How far would you go to observe the first precept?
dukkha
Quebec, Canada New
I am new to "NewBuddhist" forum, so I should start by introducing myself a little bit. Right now I feel a little blue so I call myself Dukkha. I learn Buddhism mostly from Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo on Youtube. I tried a few meditation techniques before I chose Mantra meditation because I find the vibration of sound such as "Om mani padme hum" really has an effect on me.
I have a question for you: "How far would you go to observe the first precept?"
This year, black ants tried to enter my kitchen. I was terrified that they might set up a colony inside my house and I am also worried that I might harm these tiny creatures and violate the first precept! so I carefully picked up the ants one by one and returned them to the back yard so they could return to their colony. I had to do that many times over many days because they kept coming back. I was panicked and clumsy so I handled them a little bit rough at first. Slowly, I learnt to be more gentle to them. A few times I brought them far away from their colony but I regretted that and prayed for those lost ants to be adopted in a new colony!
I used white vinegar mixed with water to wipe out their tracks. Once I circled an ant with vinegar mixture to make it stay inside the circle but vinegar flowed on it and it fainted. I felt very bad because I thought I killed it! I put its tiny unconscious body on the window frame and watched and prayed. When the vinegar dried, it got up and moved again. I was so relieved!
I don't know what to do if there are worse problems such as cockroaches or bed bugs. Where would you draw the line? Even these Malaysian monks face ant dilemma:
Comments
I read a book by Lama Surya Das, and in this book he outlined the dilemma of a Monastery in the USA which was over-run by cockroaches.
St first, the monks lived alongside their "little brothers and sisters" but after a while, the infestation increased to dangerous and unhealthy proportions.
This put off people from attending, spending retreats there and eating or cooking.
In the end, after consultation with their "Mother" monastery, they called in the exterminators, and offered up mantras and prayers for the cockroaches taken care of by the company hired to cleanse the Monastery.
Monks and monasteries are one thing.
Laypeople are subjected, at times, to greater perils.
as such, we should be Mindful.
But we shouldn't be morons about it.
From the article:
So, in other words: "Hey, we can't kill them ourselves, but if someone comes in to do the job of their own accord, for the good of visitors, we won't be held responsible!"
See?
There are ways round everything....
@dukkha
welcome!
A lot of this is about assuming the responsibility of finding out how you are enabling there presence in your home and thereby also your need to deal with them.
The first thing, is to find out where the food is in your kitchen that the ants are getting to and isolate it from their access. If they are little ants, they are only there because they've found food there. If they are big ants then your home itself might actually be their food.
The next is to find out if they are coming and going from outside or if have they already established a nest within your house. This is just a meditation of following any one ant and it will probably either take you to the food or to the nest or there access point to the outside.
Let us know what you find so we can then better advise you.
With each moment, all organisms kill countless others, in order to survive.
Humans are no different from this need.
As a Buddhist practitioner trying to minimize the harm that you create, each of one of must determine for ourselves where that line of harm gets drawn for us.
While absolutes are not do-able, what should be established though is your intent to actively minimize that harm.
Thank you @how for your guidance. Your last line helps me to think clearer:
Intent to actively minimize: These are the key words to straighten my thoughts. My little black ants got the vinegar message and haven't come back yet. But this experience humbled me, confused and upset me. I am new to Buddhism so I need to do more research about the first precept. It's not as simple as I thought!
Are you able to block the hole in which they're entering?
Also, as @how mentioned, don't leave food out anywhere. Make sure your kitchen is clean so they don't have an incentive to come in.
Good luck!
Thank you @Bunks, my problem with the ants is solved! but my problem with the first precept is still big!
I am nervous about where & how should I draw the line? To kill or not to kill?
Why are you nervous?
Welcome @dukkha. Hope you find something useful here.
My view is probably entirely wrong, but here it is: Precepts are not about what anyone should not do. They are about what anyone will do AND is willing to take responsibility for.
For example: Anyone who has practiced Buddhism for a while knows that it is impossible not to kill. This very breath I take is a breath that might sustain or nourish another creature or a blade of grass. In this way, my activity as a living being nourishes one thing and deprives another. No amount of righteous talk can escape this difficulty. So why then would the precept suggest "don't kill?"
Much of anyone's (or anyway my) life is pretty careless. I do one thing or another, acquire one thing or another, hold dear or reject one thing or another ... all of it without much consideration. If I think something is "good," I want it. If I think it is "bad," I try to escape its coils. Buddhist training encourages careful attention and endless responsibility... no more careless lifestyle. Does it work, is it ever perfect? Nope. People live and people die. Ants live and ants die. But in between, a careful and attentive life -- which is only perfect in comic books -- proceeds more harmoniously. It's not "holy," it's just sensible.
Nothing happens overnight. Practice takes patience. So, be patient. No point in having a nervous breakdown. Just bit by bit, assume the responsibility (pointed out by the precepts and elsewhere) that you already have.
And if that doesn't work, have some ice cream and try again ... it's all any of us can do.
Best wishes.
@dukkha ,
"Right View" seems to be a biggy when it comes to "Doing the 'right' thing!"
"The word Samma means 'proper', 'whole', 'thorough', 'integral', 'complete', and 'perfect' - related to English 'summit' - It does not necessarily mean 'right', as opposed to 'wrong'. However it is often translated as "right" which can send a less than accurate message. For instance the opposite of 'Right Awareness' is not necessarily 'Wrong Awareness'. It may simply be incomplete. Use of the word 'right' may make for a neat or consistent list of qualities in translations. The down side is that it can give the impression that the Path is a narrow and moralistic approach to the spiritual life. I use variant interpretations so you consider the depth of meanings. What do these things mean in your life right now?"
~John Allan~
You might like to look through this old thread
"Uh Oh...There goes the neighbourhood"
@silver > Why are you nervous?>
@silver, I don't know. I am going through a sad, tough & confusing period right now. The invasion of black ants is the only thing that is safe to cry on.
@Shoshin thank you for the old thread! very interesting to read.
@dukkha
While the** intent** that powers karma's impetus, is usually spoken of as the mental constructs of ones good or bad intent, it's inertia is often just as dependent upon some related physical activity as well.
For large ant incursions, make a piece of tissue paper into the shape of a cup. Put it into the end of the segmented tube wand of any vacuum cleaner and leave one inch of the tissue cups edges exposed. Trap the edges of the tissue cup over the edge of that wand with the vacuum attachment of your choice so that it secures that tissue cup in place. This will give you an easily disposable paper filter in the shape of a cup to hold hundreds of possible bugs. If the wand has an adjustment for power....set it first to low. Turn on the vacuum to test if your tissue can resist tearing from the air velocity.
When you collect up what you wish, turn off vacuum, free the tissue by removing the attachment that held it in place and pour the contents and the freed tissue cup into a jar to lid and transport.
If you do get another unwanted incursion, this can safely a collect a huge number of bugs for a relatively easy transport outside that might well reflect your intent at being harmless.
Thank you very much @how for the nice trick. I will try it for sure next time.
Bravo savours of the ant people!
'Thou shalt not kill' is a worthy ideal. Sadly when the chicken crossed the road, someone killed and froze it. I ate it! [welcome to NewBuddhist from the naughty corner]
The other day failing to wear my Bodhi Jain mask, I inhaled a small insect, fortunately I was in a state of mindfulness and was able to direct a metta powered snort to save this karmically fortunate insect. I congratulated myself on the future merit of saving not only him but his potential offspring.
I commend the efforts of the ant protectors but living in a world where chicken is on the food list, I break precepts on a regular life menu ...
May the Buddhas and Ants forgive me!
Right, good, well why don't we cut to the chase and focus on the cause rather than the symptoms?
@dukkha, the First Precept is to vow to do no harm to living sentient beings.
That includes primarily, first and foremost - yourself. In fact, the 1st Precept is a valid precursor, or general umbrella for every precept that follows. The first five are those normally adhered to by laypeople. Having taken care of the first, observe the following 4:
If you steal - you harm yourself and your kamma.
If you behave inappropriately sensually/sexually - you harm yourself and your kamma.
If you gossip and slander - you harm yourself and your kamma.
If you take mentally-stimulating substances - you harm yourself and your kamma.
For the convenience for members, and out of respect for their stories - we have a 'Members-Only' forum here where you can post about anything you want without fear of general broadcast, or anyone surfing the internet finding it. It's a "closed" forum, in other words, it's secure and blanketed from prying eyes.
If you wish to start a thread there, to air what ails you, I'm sure you will find a huge amount of support outpouring from members, which will undoubtedly help....
As far as humanly possible!
With regards to insects, the very best way to keep the precept is to do everything possible to prevent the conditions that would allow an insect infestation to occur to begin with. That way, you won't even be faced with the decision to begin with. Thus, making it quite easy to keep the precept! For example, if one keeps a kitchen in a way that will inevitably attract insects, that would then need to be possibly killed, one could say one has already failed in keeping the precept!
I hope you don't eat crustaceans, that would be like cannibalism.
I always liked how Thubten Chodron explained the breaking of precepts:
For a precept to be broken completely, four conditions must be present
1. The motivation is a destructive attitude such as attachment, anger, etc.
2. There is an object of the action, e.g., a being that is killed or an object that is stolen.
3. One does the action. If one tells someone else to kill, steal or lie, it is also a transgression.
4. The action is completed, e.g., the being dies before oneself or one thinks, “This is mine.”
For me a big one is the intent and motivation part. What is behind your reasoning for doing something? That is an important factor. Few would question your decision to have your pet dog put to sleep after they were suffering from horrible pain. Why? Because your motivation is love and compassion. Most would question your shooting your dog because he keeps pooping on the floor, because your motivation/intent is one of selfishness.
Of course, one has to be honest with oneself about intent and where it is coming from. As we all know, the road to hell is paved with "good" intentions.
@seeker242 said > the very best way to keep the precept is to do everything possible to prevent the conditions >
@seeker242 yes, this is my theory too. I always try not to put myself in the difficult position but sometimes things just happen to make it impossible to avoid. What I got is a few forager ants exploring the possibility of a new home. I was ready to hurt a few forager ants right away to prevent the genocide of the ants colony later. I sent them vinegar welcome so they left and haven't come back yet. But the experience shook me (because of my already fragile mental health).
I think the first precept is like a race to test the endurance, to see how far one can go.
The most painful case is the allies had to decide to drop atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, sacrificing hundred thousands civilians in order to end the war to save million other lives.
And on the other extreme end is the Bodhisattva offered his body as meat for hungry tigers to devout.