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Hi, in Pali-Kanon Maro Dusi, the devil, is mentioned. G.Buddho made a contract with him,Jesus sent him away. Every far enough advanced pilgrim will meet Maro Dusi. If you`ll give him the right answer you can proceed on the path.
anando
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matthewmartinAmateur BodhisattvaSuburbs of Mt MeruVeteran
@matthewmartin, could you say more about the sects of Buddhism that have Bodhisattvas? You mentioned that the Bodhisattvas are purely devotional. Where did you get that information?
Re: sects where Bodhisattvas matter-- pretty much most Mahayana, although they appear to have snuck into Therevada at various points of history (i.e. references to Amida Buddha long before Mahayana was a large, distinct thing). I don't think this is all that controversial.
re: Bodhisattvas are "purely" devotional Not what I said, but Amidaism and Pure Land Buddhism is devotional Buddhism (and by devotional, I mean a system of religion where pray to a super natural being to do something for you so you will have a better place to be after death-- good works and merit are de-emphasized in favor of being thankful for an all powerful god-like beings ability to save you from whatever). Except for Pure Land apologists, PL is as about as stereotypical devotionalism as you can find. To quibble is to quibble over what devotionalism is or if Pure Land is incredibly devotional system or just an extremely devotional system. And it is worth pointing out that Chan (Chinese Zen) is a hybrid system- a do-it-yourself system of meditation, but also Amidaism just incase you fail to reach enlightenment on your own.
Rubbing the knee of the medicine buddha, then rubbing your knee and expecting the arthritis to go away would be devotional-- small acts and requests to a supernatural being for supernatural this-worldly benefits.
Some non-devotional uses of Bodhisattvas-- the visualization & imagining you are Kannon or Manjusri in great detail-- can't say I grok it, I haven't tried it myself, but it seem plausible that it could result in some benefit., I certainly can imagine how imagining you are a Buddha could inspire bodhi-chitta (the aspiration to be a Buddha)-- which again is sort of a role-model thing.
And the use that I like, which is using them as role models-- Ksitigarbha's (Jizo Bosatsu) goal to empty out the hell realms is a worthy goal, regardless to if Ksitigarbha is literally real or if the hell realms themselves are literally real. It's a heroic, compassionate goal. And back to the topic-- Mara is a nicely packaged message of "what not to do".
I don't really know much about Satan except from movies, as someone very evil and sinister. What is this Satan to you and do buddhists believe in the existence of Satan?
I don't really know much about Satan except from movies, as someone very evil and sinister. What is this Satan to you and do buddhists believe in the existence of Satan?
Yes, absolutely, the name is Mara.
Mara looks bad ass!! Does he have a following like Satan has Satanist because if that was your leader you wouldn't get messed with!!
I don't really know much about Satan except from movies, as someone very evil and sinister. What is this Satan to you and do buddhists believe in the existence of Satan?
Yes, absolutely, the name is Mara.
Mara seems to have a six pack, lol.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I would also suggest dental work.....
@betaboy, what on earth do you mean by this comment?
I agree @federica - Having spent a couple of days in the hell realm this is just a demonic goofy in comparison!
Mara however is so much more deceptive! BTW The Patagonian Mara is now on the near threatened list and dwells mainly in Argentina. I expect the next enlightened person is going to come from that neck of the woods, oops didn't the current pope, a Jesuit come from there? I like Jesuits - my English teacher was one, and a friend at university's father was also one do you know any Jesuits? They wear grey/brown robes if I remember rightly.
I personally don't apply any deities or realms to anything but states of mind, and I felt the same when I was being raised Christian, too. I personally don't believe in them as actual beings by any means, or actual places. Everything is in our minds. The whole kit and caboodle. Or kittencaboodle!
No. The closest thing to "Satan" in Buddhism is Mara.
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
For me it would depend on what you mean by believe.
I quess I am a Buddhist and Satan never arises as a concept unless someone specifically asks me about it,
@anataman States of mind are ...what? what ever just exists within the mind... which could be.... anything???
Buddhists seem to believe in what ever they want to so I guess the interesting qualifier is what can a Buddhist believe in that no longer qualifys him/her from being a Buddhist.
I don't think so much it is a Buddhist can believe whatever they want, end of story. I think what we see here is a conglomeration of people at different levels, different places on the same or a similar path led by different teachers in person, online, in books. Not to mention some people who are very new (I still am quite new, I've only really been practicing for a few years but I'm very open to my views changing...they always do) and some have practiced with world-renowned teachers for many years. When I say what I think or what I believe, it's never, ever meant to be a view of what all Buddhists do, or should do. I know Buddhists within my Sangha, who all have the same teacher, who vary widely on some things. But it certainly doesn't make them not Buddhists anymore.
When I mentioned I think Satan and Hell and so on are states of mind it was meant to be more a comparison to people who think of them more literally. I'm not saying that way is wrong, if someone really knew the answer then we wouldn't have the variation, lol. I don't believe when we die we go to some other plane of existence, some other actual physical place to spend years upon years as ghosts or gods. I didn't believe when I was very young that when you die, you float on up to heave and hang out with Jesus who can tell you all the hairs on your head and get hugs from your long-dead relatives. It just didn't work for me. It works for others, which is fine, too. Anyhow, that's what I meant by my comment.
What was that film where Al Pacino was the devil and said "God is an absentee landlord"? I liked that one. It also had that bloke from the Matrix, which I found a bit confusing to begin with.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Satan is a hysterical, or do I mean historical, myth. I like myths as much as any one! But clinging to the myth is just that clinging. Sure I can believe another persons satanic view. But how does that help me. This is just the same question of whether buddhists believe in god, or in pickled herrings. I believe in pickled herrings because they exist and I can prove it yum yum... God and Satan, on the other hand need to manifest in some way, then I'll take a nice juicy bite out of them and decide which tastes better - good or evil.
Perhaps I should review the term Theodicy, it had just popped up on my mac dictionary screensaver when I logged onto my computer, with something about good and evil in it. Maybe its a sign from the devil in me.
Hi, the´s a lot of speculation and imagination about Maro Duso. G.Buddho called him the "Wicked one". Gotamo Buddho even made a contract with him, so did Faust in J.W. Goethe. Jesus sent him away.This is not only a speculation of mine, it´s my own es- perience with him. He asked me a question and i gave him a proper answer. That was all. No devotion, no contract.
anando
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
@anando, if I knew what on EARTH you were talking about, I'd reply..... :rolleyes:
This is not only a speculation of mine, it´s my own es- perience with him. He asked me a question and i gave him a proper answer. That was all. No devotion, no contract.
No? Really? Well, well, well . . . Who else ya bin chatting wid?
@Citta said:
The Buddhist equivalent is Mara, whose role is to prevent Enlightenment ... There are Buddhists who take his existence literally.. And others who see him as the personification of inertia and egoic processes. And every shade of opinion in between.
Mara is definitely not a fallen angel. What is Mara exactly? Never mind wings - does he have a face?
Comments
in Pali-Kanon Maro Dusi, the devil, is mentioned. G.Buddho made a contract with him,Jesus sent him away. Every far enough advanced pilgrim will meet Maro Dusi.
If you`ll give him the right answer you can proceed on the path.
anando
re: Bodhisattvas are "purely" devotional
Not what I said, but Amidaism and Pure Land Buddhism is devotional Buddhism (and by devotional, I mean a system of religion where pray to a super natural being to do something for you so you will have a better place to be after death-- good works and merit are de-emphasized in favor of being thankful for an all powerful god-like beings ability to save you from whatever). Except for Pure Land apologists, PL is as about as stereotypical devotionalism as you can find. To quibble is to quibble over what devotionalism is or if Pure Land is incredibly devotional system or just an extremely devotional system. And it is worth pointing out that Chan (Chinese Zen) is a hybrid system- a do-it-yourself system of meditation, but also Amidaism just incase you fail to reach enlightenment on your own.
Rubbing the knee of the medicine buddha, then rubbing your knee and expecting the arthritis to go away would be devotional-- small acts and requests to a supernatural being for supernatural this-worldly benefits.
Some non-devotional uses of Bodhisattvas-- the visualization & imagining you are Kannon or Manjusri in great detail-- can't say I grok it, I haven't tried it myself, but it seem plausible that it could result in some benefit., I certainly can imagine how imagining you are a Buddha could inspire bodhi-chitta (the aspiration to be a Buddha)-- which again is sort of a role-model thing.
And the use that I like, which is using them as role models-- Ksitigarbha's (Jizo Bosatsu) goal to empty out the hell realms is a worthy goal, regardless to if Ksitigarbha is literally real or if the hell realms themselves are literally real. It's a heroic, compassionate goal. And back to the topic-- Mara is a nicely packaged message of "what not to do".
Please visit the unbelievers and tell them you do or don't exist ( I leave the infernal choice to your unholy choice )
Your obedient servant and butt kisser
Crusty S Lobster aka Princess Daath Lobster (Sith Name)
:rarr:
and a Sod too
Satan is empty
Mind is fishy, swimming with sharks and angels
and my little pony delusions . . .
Are you still being played?
Does he have a following like Satan has Satanist because if that was your leader you wouldn't get messed with!!
@betaboy, what on earth do you mean by this comment?
Mara however is so much more deceptive! BTW The Patagonian Mara is now on the near threatened list and dwells mainly in Argentina. I expect the next enlightened person is going to come from that neck of the woods, oops didn't the current pope, a Jesuit come from there? I like Jesuits - my English teacher was one, and a friend at university's father was also one do you know any Jesuits? They wear grey/brown robes if I remember rightly.
'it's a pun btw With Jesus in it. Jesuits
Sorry just being goofy
Mettha
Bless You, Kit & Kaboodle @karasti
Satan and Mara... Close enough.
@anataman
States of mind are ...what?
what ever just exists within the mind...
which could be.... anything???
Buddhists seem to believe in what ever they want to so I guess the interesting qualifier is what can a Buddhist believe in that no longer qualifys him/her from being a Buddhist.
When I mentioned I think Satan and Hell and so on are states of mind it was meant to be more a comparison to people who think of them more literally. I'm not saying that way is wrong, if someone really knew the answer then we wouldn't have the variation, lol. I don't believe when we die we go to some other plane of existence, some other actual physical place to spend years upon years as ghosts or gods. I didn't believe when I was very young that when you die, you float on up to heave and hang out with Jesus who can tell you all the hairs on your head and get hugs from your long-dead relatives. It just didn't work for me. It works for others, which is fine, too. Anyhow, that's what I meant by my comment.
It also had that bloke from the Matrix, which I found a bit confusing to begin with.
talk about a completely vague post - !!
talk about a completely vague post - !!
Sorry, I couldn't be bothered to google it earlier.
Here it is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil's_Advocate_(1997_film)
Nope.
never seen it.
married to him though, I think.....
Satan is a hysterical, or do I mean historical, myth. I like myths as much as any one! But clinging to the myth is just that clinging. Sure I can believe another persons satanic view. But how does that help me. This is just the same question of whether buddhists believe in god, or in pickled herrings. I believe in pickled herrings because they exist and I can prove it yum yum... God and Satan, on the other hand need to manifest in some way, then I'll take a nice juicy bite out of them and decide which tastes better - good or evil.
Perhaps I should review the term Theodicy, it had just popped up on my mac dictionary screensaver when I logged onto my computer, with something about good and evil in it. Maybe its a sign from the devil in me.
the´s a lot of speculation and imagination about Maro Duso. G.Buddho called him the
"Wicked one". Gotamo Buddho even made a contract with him, so did Faust in J.W. Goethe. Jesus sent him away.This is not only a speculation of mine, it´s my own es-
perience with him. He asked me a question and i gave him a proper answer.
That was all. No devotion, no contract.
anando
colon U/C D =
colon close bracket =
Who else ya bin chatting wid?
Reality v 'que?'
Mara is definitely not a fallen angel. What is Mara exactly? Never mind wings - does he have a face?
I believe Satan is very misunderstood. I believe in him, yes.
I just don't let the words have power over me.
Satan does exists then!
In fact, he is here in the 21st century!
http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=261822:the-devil-is-here-in-the-21st-century&Itemid=2&tmpl=component&print=1#.U1yk9PldWuo