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@Jeroen said:

@person said:
I think people here are wise and experienced enough to avoid the cults. But I'll say for any lurkers or potential Googlers, that in addition to good teachers there are a lot of toxic, harmful teachers and groups one can uncritically give their love and trust to that will lead to misery.

In my early spiritual years I knew someone who claimed a guru she followed harmed her psychically and she was now in a physically drained and disabled state. Sogyal Rinpoche, Sasaki Roshi, Asaram Bapu, Jim Jones, etc, etc.

It’s very arguable whether the Osho movement is a cult. It is said that the characteristics of a cult include that they make it difficult to leave and with Osho that’s totally not true, people are free to come and go as they please.

Something for your reflection. I said you were lucky to have been raised in Osho's commune rather than David Koresh's and none of the abusive guru's I listed were Osho. So any imputation of that sentiment in my words solely comes from your own psyche. I imagine the cult label has been thrown at you at times through your life. I'm just saying its probably a place in need of healing and growth.

@person said:
Something for your reflection. I said you were lucky to have been raised in Osho's commune rather than David Koresh's and none of the abusive guru's I listed were Osho. So any imputation of that sentiment in my words solely comes from your own psyche. I imagine the cult label has been thrown at you at times through your life. I'm just saying it’s probably a place in need of healing and growth.

Absolutely true. A site I hang out on has quite a few ex-sannyasins, and one of the first things they advised me to do was read The Guru Papers, a well-known book that is all about cults. Cult awareness has been growing a lot in American circles recently especially.

But I refuse to let my memories of events past be coloured by a modern way of looking at things which tries to make things fit neatly into a certain box. Osho’s following could certainly be called a worldwide movement, but it lacks a number of key characteristics typical of cults.

@Jeroen said:

@person said:
What you're describing sounds like what Tibetan Buddhists consider guru devotion. They generally think of it as the swiftest and easiest path. There are great stories like Tilopa and Naropa or Milarepa and Marpa. They do say to carefully examine a teacher before entering a relationship like this, as a bad teacher can lead you astray and do harm. Which I suppose is a sort of rationality as a gateway to letting that go.

You can’t say that I carefully examined him, by any means. If I had, my natural caution might have turned me away. But by just jumping in the deep end and saying “yes” age 6 and following my parents I did not do too badly.

I'd say you were lucky. What if your parents joined David Koresh instead?

I do wonder how many great zen stories start with the student carefully and rationally examining the prospective master, not many I’m guessing. I think it’s simpeler than “carefully examining” with rational means. Osho said “any master in whose presence you can fly high will be good”, and while Osho was definitely that, there was love too.

In the TB examples I gave there really wasn't much of an examination either. I think people here are wise and experienced enough to avoid the cults. But I'll say for any lurkers or potential Googlers, that in addition to good teachers there are a lot of toxic, harmful teachers and groups one can uncritically give their love and trust to that will lead to misery.

In my early spiritual years I knew someone who claimed a guru she followed harmed her psychically and she was now in a physically drained and disabled state. Sogyal Rinpoche, Sasaki Roshi, Asaram Bapu, Jim Jones, etc, etc.

What you're describing sounds like what Tibetan Buddhists consider guru devotion. They generally think of it as the swiftest and easiest path. There are great stories like Tilopa and Naropa or Milarepa and Marpa. They do say to carefully examine a teacher before entering a relationship like this, as a bad teacher can lead you astray and do harm. Which I suppose is a sort of rationality as a gateway to letting that go.