Happy or right
yagr
Veteran
There's a question often asked in circles that I run in that asks, "Would you rather be happy or right?"
The "correct" answer is happy - at least that is the rhetorical part of the question. Considering it seriously, I realized quite some time ago that being right was more important. Today I can let much more go. I was thinking some more about this last evening though, and wondered if there wasn't something to this question that spoke to Buddhist principles - particularly amongst Western Buddhists.
I was born into a blue collar Catholic universe. Catholicism was certainly an easier, softer way for me to go. But it didn't seem 'right' to me. There was something more. I'm not suggesting that embracing illusion is the way to happiness - but certainly going along with the crowd certain appears to be less fraught with trouble. I just found myself wondering if a preference for right, even if happiness had to be sacrificed, didn't play a part in my embracing Buddhism.
Anyway, just a random thought this morning...wondering if anyone else had some personal insight into the question.
Comments
Sometimes being "right" makes you happy.
@yagr
To the question "Would you rather be happy or right" is......... Neither.
Just accepting what ever you are offers you the least amount of potential suffering.
Of course for most non Buddhists that does require a whole lot of explanations about
attachments and change.
Certainly, no arguments here - which would of course, be mighty unskillful.
Like you said though, it does take a great deal of explanation for most. Just looking at the question from their paradigm and considering it from that vantage point.
Happy and right is better than happy and wrong.
@yagr.
Happy, right, unhappy & wrong are fleeting.
It is our relationship to them and not those experienced states that determines what leads to suffering's cessation and what does not.
To effectively deal with a different paradigm, I find that first getting them to really define "right" & "happy|" usually sorts out much of that question.
if it is 'Right' , it is sure to bring 'Happiness'
Well, we can tell when we're happy.
But how can we tell we're right?
Right means different things to different people.
What feels right for you might feel totally wrong to someone else.
And choosing to be right sometimes puts you at odds with certain people.
If it's people you care about, being right won't always equal being happy.
But if whatever you do feels right for you, and does not interfere with anyone else's rights , ultimately you'll feel happy.
the spiritual plath implies difficulties with the material world--so of course people will diss you, but who cares, you have something greater and eternal, while they laugh at you from their limited perspectives... if it's easy, then it's probably gonna keep you in the same plane of illusion, so if you want to progress, don't be afraid but embrace it like a mountain climber...
In what ways, exactly?
Question everything.
Kind of a toughie... I know I'd rather be wrong than miserable so...
I seem to be happiest when people around me are happy but it's almost like comparing apples to wingnuts. I am no more right when those around me are right.
Happiness is when our expectations are met, but when we strive to serve those expectations we run the risk of creating a generation of brats, or so I think.
Convenience almost always turns into necessity.
TY ourself
.. and need turns into inventiveness ( in order to increase time efficacy ) also the other way around, that inventiveness creates reliance.
just tie yourself as in bind yourself to your teacher and the rest is automatic... don't be going from path to path, find one and stick to it... if i'm your teacher is best but it's not essential, why did i say that...
"Would you rather be happy or right?"
Would you rather believe in a beautiful lie or face the ugly truth?
Or could it be that reality is neither beautiful nor ugly? It's just the way it is.
What if it's during those times when you are sure you are right that you look the stupidest and most arrogant?
One certainly looks the stupidest and most arrogant when trying to prove that one is right.
If you go about your life simply basking in the rightness of your choices without trying to impose your point on others, then you can be happy. And others too.
And even our own idea of "right" evolves over time. What we find right today might not seem quite that right five minutes later, months later, years later.
It doesn't matter how it looks. Being right isn't a fashion competition.
And that would be the right way to see it. Or maybe the "correct" way would be more accurate?
Would you rather be blissfully aware or blissfully ignorant? I know which one I'd choose.
Indeed.
If our righteousness or right being has a polarity or opposing possibility it is empty of reality. Only when our being right is contextual and independent of preference or positioning can it be considered skilful.
So even when I am wrong, which happens on a daily and continual daily basis, it may be the right thing or rather the most skilful I can manage.
So I would recommend living up to our awakened ideals. Even though a false contrivance, a silly Sila mask if you will, none the less that mask is a skill set.
Not everyone is ready to get naked . . .
:vimp: .
Sure, but that doesn't mean that "right" or "correct" is entirely subjective in a Buddhist context - there is Right View, the Four Truths, the three characteristics, and so on.
I am no more right when those around me are right.
True, but we can feel happier in our rightness if everyone agrees with us.
.
Kia Ora,
"Would you rather be happy or right?"
I'm always happy and right even when I'm wrong.....
Metta Shoshin .
..
I would prefer neither to be happy, nor right, but I would prefer not to increase my suffering, though practically my situation (due to my defilements) usually turns out to be its opposite.
"People are less likely to forgive you when they discover you were right all along".
it is better to be wrong together with others, than right by yourself. scientifically many people make better decisions than a single person deciding. if it goes against your individual choices that's the point, to make you step outside your own egotistical boundaries... later what was wrong will become right as you join that mindset. You can live in both worlds, the catholic one in a superficial way, and also study your spiritual books or whatever at home quietly before you go to bed, etc... all reality should become unified in the end, not be all fragmented although some tension should exist between the material and the spiritual because they're opposites.
And sometimes being happy makes you (feel al)right. :thumbsup: .
But that is a bit out of topic maybe?
To get on topic @yagr could you please give me an example of what you mean?
In what circumstance is it happy vs right? Do you mean like being cheated on by your partner?
/Victor
It seems that this topic is too broad. Perhaps some refinement is advisable.
no simple formula, mate...
we never be happy
because
we never get what we expect
because
we (our five faculties) getting older moment to moment, day by day (thoka thokam, kane kane)
the day (moment) we see, know and accept this 'Truth'
we stop being unhappy
We cannot be TRULY happy without following allegiance to truth. Until then we have bubble baths
The heart of truth is to wish for happiness for self and all beings. That is indestructible so long as you are a sentient being. Even a murderer wants to be happy. I guess it is harder to see how compassion is the nature of a murderer or even (one of us) with kleshas. Another way to say it is that there is a truth to the universe and that truth actually has a heart to it. Other qualities of the universe are: change, finely structured, and containing manifest and non-manifest.
Okay bloke.
I can get what I expect. With experience, and wise choices. I can be happy with what I get. So long as I realize that that happiness is temporary. Which is what you are getting at I think.
For example: I'm happy with my boat. After 25 yrs I still love the way she looks when I walk down the dock. And she's been good to me. But she's made of wood so there is always rot. I can't get around it. I've spent so much money keeping her up, it's ridiculous. Which does not make me happy. One day she'll be too far gone. Or I will be. Either way, I'll be sad to see her go.
Same applies to people. Keep the expectations realistic and I won't be disappointed. Enjoy their good qualities and tolerate the bad ones.
Expect them to get sick and die. Expect to be unhappy when it happens, but try to remember that unhappiness is temporary.
So, if I believe that realizing the truth of impermanence will prevent unhappiness, will I be continually disappointed and unhappy when that lack of unhappiness turns out to be impermanent?
well, why don't you make a suggestion as to which route we should take...
tif being right makes you a jerk to others, then it's worthless...
Just wanted to clarify that my LOL at the comment had to do with the "mate-bloke" way of addressing between boys.
Sounds funny to foreign ears.
What does "right" mean.
What does "happy" mean.
Seems so obvious, but the convo seems to be struggling along.
if it's right and true no one will object. opposition is a sign that it's either false or wrong. you could be true but wrong, so that would cause an objection, or right but false... so it's a delicate matter of getting both to match...
When you choose the right thing for you and do it skillfully, it brings happiness. Even if someone else in your life thinks otherwise.
But arguing for the sake of trying to prove how right you are or even to try to force someone to see your side of things isn't generally going to make you happy, even if you can prove 100% that what you say is truly a fact. Those who don't believe you still won't believe you. They'll walk about oblivious and you'll walk away angry/frustrated/irritated/annoyed. You certainly didn't win anything there even if you were right.
In what circumstance is it happy vs right? Do you mean like being cheated on by your partner?
A newly married couple went for a walk together in a wood, one fine summer's evening after dinner. They were having such a wonderful time being together until they heard a sound in the distance: Quack! Quack!"
"Listen," said the wife, "That must be a chicken."
"No, no. That was a duck," said the husband.
"No, I'm sure that was a chicken," she said.
"Impossible. Chicken's go 'Cock-a-doodle-doo,' ducks go 'Quack! Quack!' That's a duck darling," he said, with the first signs of irritation.
"Quack! Quack!" it went again.
"See! It's a duck," he said.
"No dear. That's a chicken. I'm positive," she asserted, digging in her heels.
"Listen wife! That--is--a--duck. D-u-c-k, duck! Got it?" he said angrily.
"But it's a chicken," she protested.
"It's a friggin' duck you, you..."
And it went "Quack! Quack!" again before he said something he oughtn't.
The wife was almost in tears. "But it's a chicken."
The husband saw the tears welling up in his wife's eyes and, at last, remembered why he married her. His face softened and he said gently, "Sorry darling, I think you must be right. That is a chicken."
"Thank you darling," she said as she squeezed his hand.
"Quack! Quack!" came the sound through the woods as they continued their walk together in love.
I'm not sure you've clarified the situation.
Is a marriage built on lies a good marriage?
Is allowing a wife (in this case) to remain dumb and to not know the difference between a duck and a chicken wise?
My feelings exactly at one point.
And this was my concern.
Ajahm Brahm continues:
The insight that the husband finally awakened to was this: Who cares whether it is a chicken or a duck? What was much more important than their harmony together, that they could enjoy their walk on a fine summer's evening. How many marriages are broken over unimportant matters. How many divorces are "chicken or duck" stuff?
When we understand this story, we will remember our priorities. The marriage is more important than being right about whether it is a chicken or a duck. And besides, how many times have we been absolutely, certainly, and positively convinced we are right - only to find out later we were, in fact, totally wrong? Who knows? That could have been a genetically modified chicken made to sound like a duck!
dunno @yagr I never lie and me and my spouse is alright so far. I never lie to my kids either nor to anyone else that I can think of.
Some people including my relatives find this strange and don't really believe me.
Sometimes I do not tell the truth and stay silent instead but for me that is always a uneasy feeling involved and no happiness.
Maybe there might be some fleeting moment of happiness for the other person involved?
But what lasting happiness is there in a lie?
I do not believe it.
/Victor
EDIT: the choice in your story is not really about being right? It is about thinking you are right and wanting to push your opinion. Right?
Oh come on. Get real.
To be clear, I was relating a story, not telling it myself.
Yes. The story would have worked better if it was a chicken impersonating a duck though.
.
This was my initial take as well. I believe the 'moral' of the story, if in fact there is one, is that it is not a lie - it is an opinion. An opinion based on everything you have learned up till now about ducks and chickens perhaps - but it is still just an opinion - a belief.
I know more about myself than I do about either chickens or ducks and yet I was nearly thirty years old before I formed a belief that I wasn't an absolutely, worthless piece of sh#t. Prior to that, I thought I was.
Ultimately, I've found that what I believe is seldom helpful, even when I'm right. And so, chicken? duck?
Everything is only an opinion. An opinion becomes "true" because a lot of people have the same opinion.
This is what Anatta means. There are no values in things other than in the mind of people. But in the mind of people there is such a thing as a Truth. And a Lie.
I agree that chickens and ducks are silly things to fight about but the way of the Dhamma is:
To avoid evil, cultivate what is good and to cleanse our minds.
Right?
So in any given situation how can you say a person needs to hear this or that to be happy? It is their own journey as my path is my own.
In the end it is not what you do but their own lobha, dosa and moha that brings unhappiness to them.
And I am sure that lying is not To avoid evil, cultivate what is good and to cleanse our minds
What good is it to help others keep holding on to a lie if you know it for a lie? That is not really skillful action?
Besides she might just be messing with you.
.
/Victor
We chickens sure are quackers . . .
:buck: .