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Martial Arts and Buddhism - Is it acceptable?
Comments
I have two Martial Art classmates. One is a Korean Zen Priest, the other a Chinese Zen Priest. Another friend is a student of Tai Ji, and Praying mantis, and former teacher of Japanese Karate and also teaches Kyudo...he is also a Soto Zen Priest.
There are several Kung Fu schools run by former Shaolin Monks. I use Kung Fu/Tai Chi as a path to teach the Dharma.
FYI: Tai Chi IS Kung Fu. it is just another style, like Soto, Renzai, Korean, Lin Chi Zen
Just as all of the above (it could be argued) fit under the umbrella definition of Qi Gong, or Chi Gung, which means Energy Cultivation....
Interesting thread, some comments are quite insightful.
Yes, we're an eclectic mix of folks here. Some of us actually know a few things!
Tai Chi is only taught slow to become like instinct. Speed it up and it's as deadly as it is beautiful.
I don't get it either.
Yes, it was pretty stanky. Not a smell of fresh sweat but a hardly washed, ground in reek.
Plus it was more grappling than anything else but I like how the "finger pointing to the moon" can get you off your back.
It's hard to get into the act of harming someone but that shouldn't really be the motivation at any point.
You hit the nail on the head there. Martial arts is all about self discipline.
@federica: I am not sure I follow what you are saying. " Tai Chi' is different from Tai Chi Chuan. Tai Chi does not mean Grand Ultimate Boxing. Tai Chi Chuan does mean that. However they are used/thought of by many as the same. Tai Chi/Taiji Chuan is a real Martial Art. "Tai Chi "as used in the West is mostly a meditative dance or just Motion Chan as we call it in some circles. In Japan Chi/Qi ( Chinese) is called "Ki" .
Ohh, perhaps you are referring to the statement about " A better option might be tai chi, it's very difficult to hurt anyone unless they are moving in slow motion" if that is the case, ok, I follow you.
As a martial artist when I see the world Tai Chi used I think they are just using the shorten slang for Tai Chi Chuan. so perhaps my interpretation of the statement was in error. Thanks for pointing that out.
@Brownbuddha , I love it when confusion reigns!
Yes, YOU are right: Tai Chi Chuan = Grand Ultimate Boxing
Tai Chi - IS different, both as a practice and in meaning.
But indicating a difference is educational and worthy of noting.
Good, we cleared THAT up!
A very, very calm and controlled one.
It's the physical manifestation of the emotional and spiritual attacks you receive every day. You learn to respond well, and that translates to your everyday life.
Hm. Perhaps discussing the topic does, online. But the true practice of it is focused on destroying the ego. Which sounds familiar.
Last week I sparred with a student a full decade younger than me who is better at sparring than I am. We wore heavy gloves to practice harder strikes.
We sparred five minutes or less. I got hit a lot and it made me upset. Raw emotion wells up when someone punches you for real. I was OK with being upset. I could look at my emotion objectively and know it was going to take me a minute to move past it and continue. I didn't take it out on my partner or let it overwhelm me. I'm getting better at letting go of it faster. Maybe one day it won't upset me when I'm fully in control of my mind.
It's really interesting what you learn about yourself when practice is most difficult and you practice for the right reasons.
My son does his meditation at his Shotkan classes. None at home, haha. The sit for 10 to 15 mins 3 days a week....before stretching. It's very ordered. This ain't no day care.
They stress that it's all about control. If you can control your body...it controls the mind., and/or the way around..... It's far from 'teaching' fighting, IMO. It also reminds me of a lodge group in some ways, hahaha. for ages 11 and up. You can't go to special training until 16. Anyway...It's worth my 50 bucks a month for an activity for a 13 yr old male with testosterone rollin' in his veins, ...and the lodge aspect is older established men in the community in this group. Very diverse...as far as the South goes. Doctors, military,accountants, black, asian, 3 generations,multi racial families, the whole kit and caboodle!
No complaints from this proud mama!
Go Karate Kofi!
Outstanding @Vastmind
Bravo @ Karate Kofi
The body-mind link is part of yoga, zen posturing, many oriental martial arts and prostration, tea ceremony, flower arranging etc.
The ultimate aim of Karate lies not in victory nor defeat, but in the perfection of the character of its participants. – Gichin Funakoshi
When young does that make sense? We have to win, otherwise we have 'incorrect' or 'ineffective' technique. However when training, we practice as striker and struck. Both perfect.
Go Karate Kofi! @Vastmind
From another Karateka.
I've done martial arts for most of my life- Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu, Judo.. And since I've started down the Buddhist path, I've not found anything that would make the two incompatible.
I am also a (retired) pro wrestler, and I really didn't see anything that made those two incompatible either. The way I look at it, is that I played a family friendly character, did comedy, and did my best to make people happy. When I played a villain, I gave people someone to project their bad feelings on (and they got to be happy when the good guy was beating me up.)
I think, as long as the goal is to alleviate suffering in any way you can, you're probably on the right path. Just my guess though.
Oh yeah, when I did kick boxing, sparring with heavy gloves was part of every session. It was a rubbish style devoted to competition winning. Only did it for a year. As I was already trained, I used to take delight in hitting experienced students twice as hard as they were hitting to demonstrate the mutual benefits of soft sparring.
The Buddhist style I practiced we rarely got hit and if we did it made us smile.
I like what @ajhayes says. We are always fighting/struggling but on whose behalf?
... and now a message from my Sifu
Kick Trump in the pussy
Wow, this was 7-8 years ago, eh? I hope all have been well. Big huggs all around.
Sorry to drag this one out but I just posted a question to Google and this thread came up. I wanted to get some fresh perspectives as a couple of years ago my daughter decided she wanted to try Karate. I thought that was a great idea so all three of us joined. After a bit my wife decided she wants to go back to school so she stopped coming but my daughter and I are still in.
I took the Five Mindfulness Trainings with the Plum Village branch of the Sangha 2 years ago but they are a couple of cities away and so on Wesak this year I am taking the Five Precepts and Three Refuges with the Zen Hermitage here in Hamilton. This brings the same line of questioning.
I feel Karate is not only ok for my Buddhist path but it also adds to it and I trust that if I ever have to use it outside of the dojo, I will not use it out of anger nor will I stop loving the attacker I stand against.
One thing I would add to the thread: the Buddha did condemn theater and games as being a cause for heedlessness, might he not also have been negative about martial arts as training?
I am tending to agree these days that once you end up in a physical fight the important part of the conflict which is a meeting of hearts and minds is already lost. I’ve not been in a fight since my school days, it hasn’t been necessary.
I'm not so sure about that. Karate has its roots in Zen and Bodhidharma is said to have brought martial arts with his Zazen. He founded the first Chan school of Buddhism as well as the first Shaolin school. Many people forget about the Shaolin part though. There is much more to martial arts than just fighting.
I learned all my early fighting tactics from books and Jackie Chan and his kin. 'Zen in the Art of Archery' was one of my favourite books.
For many years I could not understand how Tai Chi Chuan was Grand Ultimate Fist. Despite many teachers, mostly not Chinese ...
https://medium.com/@charlierusso23/the-forgotten-history-of-two-trailblazing-women-who-spread-tai-chi-around-the-world-190940ba10a2
Now my most 'dangerous', advanced technique is metta. Calms elephants.
Equating martial arts with heedlessness is a fundamental misunderstanding of martial arts.
Now if you refer to MMA on television, I'd say you're spot on. Differentiating real martial arts from entertainment that calls itself martial arts is a big challenge to the art.
I am glad you haven't needed to fight. I've practiced martial arts for 16 years (nearly as long as I've been an admin here) and I've never needed to fight either! The real battle is within, and martial arts is another tool to help.
Did you know the person who brought both Buddhism and martial arts to China is the same person? I practice a lineage of martial arts that believes you cannot separate meditation from the art, regardless of your beliefs.