Welcome home! Please contact
lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site.
New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days.
Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Martial Arts and Buddhism - Is it acceptable?
Comments
I have two Martial Art classmates. One is a Korean Zen Priest, the other a Chinese Zen Priest. Another friend is a student of Tai Ji, and Praying mantis, and former teacher of Japanese Karate and also teaches Kyudo...he is also a Soto Zen Priest.
There are several Kung Fu schools run by former Shaolin Monks. I use Kung Fu/Tai Chi as a path to teach the Dharma.
FYI: Tai Chi IS Kung Fu. it is just another style, like Soto, Renzai, Korean, Lin Chi Zen
Just as all of the above (it could be argued) fit under the umbrella definition of Qi Gong, or Chi Gung, which means Energy Cultivation....
Interesting thread, some comments are quite insightful.
Yes, we're an eclectic mix of folks here. Some of us actually know a few things!
Tai Chi is only taught slow to become like instinct. Speed it up and it's as deadly as it is beautiful.
I don't get it either.
Yes, it was pretty stanky. Not a smell of fresh sweat but a hardly washed, ground in reek.
Plus it was more grappling than anything else but I like how the "finger pointing to the moon" can get you off your back.
It's hard to get into the act of harming someone but that shouldn't really be the motivation at any point.
You hit the nail on the head there. Martial arts is all about self discipline.
@federica: I am not sure I follow what you are saying. " Tai Chi' is different from Tai Chi Chuan. Tai Chi does not mean Grand Ultimate Boxing. Tai Chi Chuan does mean that. However they are used/thought of by many as the same. Tai Chi/Taiji Chuan is a real Martial Art. "Tai Chi "as used in the West is mostly a meditative dance or just Motion Chan as we call it in some circles. In Japan Chi/Qi ( Chinese) is called "Ki" .
Ohh, perhaps you are referring to the statement about " A better option might be tai chi, it's very difficult to hurt anyone unless they are moving in slow motion" if that is the case, ok, I follow you.
As a martial artist when I see the world Tai Chi used I think they are just using the shorten slang for Tai Chi Chuan. so perhaps my interpretation of the statement was in error. Thanks for pointing that out.
@Brownbuddha , I love it when confusion reigns!
Yes, YOU are right: Tai Chi Chuan = Grand Ultimate Boxing
Tai Chi - IS different, both as a practice and in meaning.
But indicating a difference is educational and worthy of noting.
Good, we cleared THAT up!
A very, very calm and controlled one.
It's the physical manifestation of the emotional and spiritual attacks you receive every day. You learn to respond well, and that translates to your everyday life.
Hm. Perhaps discussing the topic does, online. But the true practice of it is focused on destroying the ego. Which sounds familiar.
Last week I sparred with a student a full decade younger than me who is better at sparring than I am. We wore heavy gloves to practice harder strikes.
We sparred five minutes or less. I got hit a lot and it made me upset. Raw emotion wells up when someone punches you for real. I was OK with being upset. I could look at my emotion objectively and know it was going to take me a minute to move past it and continue. I didn't take it out on my partner or let it overwhelm me. I'm getting better at letting go of it faster. Maybe one day it won't upset me when I'm fully in control of my mind.
It's really interesting what you learn about yourself when practice is most difficult and you practice for the right reasons.
My son does his meditation at his Shotkan classes. None at home, haha. The sit for 10 to 15 mins 3 days a week....before stretching. It's very ordered. This ain't no day care.
They stress that it's all about control. If you can control your body...it controls the mind., and/or the way around..... It's far from 'teaching' fighting, IMO. It also reminds me of a lodge group in some ways, hahaha. for ages 11 and up. You can't go to special training until 16. Anyway...It's worth my 50 bucks a month for an activity for a 13 yr old male with testosterone rollin' in his veins, ...and the lodge aspect is older established men in the community in this group. Very diverse...as far as the South goes. Doctors, military,accountants, black, asian, 3 generations,multi racial families, the whole kit and caboodle!
No complaints from this proud mama!
Go Karate Kofi!
Outstanding @Vastmind
Bravo @ Karate Kofi
The body-mind link is part of yoga, zen posturing, many oriental martial arts and prostration, tea ceremony, flower arranging etc.
The ultimate aim of Karate lies not in victory nor defeat, but in the perfection of the character of its participants. – Gichin Funakoshi
When young does that make sense? We have to win, otherwise we have 'incorrect' or 'ineffective' technique. However when training, we practice as striker and struck. Both perfect.
Go Karate Kofi! @Vastmind
From another Karateka.
I've done martial arts for most of my life- Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu, Judo.. And since I've started down the Buddhist path, I've not found anything that would make the two incompatible.
I am also a (retired) pro wrestler, and I really didn't see anything that made those two incompatible either. The way I look at it, is that I played a family friendly character, did comedy, and did my best to make people happy. When I played a villain, I gave people someone to project their bad feelings on (and they got to be happy when the good guy was beating me up.)
I think, as long as the goal is to alleviate suffering in any way you can, you're probably on the right path. Just my guess though.
Oh yeah, when I did kick boxing, sparring with heavy gloves was part of every session. It was a rubbish style devoted to competition winning. Only did it for a year. As I was already trained, I used to take delight in hitting experienced students twice as hard as they were hitting to demonstrate the mutual benefits of soft sparring.
The Buddhist style I practiced we rarely got hit and if we did it made us smile.
I like what @ajhayes says. We are always fighting/struggling but on whose behalf?
... and now a message from my Sifu
Kick Trump in the pussy
Wow, this was 7-8 years ago, eh? I hope all have been well. Big huggs all around.
Sorry to drag this one out but I just posted a question to Google and this thread came up. I wanted to get some fresh perspectives as a couple of years ago my daughter decided she wanted to try Karate. I thought that was a great idea so all three of us joined. After a bit my wife decided she wants to go back to school so she stopped coming but my daughter and I are still in.
I took the Five Mindfulness Trainings with the Plum Village branch of the Sangha 2 years ago but they are a couple of cities away and so on Wesak this year I am taking the Five Precepts and Three Refuges with the Zen Hermitage here in Hamilton. This brings the same line of questioning.
I feel Karate is not only ok for my Buddhist path but it also adds to it and I trust that if I ever have to use it outside of the dojo, I will not use it out of anger nor will I stop loving the attacker I stand against.
One thing I would add to the thread: the Buddha did condemn theater and games as being a cause for heedlessness, might he not also have been negative about martial arts as training?
I am tending to agree these days that once you end up in a physical fight the important part of the conflict which is a meeting of hearts and minds is already lost. I’ve not been in a fight since my school days, it hasn’t been necessary.
I'm not so sure about that. Karate has its roots in Zen and Bodhidharma is said to have brought martial arts with his Zazen. He founded the first Chan school of Buddhism as well as the first Shaolin school. Many people forget about the Shaolin part though. There is much more to martial arts than just fighting.
I learned all my early fighting tactics from books and Jackie Chan and his kin. 'Zen in the Art of Archery' was one of my favourite books.
For many years I could not understand how Tai Chi Chuan was Grand Ultimate Fist. Despite many teachers, mostly not Chinese ...
https://medium.com/@charlierusso23/the-forgotten-history-of-two-trailblazing-women-who-spread-tai-chi-around-the-world-190940ba10a2
Now my most 'dangerous', advanced technique is metta. Calms elephants.
Equating martial arts with heedlessness is a fundamental misunderstanding of martial arts.
Now if you refer to MMA on television, I'd say you're spot on. Differentiating real martial arts from entertainment that calls itself martial arts is a big challenge to the art.
I am glad you haven't needed to fight. I've practiced martial arts for 16 years (nearly as long as I've been an admin here) and I've never needed to fight either! The real battle is within, and martial arts is another tool to help.
Did you know the person who brought both Buddhism and martial arts to China is the same person? I practice a lineage of martial arts that believes you cannot separate meditation from the art, regardless of your beliefs.
Funnily enough, a few days after my last post to this thread, my daughter told me she wanted to quit Karate. She likes it still but as she has a learning disability, the other kids "get" things easier than she does and she wants to wait for a couple of years and try again.
It's not as much fun for me if my family isn't into it so I stopped going as well. I miss it a bit but I still practice the katas. To make up for it I've recommitted to the local branch of the Sangha. Since I've recieved the Five Mindfulness Trainings in the Plum Village tradition, they offered me the Bodhisattva precepts which I'm receiving the Sunday before Wesak.
I may get back to Karate but I'll always have martial arts in my blood.
congrats. happy trails.
There I was being hynotised by the Buddha when ...
https://metalearningjournal.wordpress.com/2011/09/06/21/
I think it may be time to sit in the garden and listen to the bees and hoverflies, as they teach me awareness and how to be a tree in a breeze ...
My most defensive posturing will be wearing a hat ...
All that will matter is which of them is still practicing in a year, in 5 years, in 10 years.
My teacher has severe dyslexia and can barely read a word. He has cerebral palsy and used crutches when he started martial arts. Today he’s one of the beat martial artists in the world and holds black belts in multiple arts.
There are 5 ways to become a great martial artist, as he says. You have to do all of them. There are no shortcuts. First is patience. Second is perseverance. Third is to practice hard. Fourth is to practice exactly what you want to perform. Fifth, meditation.
“Learn fast” is conspicuously absent.
He sounds like a fierce cat, fiercely cool. in our time my hero, is bruce lee. he is dao and zen. dao, be water : fluid and adaptable to your enveronment in fighting or ti-che a bowl of soup. in zen, no try,do. the dragon of dao can be sublime in the heart of ultra instinct that goku display in dragonball super.
this speaks of the zen mind. void. in the void,emptyness=fullness. when we empty our mind,and head do, not try, your potential becomes realize. in zen the void is nirvana. on the cushion, just sit, be the void, let everything be, and you be. out and about zen be, be like water adjust to condition. i prefer a handshake, but if your ego wants a fight, tap in my dao cat nature, scratch and claw out of it. but the golden rule serves me well. respect others, others respect you.
For sure. It was a bit disheartening but as a Dad, I had no choice. She took a while to tell me because she didn't want to let me down. She wasn't making friends and gave it a good try for 2 years. I'm very proud that she kept it up as long as she did.
We may go back, who knows?
Have you developed the 'tree hugging kata' for the Plum Villagers? (asking for a friend)
Martial Arts, regardless of school, holds the multiple role of combat training, sport, and development of/enhancing self control and mental and physical agility/clarity.
Back in the days when my knees still worked, I practiced Tai Chi. Now Tai Chi informs my every movement and every step I take is Tai Chi. The practice has been very beneficial, and in ways I had not anticipated.
Interesting @Fosdick
Relaxation is at the heart of tai chi, yoga and other internal martial arts. This ability to recognise disease, pain, tension, stiffness is indeed the gift that keeps giving. I use rolling techniques from Tai Chi and Judo on the wall behind me. Loosens back muscle stiffness.
Breathing is another key technique. I am always checking/using my breathing ...
Relaxation is important, energy is also important. Relaxation can allow energy to flow unimpeded, but if the energy is not there, relaxation is useless. Energy being a big issue for me, I have found this to be true. Therefore it is necessary to arouse energy in some way if it is absent.
A useful supplementary practice can be derived from energy healing practices, Reiki in particular in my case. This discipline envisions energy as entering the body through the crown chakra - an idea which supplies a solid focal point for the practice. Without a focal point, it is very difficult to maintain concentration in the face of the inevitable distractions, but with a focal point the practice becomes pleasurable and difficulties begin to fall away.
The term 'martial arts' is a convenient place marker, but it does not actually define the practices. The practices are what you make of them.