lasting presence in the shortest time possible without going through a "dark night of the soul"
sciencebuff
San Francisco, California New
TLDR: how do I achieve maximum presence (for as long as possible) in the shortest amount of time possible?
Looking at the only 3 buddha's (with a small b) with whom I have familiarity of their life, Eckhart Tolle, Jesus and the Buddha, I've observed that they all seem to have went through a process where they basically had to kill themselves in one way or another, you could say spiritually, to come out the other side with a lasting, deep presence.
Ultimately you seemingly have to go through a very painful process to come out the other side a happy, peaceful person who can manifest things if they'd like.
I've had some personal experiences with dark nights of the soul involuntarily and voluntarily throughout my life where this happened, at least to a large extent. Unfortunately, either I didn't go through the experience profoundly enough or things in my environment were so powerful that they were able to jolt me out of it. I'm leaning much more towards it being my problem though.
My question is, how can I achieve the benefits of a dark night of the soul completely, forever without having to suffer profoundly?
Can I achieve presence with effort? I've heard of "Right Effort" in Buddhism and John Kabot Zinn says mindfulness is paying attention in the present moment" as if your life depends on it" but I've also heard from Sant Rajinder Singh that mediation "should be an effortless effort".
If I do achieve presence through effort, will doing more of it overtime yield more results?
how do I achieve maximum presence (for as long as possible) in the shortest amount of time possible?
Comments
To some extent you're barking up the wrong tree. On the one hand the spiritual path is a lifelong pursuit, progress is usually pretty incremental with the occasional breakthrough. At another level, it becomes hard to actually make progress with an attitude of striving.
Also, pain and suffering often make some of the best fertilizer for our practice and growth.
I imagine that's not quite the answer you were hoping for. It gets asked fairly regularly and my response I think resembles the response experienced teachers give. If you really wanted to go fast, perhaps something like joining a retreat community as a practitioner if you can afford it or as staff working for room and board?
Regarding skipping aspects of the path (I'm not sure this fits completely here), there is something called spiritual bypassing where one moves past certain things without addressing them. Down the road these buried things become unburied or continue to impact us in ways we lack awareness of because we deny or ignore them.
The very idea of ‘maximum presence’ is likely to set you off on the wrong foot. My experiences have been more in the trend of gradual unfolding, taking every unsatisfactory experience in my life as a teacher which tells me more about myself and allows me to come closer to living happily and authentically.
I would say, surround yourself with the spiritual. Imbibe it, breathe it, live it, if that’s what you really want to do. Don’t avoid life, because life is your best teacher.
One thing that’s impossible is to be the next Eckhart Tolle. You can’t imitate all the things that happened to him to become just like him, or like Jesus, or like the Buddha. We all have a unique path through life, and the best we can do is live it in the best way we know how.
You could say, my life involves ten years of hardship as a Buddhist monk. Or you could say, I’m going to study with the shamans of South America. Those are life paths which you could choose, depending on what inspires you on your spiritual quest. Either way, I’d suggest some time learning how to learn from life.
Awakening is a peculiar thing. Many people meditate for years and nothing happens. And some have all kinds of colourful experiences which convince them they’ve found ‘it’, and for some people nothing happens. Others have a psychosis and take ten years to recover. So be gentle with yourself, learn compassion for your body and mind.
A lot of things might be helpful. Creating positive karma with the hope to have it connect you with the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha? Developing beneficial qualities and understanding, even if only a small amount compared with what is ultimately possible.
I'm under the impression it involves ongoing practice and whatever one already has in their karma bank savings...
Turn inwards and simply figure out 'who am I'. It's as simple as that.
I read some forums and there is always one or two people who ask this type of question. One says that they have been practicing for 20 years and just wish they would get a glimpse of this Nirvana or Buddha nature. Now, this person asking how he (she) can get the benefits without suffering.
And then, there are those who seemly have all the answers whether they have experienced Nirvana (or Buddha nature) or not. Of course, the ones with the answers are the ones who annoy me cause it is not like I haven't tried those things nor is it like I do not know those answers.
Is there a short cut? Psychedelics? Might let you see what it may be like but it doesn't last. If it doesn't last then how is it real? And does it really help or does it hinder? The stories handed down about Buddha and his successors do not mention drug use.
I am guessing the quickest way to enlightenment is to find a teacher who has the wisdom and compassion to bring one to see the truth of the nature of oneself. And even then there are no guarantees.
In the sutras it says the Buddha awakened many, but other than that I don’t know of anyone who claims to have even one enlightened student. So finding a teacher of that calibre is not going to be easy.
The Fast paths are in Buddhist Tantra, Mahamudra and Dzogchen. In Zen, Zen.
In Theravadin, becoming a Nun. In Jainism being born a man. In Islam, Secular Sufism. In short, head straight for the Stark Knight of the Sole. And start Taoist fishing ..
Would it help to see the soul expanded to include all of the suffering in the world? There is enough suffering to wake us all right now.
What are we waiting for, Sam?
Gate Gate Paragate Para Sam Gate, Bodhi Svaha!
Gate Gate Paragate Para Sam Gate, Bodhi Svaha!
Gate Gate Paragate Para Sam Gate, Bodhi Svaha!
Perhaps enlightenment is only limited by our attempts to possess that which we have never been apart from.
Is more time needed than the only moment we have ever been able to practice within?
How to describe to a prisoner that the only jailer was themselves?
interesting, whose sam
? i do know sam-sara. what does that mantra say. just curious.
Gate Gate- Gone Gone
Paragate- Gone Beyond
Para-sam-gate- Gone Beyond Completely (altogether)
Bodhi - Awakening
Svaha- Ha or Hail or just so
We are Sam, lol.
exactly.l.o.l=lots of love in our bodhi heart. we are the gate to welcome all our wonderful s.a.m -earth. our 4th lord shakimoon wanted us to see samsara is our nirvana pure-play-land,imo. play and work well, from my zen ox tradition, the taurus star. my new mantra, take it easy,easy does it, from our friend the rapper easy e. with breath, we be.
https://www.seussville.com/characters/sam-i-am/
... In case you need a doctor
meanwhile ... Gently. Slowly. Careful NOW.
I was taught that the journey was more akin to straightening one's house. To prepare for the master to return. The elements in the house, workers, maids and more are all doing things which is what ever they want to do. No disciple. No direction. Correcting this behavior bring about order. Then when the house is ready, the master can return.
Of course, this is just a metaphor or allegory or just something to feed the mind to get things working proper again. It will not stretch beyond and go to all limits.
Perhaps enlightenment is not limited by our attempts to seek it? Perhaps it is obscured by our attempts to possess that which we already have? To want some "thing" that is not a thing?
Well said. Exactly right. Well more than perhaps, if sorting out a housing ...
the trick when seeking enlightenment (tell us if you have not heard this somewhere before) is:
In not pursuing it - it will arise from you
Gather wisdom
Develop and practice empathy with compassion
Practice mercy
Think of others but do not forget yourself
Think of self but never forget others
Practice kindness - even when it is difficult
Be patient...
Don't be afraid to cry
Don't forget to laugh
Also, do not be other than yourself
Live
By the way, your tea has gotten cold.
Peace to all
Dear Friends in an imaginary house,
Oh wait, not me, I really am in a house. As well as being 1
>
The Buddha gave the eightfold path. This means to set straight one's life and thinking. It is akin to putting one's house in order. Once all things are in proper places then the truth will reveal itself.
One can not seek something which is already in one's hands. Just have to clear out all the stuff which clouds the mirror and clarity opens up to reveal the truth.
I do not claim to be enlightened. Rather that I have given up trying to find something so elusive. I just go about trying to straighten out my life. Practice what I have been taught. If I need to go thru rebirth again then there must be something I need to learn before I can go home.
You seem rather serious, @Avisitor … have you not heard, seriousness is a disease? We can do more than merely parrot the wisdom of the ancients. Instead we need to bring it to our present age, with internet, smartphones and apps, so that we can have neo-Tao, neo-Zen, neo-Buddhism and reinvigorate these things for a modern world.
Just remember to laugh at yourself, and don’t take it seriously!
ah, now let us lift our cups if tea or coffee or wine and celebrate another shared step forward.
Peace to all
My cousin + partner, have spent their health, monies and even at times, sanity, on building and rebuilding a house and garden. They have a lovely home, garden, visitors, family and lifestyle.
They feel they have built this. In one sense, their house and garden etc has built them. In other words, our roles and efforts, maintain our life and dictate the results of our path.
You want to go home? You are. Now, walk the walk and talk the talk. Mostly be the Bodhi not the bondage.