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@DharmaMcBum - I was mainly referring to the tradition practiced in SE Asia where children are often sent to temples and are involved to some extent in the monastic community, sometimes for life (and become full monks) or disrobe and return to lay life.
And @Jayantha, that's exactly what I meant! Thanks for elaborating.
I also think that for those of us who haven't grown up with a certain faith tradition (in the West, it may be Hinduism or Buddhism; the East, possibly Christianity), "converting" and even ordaining in that "foreign" tradition speaks to the depth of faith that that individual has.
My main two bitches about laity and ordination and Buddhist hypocrisy are...
I can't tell you how many monks I've known who speak of spiritual equality out of one side of their mouth all the while elevating the ordained path out of the other side. & an equal amount of layfolk listening and imagining that ordination will somehow make their own koans an easier meal to digest.
Monks encouraging layfolk to ordain is as ridiculous as layfolk encouraging monks to return to laylife. The real practice is only here, in this moment, in our heart/mind, and is best left to the practice to point the way that's best for each individual..
I don't want to be a monk. I know how monks live and while it's not "bad", it's still not a lifestyle I want to lead. I'm way too selfish and am quite attached to my carnal needs as well as materialistic tendencies.
On top of that I don't really need to be a monk to practice the dharma.
If I don't have a pressing need for robes and don't see myself as cut out to take them, I have no desire to waste my time.
If I was to become a monk I would like to be just like Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche. I want to drink good scotch, smoke kind bud, and screw my brains loose with a lot of different women .................. and be the most realized MF'er in the monastery. OM BWA HA HA HO SVAHA
One does not have to be a Budddhist too to practise Dharma. Just a human. And it is not selfish at all to want to live your own life.
I would consider being a monk after I've learned more about Buddhism. To me, it seems that just following the Eightfold Path in the modern age (especially for an 18 year old in the United States) is very difficult. We live in a time where people are obsessed with worldly objects and desires, and with the invention of technology I'd say finding time to meditate and clear your mind is much more difficult than in Buddha's time.
Becoming a monk could allow you to not have to worry about making money to support yourself, paying the car payment, going to that meeting on time, etc. I feel like I could really focus on my meditation and studies. But I'm young and have a lot of time to contemplate.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited February 2014
Every time I see the thread title I think Frank Sinatra - sorry, but old loves die hard!!
It seems that people become what they already are. I think the people who successfully become monks and nuns do it because monks and nuns are what they are. They don't *become* monks and nuns, aside from going through the actual motions to make it official. I'm not a nun or monk, so that's why I'm not one.
@karasti I take your point of view, but I understand from your posts that you are Buddhist. My understanding of Buddhism and as a practitioner is that it is an experientially revealing religion and by entering the Buddhist path you are essentially (either by taking vows in a lineage tradition, or by accepting the truths that unfold) opening up to the teaching or dharma. You can do this garbed in saffron robes or in Levi's jeans, but the cell is the same.
So however you may regard yourself as a monk, nun or lay person, when you take away the facade the same things is revealed. You may have been saying that. I just wanted to say it too!
@karasti I take your point of view, but I understand from your posts that you are Buddhist. My understanding of Buddhism and as a practitioner is that it is an experientially revealing religion and by entering the Buddhist path you are essentially (either by taking vows in a lineage tradition, or by accepting the truths that unfold) opening up to the teaching or dharma. You can do this garbed in saffron robes or in Levi's jeans, but the cell is the same.
So however you may regard yourself as a monk, nun or lay person, when you take away the facade the same things is revealed. You may have been saying that. I just wanted to say it too!
Mettha
This makes sense in a way... I think you have to be "in the right place at the right lifetime" in terms of practice to even consider being a monk, then for it to actually happen and you stick with it for life, which the far far majority do not. So those who stick with it in a way " become who they were born to be".
I connect it with the whole " those with little dust in their eyes" from the suttas, some are ready this lifetime, some were ready many lifetimes before and tread the path then, others will not be ready for many lifetimes to come. I personally don't know if this lifetime I am ready to live till it's end as a monk, or if I'll even be allowed to based on kamma and life circumstances, but I'll be damned if I'm not gonna give it a college try and do my best to practice dhamma and live by the example of the buddha whether in robes or out.
I agree! There are people who disagree, who believe you can only achieve a certain level as a lay person and must ordain in order to reach enlightenment but that doesn't seem to fit, to me. Not at this point in my practice, anyhow. I'm glad that I can be open to the teachings in my yoga pants, because some things are just way too uncomfortable to wear on my cushion!
I agree! There are people who disagree, who believe you can only achieve a certain level as a lay person and must ordain in order to reach enlightenment but that doesn't seem to fit, to me. Not at this point in my practice, anyhow. I'm glad that I can be open to the teachings in my yoga pants, because some things are just way too uncomfortable to wear on my cushion!
no yoga pants for me..robes are the most comfortable things ever.. just sayin.
Hi, let´s try to find out which way of living with buddhist teaching is better. Be a monk in a monastray or do pratice Gotamo Buddhos teaching by yourself. It was recommended by Gotamo Buddho that the meditation has to be done alone, without any possibility to be disturbed. Therefore it depends on the circumstances around and yourself.
anando
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
If I ever fully wake up perhaps I will consider being a monk but until then I'll just be some guy that's taken the Bodhisattva vows unofficially and follows the precepts to the best of my ability.
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DavidA human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First NationsVeteran
If I ever fully wake up perhaps I will consider being a monk but until then I'll just be some guy that's taken the Bodhisattva vows unofficially and follows the precepts to the best of my ability.
It seems there are a lot of options between being ordained in a monastery or practicing alone. I'd love at some point to be able to take a lengthier residential retreat, but it's something I don't think about much because it is not possible at this point. So, perhaps in the future. About the longest I can manage is a long weekend, I am going to one lead by my teacher in May for 4 or 5 days.
@iamthezenmaster said:
I don't want to be a monk...
For me the greatest deeds of good, peace and tranquility that can be found are hidden in ordinary life.
My concern with joining a Buddhist monastery would be that you could never be certain which interpretation of the Buddha's teaching you would receive there, or how true it would be to the original message.
My worry is that there are probably a lot of monasteries that are (whilst obviously adhering to the way and spirit of Buddhism) overly absorbed in ritual and tradition. Such a monastic setting might never take you to the core of Buddha's teachings, which I feel are hidden behind several layers of esotericism.
I've considered it. Over the past few years my brain seems to take personal salvation seriously.
But before that, I was interested in keeping up my practicing and holding it as a plan B in life. Lots of my meditations were very enjoyable to boot, why not spend my time watching my breath. The Thai forest tradition is very interesting to me.
Alas! I don't meditate much anymore and am barely managing life on my own. I think I want to prove it that I can work and live in the community before considering monkhood.
Comments
My main two bitches about laity and ordination and Buddhist hypocrisy are...
I can't tell you how many monks I've known who speak of spiritual equality out of one side of their mouth all the while elevating the ordained path out of the other side.
&
an equal amount of layfolk listening and imagining that ordination will somehow make their own koans an easier meal to digest.
Monks encouraging layfolk to ordain is as ridiculous as layfolk encouraging monks to return to laylife. The real practice is only here, in this moment, in our heart/mind, and is best left to the practice to point the way that's best for each individual..
Yah, no history here.
Becoming a monk could allow you to not have to worry about making money to support yourself, paying the car payment, going to that meeting on time, etc. I feel like I could really focus on my meditation and studies. But I'm young and have a lot of time to contemplate.
(PS: I don't!)
That's MY generation.... Ok, well, there is an overlap....
Frankie's music is good stuff. Obviously well before my generation... People always trying to put down.. Talkin but my generation.
What is done in that cell is self expression; so says anatman. LOL
Enjoy the love:
So however you may regard yourself as a monk, nun or lay person, when you take away the facade the same things is revealed. You may have been saying that. I just wanted to say it too!
Mettha
I connect it with the whole " those with little dust in their eyes" from the suttas, some are ready this lifetime, some were ready many lifetimes before and tread the path then, others will not be ready for many lifetimes to come. I personally don't know if this lifetime I am ready to live till it's end as a monk, or if I'll even be allowed to based on kamma and life circumstances, but I'll be damned if I'm not gonna give it a college try and do my best to practice dhamma and live by the example of the buddha whether in robes or out.
let´s try to find out which way of living with buddhist teaching is better. Be a monk in a
monastray or do pratice Gotamo Buddhos teaching by yourself.
It was recommended by Gotamo Buddho that the meditation has to be done alone,
without any possibility to be disturbed.
Therefore it depends on the circumstances around and yourself.
anando
A monk's life is probably out of the ordinary.
I'm perfectly happy as a Buddhist laywoman. I adhere to the Dharma but celibacy and abstinence are definite no nos for me!
My concern with joining a Buddhist monastery would be that you could never be certain which interpretation of the Buddha's teaching you would receive there, or how true it would be to the original message.
My worry is that there are probably a lot of monasteries that are (whilst obviously adhering to the way and spirit of Buddhism) overly absorbed in ritual and tradition. Such a monastic setting might never take you to the core of Buddha's teachings, which I feel are hidden behind several layers of esotericism.
I've considered it. Over the past few years my brain seems to take personal salvation seriously.
But before that, I was interested in keeping up my practicing and holding it as a plan B in life. Lots of my meditations were very enjoyable to boot, why not spend my time watching my breath. The Thai forest tradition is very interesting to me.
Alas! I don't meditate much anymore and am barely managing life on my own. I think I want to prove it that I can work and live in the community before considering monkhood.