to give rise to the belief or the faith that Buddhism might help you somehow. Does that make any sense?
:om:
"If there is no perception that there is something lacking, AKA dukkha, there would be no reason to look for something fuller. If there is nothing lacking then the supporting condition is not there to give rise to the belief or the faith that Buddhism might help you somehow. Does that make any sense?"
Of course, you're making plenty of sense, Seeker, whereas the writer of the article does not, as Riverflow ably points out above. But there are always different perspectives to be found.
I believe that this idea that "Buddhism claims the removal of suffering. That is very appealing!" is one smacking of substitutionary atonement. By that I mean it's a practice of laying all your hopes on something really beyond your control and trusting on your salvation. That's usually just a lazy way out, often allows for little questioning, and not in line with the Buddha's advice to his followers to be Lamps unto themselves...
And if it's just substitutionary atonement (for it cannot be a promise), then why Buddhism and why not Christianity, as in the case of the Oslo slaughter?
But that's just my take.
I cannot imagine myself being happy without belonging in some way to the Triple Gem or the Holy Trinity. Firstoff, being drawn powerfully by The Highest Spiritual Potential inherent in all things including my own true nature, Then the Teaching, and then the Communion of the Saints living and dead. It's the arrow in me pointing at once both inward and outward that counts, not just the cessation of all sorrow. The latter is not a promise but just a remote destination on a roadmap. But it's the journey there where the true adventure and glory lies.
:om:
Any of you floated off the ground? Anyone got a choir of red and green Tara's singing your praise? I don't follow that. Most of us grew up with David Carradine being the most 'Buddhist' moments in our lives. As a kid, it was a cool show, a Buddhist Monk who could take on the wild west, but I always knew it was a TV show, and I had a fairly well formed opinion that most Buddhist Monks were not trained in well-timed stunts in front of cameras.
"Buddhism is particularly appealing to “mentally unbalanced people seeking to right the ship of their lives, to self-medicate, to curb their impulses,” said Clark Strand, a contributing editor to the Buddhist publication Tricycle magazine and a former Zen monk." Really? So is Clark Strand mentally unbalanced? Seriously, one of the editors of a Buddhist fluff publication is basically saying most of his readers are off in the head.
Do we have to give any answer for a person who stopped regularly attending temple almost 2 years ago. He flourished for a year or had the semblance of it taking hold and it stopped. He had a gold Buddha, what does that mean really? Madonna used to wear crosses all the time, was she a fan of Billy Graham? Was it anything more than a prop? It obviously didn't do anything more than most statues do, they sit and that is it. This man carried a gun with him and drank beer, fine, so do a great deal of Americans, that doesn't mean they have any problems.
All of these traits do not mean that Buddhism is tied to someone with mental issues. Are there Buddhists who have mental issues? Certainly, just as Christians, Muslims, Jews, Taoists, etc... can have mental problems that require help. And none of their places of worship are typically the best place to seek that help. This is a tragedy, was there more that could have been done to help this young man, certainly, there almost always is more in circumstances like these and far too often, they are too late. There is a report where the Navy failed to follow up on a warning about this person last month, a fairly serious warning of mental instability.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/18/navy-yard-shooting-aaron-alexis/2832451/
The Buddhist temple didn't follow up, the above report says the Navy didn't follow up. In the end, who knows what was going through this young man's mind, only him. Sometimes, you can't place blame. The child shooter who killed so many school children, people look for answers and with death, there often are none forthcoming.
I just really wonder if this person had been a Christian or a Jew if we would have heard statements like "This tragedy has triggered the beginning of the conversation that Christians/Jews are human beings too with human flaws" from some young laity Christian Minister or Jewish Priest. Would you expect to read from one of the editors of Christianity Today or The Jewish Magazine, the comment "Christianity/Judaism is particularly appealing to mentally unbalanced people seeking to right the ship of their lives, to self-medicate, to curb their impulses.” All Faiths have issues, albeit not many of them have people willing to stand up and say, look at us crackpots.
Yes, all religions have issues...and YES, that includes Buddhists.
Why all the angst? Jeepers. Me thinks thou dost protest too much.
Exactly what I stated, all religions have issues. You add "and YES, that includes Buddhists." Yawn..I believe my first comment covered that as well as this one "Are there Buddhists who have mental issues? Certainly, just as Christians, Muslims, Jews, Taoists, etc... can have mental problems that require help."
Jeepers, ? Please, me thinks thou dost protesteth to just protesteth and challengenth someone else too much. Albeit, the use of the word angst was a nice touch, classy.
Addendum: Sorry about another comment I struck out Vinlyn, I mis-quoted you, and my apologies, but I think you are still classy and I am obviously needing to better read quotes.
I suppose I protest too much as you say because I am constantly bombarded by people at work with how bad Buddhism is and I do not exaggerate how hard the pressing is. I have heard this article today, in numerous forms. I would say I project that frustration in other areas. My intent was not to be carried overboard.
Name: Hermitwin
Gender: male
Religion: Buddhism/Mentally ill
Ambition: Mass shooting
I probably don't succeed, but I often try to bring balance to a setting. For example, I happen to be from the town in western NYS where Joseph Smith started Mormonism. One day at my school in Virginia, one of my secretaries, who was a born again Christian, brought up that topic, and ultimately said, "Well, if the Golden Plates were real they could show them to us. Since they can't, clearly they never existed." My response was, "Can you show me the stone with the Ten Commandments?" And of course the response was, "That's different."
Right now, this topic is news. And I think it's important that we be aware of news that relates to Buddhism...whether it's this senseless slaughter or monks acting against Buddhist teachings, etc. Which is why I started the other thread. To be aware. To remind those who condemn Muslims and Christians regarding certain acts, that Buddhism and Buddhists are not immune from the same temptations and degradations that affect other religious people. Only when we understand that, can we have true compassion.
Sadly some Buddhist do.
I can't consider him Buddhist but that hardly matters. He was a fellow human that lived in fear and died in fear.
@vinlyn; I can have compassion for the people while at the same time condemn the holy books calling for violence.
Buddhism has no such battle cries but yes, people are people.
Anyhow, overall I agree that the tone in the country questions and investigates Christianity quite a lot. But it's pretty rare that when it comes to crimes, Christianity is blamed for contributing to the crimes, while other religions are.
http://www.godhatesfags.com/schedule.html
One of the more bitter and outrageous examples albeit but it doesn't always get much better. Catholic priests and the pedophile scandal, while not a witness decision, does present a witness through deliberate decisions made by some members of their priesthood. The pain and hurt is real and people watch it.
The over-zealous Christian who places 'Chick' publications and tracks in bathrooms, so while taking a bladder break you get to see things such as this:
http://www.chick.com/catalog/tractCustombykeyword.asp?subject=Buddhism
I have actually had this one placed in my chair at work as well, so far 14 total have been delivered, this one also a favorite of a 'Christian' at work:
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1080/1080_01.asp
What about the Christians who picket the abortion clinics, the houses of ill repute, the liquor stores. We have it all here in the South, they make the news and they like it from what I can tell. They are witnessing at most of these events and they want the microscope on them.
The Jim and Tammy Baker's of the charismatic scene, they haven't all disappeared. On TV every Sunday asking for that money while living in luxury.
I do try to not focus on it but it is there constantly. People see and experience these things and it can leave a bad taste in them and it sticks as it is being repeated. It is the delivery that garners the attention and some do love the attention. As long as this continues, there will be avenues that are more than happy to turn the spotlight on as well.
That cartoon...the stupidity....so...profound......
Using cartoons... That's just pure pure evil!
I have ideas as to who it might be, but with no proof, and honestly I would be making an educated guess at best. I hear apologies for the trouble but it is basically shrugged off. To the HR department, it is not causing any great harm, just someone being over-zealous occasionally in placing a tract in my chair or on my desk. One of the HR people even said one day, 'Well, they are just worried about your soul." It is tolerated and I need a job, not had much luck finding anything better so what do you do?
No real harm in it. Maybe accepting them gracefully makes merit for you too.