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the 'perfect' way
genkaku
Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
Ultimate...
Perfect...
Unexcelled...
Pure...
True...
Incalculable...
Indubitable...
Real...
Unalloyed...
Fully enlightened...
To what extent do such words and others like them play a role in your practice?
Are they more help or hindrance?
I am too old and creaky to have a useful opinion.
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Comments
Me too.
For me, words that imply flawlessness are not useful. I prefer to "do my best" rather than to be perfect.
Damn...4 of those words I've never seen before, let alone use them...hahahaha
I use the word 'true' when I agree with someone...thats about it.
I'm on "no such thing as perfect" team.
language creates our vision of the world, and often has more impact than we realize. Reminds me of an Allan Watts lecture, "The Limits of Language" that I had enjoyed.
It would really depend on the context for me I guess.
The last one seems a bit off-putting to me though. I'd have to suspend my disbelief for that because it implies there is no more to learn. Fully awakened seems to work better because it leaves room for unfolding.
Strong methaphors, words, opinions, feelings, colours, odours, tastes... Not so bad if they really suit on the context and entirety, and they might have be given more or less seriously.
Well...I'm thinking that dear ol' @genkaku had Something in mind when he started this thread; that's the mystery. We writer types and writer wanna-be's can't just throw words away now, can we.
I think that language is to reality what a map is to scenery.
@genkaku
These are only ideas represented by words.
Although I can't remember the last time an idea had much relevance to my meditation, they're welcome to stop by for a visit anytime they wish.
@how -- Have you ever felt the sometimes-blazing fires of disagreement when such glowing words are questioned. Eg. "Gautama was fully enlightened" is taken as a premise rather than a discovery and woe betide the person who asks, "How do you know that?"
Or perhaps the sutras are "authentic."
Or ... well, pick your verbiage and supposition.
I'm not saying that such ideas can't bear good fruit. I am just feeling cautious about the bitter fruit they can bear.
If I read them in scripture it depends on the author and context. If some words don't bring me to the right point then I have to find my own words.
@mindatrisk you nailed it.
If we say the Buddhas are enheavied rather than enlightened people will as you say, question the meaning. They may for example examine the concept of responsibility and compassion as a lightening burden.
They may prefer the convential term of losing the wait [sic]. The english language does not work like Arabic or Hebrew that can have multiple meanings dependent on vowels. English has its own strenghts and conventions.
Ideally words convey potential rather than specifics. For example if they have meaning, this can refer to mean:
So words can drive us to examine, ignore, contemplate or gibber. Right speech is the outcome of right hearing.
@genkaku is a more skilled wordsmith than me, so the direction is open to suggestion ...
I enclose a picture of some words hanging in an art gallery just for fun ...
ditto!
LOL. LOGOS. Speaking in tongues?
In the beginning was the word etc
... Gosh, we are back to bitter sweet seeds and fruit ...
In my practice, I prefer simple and even crude words to these abstract wise-ish words.
For instance, we all understand what sht is. But unalloyed? What the hell is that? Can anyone show me unalloyed? No? Then I'm not taking that prudish sht!
^^^ I could post you pristine, unalloyed shit but that serves no purpose.
Yes, that includes civility and right speech as a choice on the most banal level. A little while ago I posted a picture of the Buddha with a pseudo-Buddha quote. The words, supposedly from the Buddha, read 'Don't be a C*nt'.
The moderators, rightly so, removed the picture.
It was in context, funny, shocking and meaningful good advice and its power was in the deeply offensive use of words. To do something like that is risky and might be flippant bad taste or in a sense the summation of Buddha Dharma.
Words can be hurtful and awakening. They can be trite and unskilful. They can be at their very best unalloyed wisdom, if we learn to hear and contemplate the meaning behind the meaning.
In the words of the buddha: ... but you already know what I am going to say ...
Well-put. @lobster.
@shadowleaver , take it as read, you can use any words you want. Truly, you can.
In whatever circumstances.
But, whether your posts, or even you, remain, after that, is up to Moderation.
And that is the supreme, unsurpassed truth, @federica .
Well.... I wouldn't put it like that, but.....pretty close, yeah.....