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@Passaddhi said:

@yagr Thank you for sharing your experience. How did you make it work ? Did you give up on Buddhism temporarily and pretended you believed in a God ?

How...? Mostly by making every mistake I could. I asked a lot of questions - and as anyone around here can tell you, I am not a star at understanding the answers. Odd that I keep asking questions... Anyway, going on a tangent - it should be fun...

Early on I was told that I could make the group my Higher Power. That didn't make a lot of sense to me so, I decided it would make more sense by asking questions because I hadn't yet learned that this doesn't help me. Then they told me to 'turn everything over to my Higher Power'. Since I was unemployed, unemployable, and truly concerned about how I was going to pay my bills that month, I dropped my bills in the basket as it went around. "What the hell, yagr?" they asked. "I had some fears about how I was going to pay my bills so I turned it over to my Higher Power - the group." It was explained that this isn't how it works...I still don't see the inconsistency. But, let's get back on track...

As any Buddhist will tell you, in one way or another, the only thing we can offer you is a 'finger pointing to the moon'. Truth cannot be taught - only experienced. That which is the true Tao cannot be spoken. Insert your own favorite line because ultimately, the idea that the truth can only be pointed to or approximated is expressed in a myriad of ways but they all imply the same thing. So, this 12-step program was created by a bunch of folks who got a hand me down spirituality bequeathed to them through a hundred generations that began with a bunch of superstitious illiterate goat herders. I am not judging them for being superstitious illiterate goat herders - just suggesting that the guard rails for 'pointing to the moon' were narrower back then. So Jesus, in my opinion, pointed to the moon in a way that these folks could ...well, maybe not understand - but have a prayer of understanding.

So, they took his teaching - then played a 2000 year game of telephone by passing on ideas that they really didn't understand - and, just like me (and probably you) when people don't really understand what is, they write a narrative about it and that narrative isn't Truth - it's a facsimile or shadow of Truth. We tell ourselves a story about our experience because in this way, we are able to build a monument to our experience, examine it, fret over it...have the illusion of control over our experience. Anyway...

Ultimately, what I hung my hat on in order to mix with any predominantly Christian group that strives for spirituality is this: Jesus said, "I am the Truth, the way..." I believe that he was enlightened and so, I can buy the fact that he was 'Truth'. His followers are grasping at Truth but not really understanding it (imo). I get that - I do that, too. So I just decided that they misunderstood Truth differently than I misunderstood Truth and we had that in common...and that would be enough. I called truth - Dharma, they called it Jesus...and we're both wrong. That makes us brothers...which is Truth.

I'm sure that's clear as mud...but there was a lot of surrender in there. Surrender is acceptance of what is - and what is, is only here/now. i.e., when I say, "Hi, I'm yagr and I'm an addict" for instance, this isn't true acceptance, this is a narrative I tell me about myself and then I go and do something really silly like believe it. Trying to capture a Higher Power and stuff it into a box so I can have my narrative about the experience and feel like I have a measure of control over the experience of life - is a recipe for a lot of suffering. How could it not be? Try to stick a size 15 foot into a size 12 shoe and there will be pain. Try to stuff the infinite into a finite box causes suffering too - and while you might get your foot in that show with a lot of pain and effort - you'll never manage the latter so it is pain and suffering for no purpose.

I know I can be wordy - I hope there are some in there that are helpful.

@DairyLama said:

. You're not NB.

Didn't you see Jason's titles by his name: God, Emperor, Moderator? That pretty much means he's not only Spiritual and Temporal Ruler (like the Dalai Lama used to be), but also Honcho Moderator. We do prostrations to him as part of our practice.