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Zazen is not meditation?!

KotishkaKotishka Veteran
in Meditation

Dear all,

What is the difference between having a meditation practiced based on following the breath versus one having no grounding at all (just sitting)? Well, your mind is the _ground _really during zazen! Then why distinguish zazen as not being a meditation practice?

If zazen is what the Buddha did, then zazen is just meditation. If we get all technical and scholarly, we could even say it is a type / sub-type of meditation.

Any thoughts?

Thank you all.

JeffreyJeroen

Comments

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran

    Perhaps counting or breathing is a technique of meditation? But the actual meditation is calm abiding and/or insight?

  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran

    My guess is not calling it meditation has something to do with Zen's tendency to avoid pedestalizing things, making zazen "no big deal". Making "spiritual" things into these special things subtly changes the nature of the practice itself.

  • JeroenJeroen Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter Netherlands Veteran
    edited March 31

    I have lately found that meditation is in not-doing. Focusing on any kind of doing, whether that is breathing or even just sitting, becomes a strain and an effort and gets away from the refreshing quality of real meditation. Just let doing evaporate, and you’ll find it takes the mind with it.

  • Shoshin1Shoshin1 Sentient Being Oceania Veteran
    edited March 31

    Zazen is good for nothing.


    Jeroenmarcitko
  • howhow Veteran Veteran

    Hey Kotishka

    Can your meditation be found through a description of it?
    Can you describe it in a way that the mind grasps after no thing?
    Does this goal of goal- lessness need a goalie?
    Even the Prajnaparamita's description of it, through offerings of what it is not,
    falls short.
    Which is actually its point.

    Ozempic for your suffering?. Coming soon to a zafu near you.

    paulysotoo
  • JeroenJeroen Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter Netherlands Veteran
    edited April 1

    @Shoshin1 said:
    Zazen is good for nothing.

    (videos)

    I really enjoyed these video’s, it was a perfect reminder for my morning.
    Thanks @Shoshin1

    Shoshin1lobster
  • KotishkaKotishka Veteran
    edited April 1

    @How

    But zazen is meditation then! Why say it is not meditation practice? I mean, I find this an extra-confusing step. Perhaps you want to get rid of categories and concepts but human beings operate and construct these to engage with their reality.

    [Dramatic pause]

    Mid-way through writing that paragraph I realise how this conceptual proliferation -In Theravada, they call it papañca - is so human-like and perhaps to reach Nirvana one must learn to pause it.

    Kotishka's head begins to emit steam

    Thank you all.

    PD: I will watch the videos later Shoshin :)

    federicahowlobster
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran

    ...Kotishka's head begins to emit steam

    and

    ...[Dramatic pause]

    If indeed meditation is an undramatic pause, with a steam room or room for steam. It ain't Nothing At All. I'll join!
    https://www.ted.com/talks/pico_iyer_the_art_of_stillness/transcript

    Kotishka
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