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We wouldn't label our children Republicans, Democrats, Liberals, Tories or Labour, Arsenal supporters or New York Giant fans....
'Instilling Buddhist morals or values' is a misnomer. What you're doing is instilling morals and values. Full stop/period. Buddhism has nothing to do with raising a child well. You don't raise a child the Buddhist way. You raise them the right way. No God, no indoctrination, no religious direction. Just good, plain ol' common sense.
Give me one good bit of advice, counsel, direction or instruction that is uniquely Buddhist, and that could not be applied simply as a moral, beneficial, valuable guidance.
At the same time I would say meditation is a life skill; it doesn't have to be Buddhist meditation.
I wish my parents had taught me meditation. Imagine how I might be more proficient.
But it should be like learning piano. If they don't take to meditation then don't get upset at them, because they are making their choices even if you are sad that they won't benefit from meditation.
And I think you should share your beliefs not as an indoctrination. So say you believe in non-harming and not lying for example. You could share the four noble truths when they are older. I don't know kids so I don't know when that would be.
Exactly. The primary issue is the coercion...the nature of the coercion is secondary. I fear that anyone who attempts to install Buddhism in modern teens will rue the day.
Really? PLease explain how you think I will regret this? Install? Nah...I have just exposed her...Her wanting more..anyway.. please answer my above question...
Oh......maybe she's not 'modern'...( no cell phones, couldn't date until 17, supervised internet, one TV in the house)...is that what you mean?
1
matthewmartinAmateur BodhisattvaSuburbs of Mt MeruVeteran
edited January 2014
@vinlyn re: parents "instilling" (I get that force has a negative connotation, not sure about instill)
"It found that when it comes to religion, parents are the most important influence. The report argues that institutional religion now has a 'half-life' of one generation. In other words:
two non-religious parents successfully pass on their lack of faith; two religious parents have roughly a 50-50 chance of passing on their beliefs; one religious parent does only half as well as two together. "
Like I said in my original post-- on this forum, the assumption is it is mostly "new buddhists" for whom parenting was an ineffective way to spread a religion. But the numbers show that parent's religion matters more than the pessimists might think-- its a long way from being perverse (i.e. children raised to be religion X will be filled with rage, hate and anger and be anything but religion X). If someone is religion X despite their parents good intentioned efforts, that implies that those efforts were actually discouraging their children to follow religion X.
re: comments on teenagers Teenagers biologically are adults, so that would fall in the same category as proselytization-- converting adults to a new religion-- a good topic for another thread. I'm talking about kids age 0 to 12, when, may I meekly advance, that kids really do seem to copy their parents/do what their parents promote.
No one in my family influenced me. They were either Christian atheist or just mad.
So you're saying it's genetic?
3
DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
We wouldn't label our children Republicans, Democrats, Liberals, Tories or Labour, Arsenal supporters or New York Giant fans....
'Instilling Buddhist morals or values' is a misnomer. What you're doing is instilling morals and values. Full stop/period. Buddhism has nothing to do with raising a child well. You don't raise a child the Buddhist way. You raise them the right way. No God, no indoctrination, no religious direction. Just good, plain ol' common sense.
Give me one good bit of advice, counsel, direction or instruction that is uniquely Buddhist, and that could not be applied simply as a moral, beneficial, valuable guidance.
Very good point. I guess my objection is with the beliefs that sometimes follow. I won't lie to my daughter and pretend I know the truth to things I simply don't. I can tell her what makes sense to me, but I'll be more interested in what makes sense to her.
Buddhism in general doesn't seem to have much to say about family life. I have read rules about the earliest age for ordination & how some countries used monestaries as a place for farmer peasants to unload extra kids or to put orphans (a practice of mixed merits).
I imagine on a forum of Buddhists who are now a different religion than what they were (or weren't) raised in might be skeptical that you can raise a child to have a religion since obviously that didn't work for them. I'm somewhat more optimistic since amongst "old buddhists" there are a billion plus who are Buddhists in part because their parents were Buddhists.
Do anyone here have any opinions on the efficacy of raising kids to be Buddhist, what the orthodox traditions have to say about the matter and if Buddhism has anything that parallels baptism, catechism and confirmation (typical rites and practices for kids in other religions)?
I remember an Australian monk, in one of his sermons, said that children should be allowed to choose his own religion. He should be exposed to all the religions, he said but I doubt it's a good idea. A child should have a right to choose but if young minds are easily influenced and in this world, you get to see children being taught hatred and using guns as they are prepared for wars. I think children should be taught the basis of Buddhism, to be able to think and stand on his own two feet. The five precepts should be taught too for is not a child a layman?
0
matthewmartinAmateur BodhisattvaSuburbs of Mt MeruVeteran
I remember an Australian monk, in one of his sermons, said that children should be allowed to choose his own religion. He should be exposed to all the religions, he said but I doubt it's a good idea.
I love encyclopedic knowledge-- I think kids should know about Bahai and Zoroastrianism and Asatru and Scientology just like they should know the states and Capitals of Europe. I would feel dishonest to convey knowledge without some normative guides about how effective those religions are in achieving their own goals or in achieving Buddhist goals.
Yes, I can see how teaching nothing what so ever (sort of the let them figure it out with out parental corruption) would leave them open to a potentially nasty default of greed, hate and delusion.
Yes, kids would definitely be a sort of lay buddhist or potential lay Buddhist. Childhood ordination is just a bucket of problems (and sometimes benefits), especially in countries-- nepal- without a working orphanage system or any other system to keep kids from being the sort of problem that encourages parents to sell them into slavery. A whole universe of experience away from my situation of being an affluent white collar worker in the US.
Was the OP about whether to raise your children Buddhist or not....sorry...I took over...I assumed that most parents teach their children their practice....hopefully expose them to others...and then we see where the chips fall. I was getting excited to get into sharing nurture techniques.....sounds like more of a nature vs. nurture kind of discussion going on....hahahaha
0
matthewmartinAmateur BodhisattvaSuburbs of Mt MeruVeteran
Was the OP about whether to raise your children Buddhist
The question was how--as in what works-- I've already made up my mind to try, I'm still skeptical of the idea that raising children as Buddhist is somehow futile or perverse.
I should post a question on how best to spread the Dharma-- by this thread, I would guess that 45th minor precept of the Brahma net suttra (45. Failure to Teach Sentient Beings) would be extremely controversial.
'What is God? compares different religions -- Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism -- and their holy books, looks at misunderstandings and arguments among people of different religions, and talks about praying as well as feeling connected to everything in the world.'
Buddhism in general doesn't seem to have much to say about family life. I have read rules about the earliest age for ordination & how some countries used monestaries as a place for farmer peasants to unload extra kids or to put orphans (a practice of mixed merits).
I imagine on a forum of Buddhists who are now a different religion than what they were (or weren't) raised in might be skeptical that you can raise a child to have a religion since obviously that didn't work for them. I'm somewhat more optimistic since amongst "old buddhists" there are a billion plus who are Buddhists in part because their parents were Buddhists.
Do anyone here have any opinions on the efficacy of raising kids to be Buddhist, what the orthodox traditions have to say about the matter and if Buddhism has anything that parallels baptism, catechism and confirmation (typical rites and practices for kids in other religions)?
Namaste,
I'm raising my daughter to heed the 4 Noble Truths and to try to adhere the best she can to the Noble Eightfold Path.
As she has grown, it has become quite clear to me that she is my teacher. And that is a glorious thing to experience.
I remember an Australian monk, in one of his sermons, said that children should be allowed to choose his own religion. He should be exposed to all the religions, he said but I doubt it's a good idea. A child should have a right to choose but if young minds are easily influenced and in this world, you get to see children being taught hatred and using guns as they are prepared for wars. I think children should be taught the basis of Buddhism, to be able to think and stand on his own two feet. The five precepts should be taught too for is not a child a layman?
I would hazard a guess that this is already happening. Children as suicide bombers......
@matthewmartin@Federica... as an add on to my earlier comment and after reading all the above, especially Federica's comment re common sense values, I've been meaning to paint a poem on my outside wall I was going to do the one below, as I love the poem and my house is called 'Clunbury'...
But I think the Mettha sutra would be lovely (and growing up with the words may give them good dirction or curiousity)
...maybe I'll go mad and do both!!
A. E. Housman (1859–1936). A Shropshire Lad. 1896.
L. In valleys of springs of rivers
Clunton and Clunbury, Clungunford and Clun, Are the quietest places Under the sun.
IN valleys of springs of rivers, By Ony and Teme and Clun, The country for easy livers, The quietest under the sun,
We still had sorrows to lighten, One could not be always glad, And lads knew trouble at Knighton When I was a Knighton lad.
By bridges that Thames runs under, In London, the town built ill, ’Tis sure small matter for wonder If sorrow is with one still.
And if as a lad grows older The troubles he bears are more, He carries his griefs on a shoulder That handselled them long before.
Where shall one halt to deliver This luggage I ’d lief set down? Not Thames, not Teme is the river, Nor London nor Knighton the town:
’Tis a long way further than Knighton, A quieter place than Clun, Where doomsday may thunder and lighten And little ’twill matter to one.
Comments
I wish my parents had taught me meditation. Imagine how I might be more proficient.
But it should be like learning piano. If they don't take to meditation then don't get upset at them, because they are making their choices even if you are sad that they won't benefit from meditation.
And I think you should share your beliefs not as an indoctrination. So say you believe in non-harming and not lying for example. You could share the four noble truths when they are older. I don't know kids so I don't know when that would be.
Install? Nah...I have just exposed her...Her wanting more..anyway..
please answer my above question...
Oh......maybe she's not 'modern'...( no cell phones, couldn't date until
17, supervised internet, one TV in the house)...is that what you mean?
I found a quote from a study that might be relevant Like I said in my original post-- on this forum, the assumption is it is mostly "new buddhists" for whom parenting was an ineffective way to spread a religion. But the numbers show that parent's religion matters more than the pessimists might think-- its a long way from being perverse (i.e. children raised to be religion X will be filled with rage, hate and anger and be anything but religion X). If someone is religion X despite their parents good intentioned efforts, that implies that those efforts were actually discouraging their children to follow religion X.
re: comments on teenagers
Teenagers biologically are adults, so that would fall in the same category as proselytization-- converting adults to a new religion-- a good topic for another thread. I'm talking about kids age 0 to 12, when, may I meekly advance, that kids really do seem to copy their parents/do what their parents promote.
Yes, I can see how teaching nothing what so ever (sort of the let them figure it out with out parental corruption) would leave them open to a potentially nasty default of greed, hate and delusion.
Yes, kids would definitely be a sort of lay buddhist or potential lay Buddhist. Childhood ordination is just a bucket of problems (and sometimes benefits), especially in countries-- nepal- without a working orphanage system or any other system to keep kids from being the sort of problem that encourages parents to sell them into slavery. A whole universe of experience away from my situation of being an affluent white collar worker in the US.
not....sorry...I took over...I assumed that most parents teach their
children their practice....hopefully expose them to others...and then
we see where the chips fall. I was getting excited to get into sharing
nurture techniques.....sounds like more of a nature vs. nurture kind
of discussion going on....hahahaha
I should post a question on how best to spread the Dharma-- by this thread, I would guess that 45th minor precept of the Brahma net suttra (45. Failure to Teach Sentient Beings) would be extremely controversial.
BTW...'Moody Cow Meditates' is my fav of the children's
books....
edit... http://www.amazon.com/Moody-Cow-Meditates-Kerry-MacLean/dp/086171573X
'What is God?'
http://www.amazon.com/What-Is-God-Etan-Boritzer/dp/0920668887
'What is God? compares different religions -- Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism -- and their holy books, looks at misunderstandings and arguments among people of different religions, and talks about praying as well as feeling connected to everything in the world.'
I'm raising my daughter to heed the 4 Noble Truths and to try to adhere the best she can to the Noble Eightfold Path.
As she has grown, it has become quite clear to me that she is my teacher. And that is a glorious thing to experience.
In metta,
Raven
But I think the Mettha sutra would be lovely (and growing up with the words may give them good dirction or curiousity)
...maybe I'll go mad and do both!!
A. E. Housman (1859–1936). A Shropshire Lad. 1896.
L. In valleys of springs of rivers
Clunton and Clunbury,
Clungunford and Clun,
Are the quietest places
Under the sun.
IN valleys of springs of rivers,
By Ony and Teme and Clun,
The country for easy livers,
The quietest under the sun,
We still had sorrows to lighten,
One could not be always glad,
And lads knew trouble at Knighton
When I was a Knighton lad.
By bridges that Thames runs under,
In London, the town built ill,
’Tis sure small matter for wonder
If sorrow is with one still.
And if as a lad grows older
The troubles he bears are more,
He carries his griefs on a shoulder
That handselled them long before.
Where shall one halt to deliver
This luggage I ’d lief set down?
Not Thames, not Teme is the river,
Nor London nor Knighton the town:
’Tis a long way further than Knighton,
A quieter place than Clun,
Where doomsday may thunder and lighten
And little ’twill matter to one.