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@Shoshin1 said:

I see practicing the Dharma as a form of mind training/sharpening ones skills( or if you like real intelligence) so to speak ...nothing more ...nothing less....

I think zeroing in on real intelligence, as Shoshin is doing here, is a very important point.

But real intelligence is really not so easy to define, and I think lack of clarity in the definition leads to some of the disparities in thought/expression we're seeing in this conversation. But I think we'd agree that intelligence and creativity are two different things. Even if we can't define them with precise semantics, I think we all understand the difference between them.

And it's that word, creativity, that I think belongs in some of the thoughts above. If I were to take rigid disciplined training in a specific realm, assuming that I would be inclined to put up with such, then I think intelligence would help me in the training, or at least not hinder the training and not be impacted/reduced by the training. But creativity, on the other hand, would more likely be vulnerable to training, in a negative way. If I am trained "do it THIS way" or "think about it THIS way" then that is mutually exclusive with creativity but synergistic with intelligence.

I'm not saying formal training is bad; quite the contrary. In many many instances it is the only viable path. For example, many decades ago I trained in calculus. I didn't CREATE calculus of course; I'm not Newton or Leibnitz. Calculus was very well developed, and the methods of teaching it highly refined, long before I ever walked into that classroom. My task was simply to become schooled in its ways.

Some marvel that The Beatles were able to create such rich beautiful music despite a complete lack of music training or even the ability to read and write notation. But The Beatles themselves said that their creativity was specifically BECAUSE of their lack of training. No formally trained musician would ever have started that staccato Em violin riff in Eleanor Rigby with an A on the downbeat. We have that beautiful piece in our world because of creativity and a lack of training.

I don't think there's a universal Yes or No whether training is valuable or desirable. It depends on the desired outcome. If I want to create a grand painting in a new style all my own, and I have a vision of it in my head, then I'm not going to put up with you standing next to me telling me how to blend the colors on my palette. On the other hand, if I want to pass the geography exam, then yes, please do tell me all the questions that will be on the exam, and all the answers, and I'll memorize them before the exam; no creativity needed. Thank you professor.

So, how does this apply to Life? I think the Middle Way is for when you just want to get peacefully down the path without abrading your shoulders on the fringes. De-dukkhanate your vocabulary, stay on the centerline, keep smiling, lay off the late parties and intoxicants, and get a haircut. I think for most of us, this is the best path for most of the things we encounter. But if you want to BUILD a path, rather than be guided down the old one, then don't let yourself get molded by rote. Bump into walls. Bash through them. Revel in the ecstasy. But you won't want to do this for everything (some people won't want to do it this way for ANYTHING). For most things, just listen to the shaved-head guy in the robe, and things will go more easily. He is passing the wisdom of the centuries on to you. Heed well.

Where some find joy in a structured garden, others find it in the wild mess. Weeds to some, flowers to others. In the end, on this planet, Mother Nature trains all.

Today I don't think structure is for me. Though I find those who keep it admirable.

Discipline is freedom. Flexibility is freedom: rising early, sleeping enough, eating well, exercising regularly (or at least keeping active) and meditating daily. Sounds as clear as water being essential for life!

Some people might do otherwise and lead great and happy lifes, but the following guidelines are a good starting point.

Some people will benefit, some will not.
This is our world. Nothing constant, constant change; yet amongst all these waves a few regularities do arise.

Dying is easy.
How to live without suffering is the hard part.

Quoting Mark Twain-

I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.

I usually think of the word "training" as that consistent effort of being present where one's past habituated inclinations of the ego or our identity commonly oppose being so.

I like what he says at the beginning of the video...

"A mind that is not well trained, suffering will follow
A mind that is well trained, happiness and peace will follow"

~Nick Keomahavong~

A simple truth...

@Jeroen said:

My experience has been different, I’ve found that training is the death of real intelligence. Training is the instilling of certain habits and automatisms, which leads to functioning at a lower level of awareness. In order to be more aware, more in the moment, one should learn to disregard the automatisms that society trains into one.

It's all about the middle way @Jeroen and not taking things to the extremes ...

From what I gather, a well trained mind just means a more skillful one ... one which is more aware/sharp/alert/attentive to the moment...

I see practicing the Dharma as a form of mind training/sharpening ones skills( or if you like real intelligence) so to speak ...nothing more ...nothing less....

According to Osho, dying is not such a big affair, we make it something more than it needs to be. Instead, living is more important — celebrating, being creative, loving.