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Re: How is dependent origination different than determinism?
We have had a number of discussions about this topic. A couple past threads:
https://newbuddhist.com/discussion/comment/574653#Comment_574653
https://newbuddhist.com/discussion/25996/things-you-can-control/p1
I've given most of my opinions on them re: free will and causal determinism and I won't rehash them here. The jist of my POV, however, is that while I'm sympathetic to the idea of free will, I've yet to be convinced that we have an agency independent of causality, hence I see dependent co-arising as a description of psycho-physical causal determinism in line with what we currently know about the world. It's primarily concerned with the causes and conditions of suffering, but I think the underlying logic of this complex, non-linear casual chain applies to the outside world as well.
In addition, I've become an admirer of Spinoza and his philosophy expounded in his Ethics. And in this video series in particular, I see a lot of similarities between his ideas on causal determinism and achieving equanimity in part 3 and the Buddha's ideas on causality (esp. kamma) and freedom from suffering:
That said, I did listen to an interesting argument on the biological possibility of free will that has me more open to the idea. If you're interested, you can check it out here:
Jason
Re: How is dependent origination different than determinism?
The whole issue is fraught with a lot of nuance and semantics. So many of the terms have very specific definitions and two people can be using the same word but be talking about slightly or very different things.
Take free will, the sort of common sense notion is akin to the philosophical definition known as libertarian free will. That at any moment we can choose one thing over another. (I heard some breakdown of the percentage of surveyed philosophers and where they stood on the issue recently, if memory serves I think the number of libertarian free willers was at around %20 (don't quote me on that)). But not everyone who talks about free will means that sort of freedom when they use the term. My point being, check definitions.
Currently I'm something of a compatibilist. I believe in causes and conditions, but don't think that quite means we're all on a completely predictable set of train tracks. I hold open the possibility of present moment causation, that in the moment we can be aware of what is arising in the mind and that information acts in the causal chain to allow divergence from strict past determinism. It frees us from Laplace's demon. I also think the common sense notion of the self as being a homunculus separate from the world and biology that makes decisions is a false view that confuses people. Just because a process in your decision making comes from the subconscious doesn't mean that's not you. Just because environmental factors influence decisions doesn't mean they don't affect your unique makeup differently than another's. Practically and morally there is a distinction between being pushed off a diving board and deciding to jump off yourself even though both are deterministic.
Regarding determinism and dependent origination I don't know how much of a distinction, if any, can be made. The word determinism to me has a feeling more in line with fatalism, that the future is set and there's nothing to be done about it. Whereas, for me, dependent origination speaks to "what leads to what" as Joseph Goldstein puts it. It shows practical tools for creating conditions that lead to certain outcomes. Maybe its all in my mind, but one says its out of your control and one says its in your control.
person
Re: Everyone sees the world through cultural glasses
While it might be true that everyone views the world through cultural glasses
those glasses are just descriptions of how we habitually respond to phenomena.
A meditation practice offers one how to start allowing incoming phenomena to freely arise, exist, & depart, past the habitual inclinations of our own identity constructs.
Each moment of meditation that are expressions of selflessness over baser levels of self fortification, then adds to a further dismantling of our human condition's programming interferences.
The degree that we allow our meditative interactions in life to be prioritized over interactions that are based on ego/identity programming, is the same degree that our cultural glasses can be cleared of their former viewing limitations.
how
Re: Everyone sees the world through cultural glasses
@Jeroen said:
I vote as far left of centre as it’s possible to get, by the way. But immigrants are a mixed bag, some of them are hardworking and very nice, and some of them have criminal tendencies. Treat them individually and be as cautious as you would be with any unknown person and you won’t go far wrong.
I believe either now or in your past you were either an immigrant in America or are now an immigrant in the Netherlands.
People are a mixed bag. It is often useful to look at group dynamics in determining policy and there are often differences between one group and another, but there is usually a greater range of people within any group than there is a range of distinction between groups. Its important to always look at people as individuals and not put them in one box or another. Human disposition slides into tribalism very quickly.
Each child in the two participating classrooms — the control classroom & experimental classroom — was randomly assigned a blue or red t-shirt to wear daily as a “work shirt.” Teachers in the control classrooms did not mention the novel color groups. In contrast, teachers in the experimental classrooms made frequent use of the color groups to label children (e.g., “Good morning, Blues and Reds”).
After 4 weeks, children completed measures of intergroup attitudes and behavior. Children in the experimental classroom showed significantly higher levels of ingroup bias than children in the control condition, but even the control group showed inner group bias.
Children stated that if a new child would enter the classroom, they’d choose their group. Children in the experimental classroom rated their group membership as more important than children in the control classroom. And, children in the experimental classroom rated themselves as significantly happier.
person
Re: Everyone sees the world through cultural glasses
@Jeroen said:
I vote as far left of centre as it’s possible to get, by the way. But immigrants are a mixed bag, some of them are hardworking and very nice, and some of them have criminal tendencies. Treat them individually and be as cautious as you would be with any unknown person and you won’t go far wrong.
This can also be said when it comes to immigrants who have to interact/deal with the locals...
"The locals are a mixed bag"
"Some of them (the locals) are hardworking and very nice, and some of them (the locals) have criminal tendencies.
"Treat them individually and be as cautious as you would be with any unknown person and you won’t go far wrong." ....
Shoshin1
Re: Everyone sees the world through cultural glasses
This sort of thing has been on my mind the past several years in relation to the rise of the internet. We're of the age where we remember pre internet days. There was one sort of feeling that it will help bring us closer, now we'll be able to talk to people we never really had the opportunity to before. I think in many ways the outcome has been the opposite.
The internet allowed people to connect in ways over similar interests that wasn't possible before, this site being a good example of that. More so for people with more marginal and ostracized interests and identities. On the one hand, this has actually been a great improvement, on the other we less and less have to interact with people outside of our bubbles. Those cross cultural skills atrophy and we feel less of a need to build bridges, we have our people already. As opposed to travel where we meet with differing "tribes" face to face, online those innate interpersonal skills that unite us all are lacking.
At any rate, I'm far from having any answers or solid position. It just feels as though there is way more cross cultural strife these days and the internet seems to be a big source of that.
I'd say that I think doing one's best to remain open and curious about others and the world around you helps. I'd also say look beyond just ethnicities, being curious about what people are like who hang out at the beach playing volleyball vs what the people are like who spend their evenings at the veteran's hall vs the local food shelf, etc.
Entering the world of online TTRPG's the past few years has been a growth experience for myself in this regard. On the one hand everyone shares a common nerdy interest, on the other I game with a broad range of people, a couple of army grunts in one group, a shy German guy, a male grade school teacher, a grandpa from Atlanta, a young black guy from Indiana who likes to cosplay at nerd Conventions and party, an Arab trans woman from rural NY and recently a female teacher from Puerto Rico.
person
Everyone sees the world through cultural glasses
I found this old Ted Talk interesting...
Everyone sees the world through cultural glasses
Over the years I've had the good fortune to be in a position to travel to many parts of the world ...This Ted talk reminded me of how travel and interacting with the locals can enrich one's life and the lives of others....being in the position to experience cultural differences firsthand...
I should point out that one does not need to travel great distances to experience this...one just needs to take an interest in the different ethnic groups who live in your country...
All too often I've heard (in somewhat negative tones) things like "They are not like us"..."They have no respect for......." and so on...For the most part, the people saying these things more often than not know very little or perhaps nothing about the other people's cultural and traditional differences...
Shoshin1
Re: The longing for enlightenment
The longing for enlightenment - that is the type of longing that has an end unlike the other types of longing that just goes on and on and on.
Kamma that leads to the end of kamma aka right intention.
Chanda Sutta:Desire
"There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — subduing greed & distress with reference to the world. For him, remaining focused on the body in and of itself, any desire for the body is abandoned. From the abandoning of desire, the deathless is realized.
"He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — subduing greed & distress with reference to the world. For him, remaining focused on feelings in & of themselves, any desire for feelings is abandoned. From the abandoning of desire, the deathless is realized.
"He remains focused on the mind in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — subduing greed & distress with reference to the world. For him, remaining focused on the mind in and of itself, any desire for the mind is abandoned. From the abandoning of desire, the deathless is realized.
"He remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — subduing greed & distress with reference to the world. For him, remaining focused on mental qualities in & of themselves, any desire for mental qualities is abandoned. From the abandoning of desire, the deathless is realized."
Re: How is dependent origination different than determinism?
One view in a nutshell says that..
Dependent Origination intricately describes the interlinking causes and effects that result and propel all of life's suffering.
Buddhism uses Dependent Origination to show us where we can unlink from this process to result in suffering's diminishment. Here in a Buddhist practice, your free will to continue with or to delink in this process determines how much or how little suffering you will create.
Determinism proposes that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to one's free will.
A view that says that free will is irrelevant to life's outcome simply doesn't understand suffering's true causes.
how
Re: Two minutes of meditation?
Is one or two minutes of meditation, in the office or the car or the doctor's office, an actual meditation?
Yes ...as long as you don't close your eye while driving ...Thus have I heard, this can be a bit tricky 
On a more serious note... From what I gather meditation practice is a 24/7/365 thing, it is not restricted to cushion time....it's good to pop back into the present moment every now and again throughout the day...
In less than one minute one can do a quick body scan which helps to bring one's wandering thoughts back from the there and then into the present, the here and now...
Shoshin1