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You Atheists have no hope. What keeps you alive?

MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
edited April 2011 in General Banter


I think Edward Tarte answered this question VERY well. "...I strive to relieve human suffering... I hope to leave the world a little better place than it would have been." He said this, among other things. Comments?
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Comments

  • edited April 2011
    hm..... i guess atheists just go on living life, milking their attachments, too afraid of death to consider suicide...

    But everybody is different so i'd hate to make such a general statement about atheists. they are human and have passions just like everyone else
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    edited April 2011
    Buddhism = Atheistic. Just saying.
  • Yes I'm aware but Buddhists and people who consider themselves Atheists are two different crowds, i was discussing the latter.
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    Yes I'm aware but Buddhists and people who consider themselves Atheists are two different crowds, i was discussing the latter.
    I consider myself both.
  • Sometimes it is not so much about hope or lack thereof really, you would have to be more specific as to what you mean. Sometimes someone will have a negative experience with the idea of religion and decide that it it is all useless. This happens to some gay people in particular who suffer with religious groups who demonize them. Some people think more scientifically than intuitively and may be very hopeful people who research cures for disease and help their communities. They can lead very active, positive lives.

    I find the unified field theory very interesting and this is the best explanation I can give for my abstract concept of what everyone calls "God".
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Interesting.
  • I am pretty sure a lot of us were once atheists.. I was a hard ass atheist until the age of 20, and would mock any religon or religious people. I was very ignorant when it came to that, but now I respect any religious faith or religious person for they all have the ability to bring peace and happiness in the world.

    Even atheists, you just have to see that they are beings that suffer like the rest of us and act under delusion/ignorance.
  • image
  • ZaylZayl Veteran
    edited April 2011
    I'm still an atheist to an extent, even though I am a Buddhist. I think, the reason I am able to continue on is that I recognize the beauty in the simplicity of this life. I do not try to spend time worrying about what comes after, rather I enjoy the here and now. People show me the wonderful sunset and ask me how I can be an atheist after seeing it, but I feel that seeing it is why I am an atheist.

    If I am making any sense here? People try to attribute all of these complicated reasons and lessons for human existence, but I ignore them and simply spend the time being kind to others and improving myself and how I act. Whether you believe in reincarnation or not, or in an afterlife or not... cherish this time you spend here, and do your best to improve the lives of others in a way the helps them, but also teaches them how to help themselves. Doing so will also make you see how to help yourself in the same way.
  • hahaha, wow. Now that is perfect example of delusion
  • Not what Zayl said for the record, I was referring to that helen lookers post ... O.o
  • well my gf is athiest, and she's more positive than I am
  • I'm still an atheist to an extent, even though I am a Buddhist. I think, the reason I am able to continue on is that I recognize the beauty in the simplicity of this life. I do not try to spend time worrying about what comes after, rather I enjoy the here and now. People show me the wonderful sunset and ask me how I can be an atheist after seeing it, but I feel that seeing it is why I am an atheist.

    If I am making any sense here? People try to attribute all of these complicated reasons and lessons for human existence, but I ignore them and simply spend the time being kind to others and improving myself and how I act. Whether you believe in reincarnation or not, or in an afterlife or not... cherish this time you spend here, and do your best to improve the lives of others in a way the helps them, but also teaches them how to help themselves. Doing so will also make you see how to help yourself in the same way.
    I think you are pretty spot on myself.
  • The Buddha taught many truths, but he labelled just four of them as NOBLE Truths. There's no mention of god in any of these Four Noble Truths, so maybe trying to affirm or deny the existence of a protector god is a distraction. Maybe that makes me neither a theist or athiest.

    Going a little off-topic: Yesterday, while paging through a buddhist book in a local bookstore, a gentleman approached me and said that the only way to heaven is through Jesus and there is no other way. I was taken aback and before I could respond, he strolled away. So, there are people that tell me that I'm going to burn in hell. :rarr:
  • I am an atheist :) but then again whi knows people change sometimes. I try not to focus too much on things like this. I am doing the right thing right now and I won't let my lack of Godliness hold me back from being a good person. ^_^
  • I would still somewhat consider myself atheist even with my beliefs with Shinto, and being Buddhist. I think that seeing the universe as something that had to grow over billions of years into what it is now is amazing, and that if it was just the whim of a "god" it really degrates the beauty of the universe.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    i personally believe in God but to each his own =)
    Me too. And at the same time, I try to respect the beliefs that different people have.

  • The Universe is just here there is no mystery, end of story :rockon:
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    The Universe is just here there is no mystery, end of story :rockon:
    There is no mystery to you. Millions and millions of people still see the mystery.

  • Maybe Buddhism is more of a pantheism than an atheism?

    "Pantheism is the view that the Universe (Nature) and God are identical.[1] Pantheists thus do not believe in a personal, anthropomorphic or creator god. The word derives from the Ancient Greek: πᾶν (pan) meaning ‘all’ and θεός (theos) meaning ‘God’. As such, Pantheism denotes the idea that “God” is best seen as a way of relating to the Universe.[2] Although there are divergences within Pantheism, the central ideas found in almost all versions are the Cosmos as an all-encompassing unity and the sacredness of Nature."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism

    What do you guys think?
  • ZaylZayl Veteran
    Possibly, Vajra, however I do not see the universe as a God, I simply try to see it for what it is. It is miraculous and mundane at exactly the same time.
  • What are you talking about? Every Buddhist is an Atheist.
  • VajraheartVajraheart Veteran
    edited April 2011
    "Zayl 9:10PM
    Possibly, Vajra, however I do not see the universe as a God, I simply try to see it for what it is. It is miraculous and mundane at exactly the same time."

    Right, not a "god" in the sense of Monotheism, but merely as a creative principle as a whole. As in... "we" are all collectively god, co-creating, co-originating, co-manifesting on and on and on in an eternal cycle? The entire mass or cosmos manifests samsaric and nirvanic realms, sentient beings, bodhisattvas, gods, dogs, cats, buddhas... over and over again, churning, cycling... "creating" as a mass of interconnected parts of which we all are.
  • ZaylZayl Veteran
    Hmm, that seems a little bit complicated for me to worry about. So, I wont :D
  • Hmm, that seems a little bit complicated for me to worry about. So, I wont :D
    LOL! Ok, it's only complicated through conceptual elaboration. The realization is quite simple though, or neither simple nor complex... it's just a recognition.

    I think this is what theories of "tathagatagarbha" or "dharmakaya" and Buddhist traditions such as Dzogchen try to point to with the understanding of "samantabadhra." That though Buddhism conceptually is an atheism, it is also more of a pantheism experientially rather than an "absolute" atheism. As I feel the concept of "interdependent origination" declares inter-relative creativity.
  • What are you talking about? Every Buddhist is an Atheist.
    Not all
  • ZaylZayl Veteran
    perhaps it could be both? I'm an Athiest but I still view this existence as sacred.
  • perhaps it could be both? I'm an Athiest but I still view this existence as sacred.
    Yes, it's still empty of inherent existence, so in no way a "theism" in the sense of a mono-theism. But, there is creativity happening.
  • LOL! Obviously!! Of which you can blame the universe for, of which we are a part and are what makes it up. All us sentient beings, elements and the Buddhas, etc.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    Both belief and disbelief provide a good springboard in Buddhist practice. Both inspire action and Buddhist practice is just that: Practice or action. So for my money theism and atheism may provide a good starting point. Theism and atheism -- same stuff, different day.

    But over time, and with practice, belief and disbelief give way to experience. Experience trumps belief and disbelief equally. Where belief and disbelief concern themselves with with something else, Buddhism concerns itself with this action, this moment, this something that is not something else.

    Just my take.



  • The buddha taught that there is no beginning or end to the universe, it is just there and has collapsed, reformed, collapsed reformed over and over and will carry on doing so for eternity. To dwell on such matters isn't really beneficial to your life, let me know when you are going to the other end of the universe and I will call shot gun ;)
  • let me know when you are going to the other end of the universe and I will call shot gun ;)
    LOL!! Very good.
  • The finger puppet is Abrahamic God.

    http://www.sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2007-10-08.gif
    Funny! Thanks.
  • Buddhism concerns itself with this action, this moment, this something that is not something else.

    Just my take.



    Yes, but it also recognizes it's nature, or it's conditions for being.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    What are you talking about? Every Buddhist is an Atheist.
    It isn't often that I say someone here on the site is wrong, but in making that statement, you are wrong. Many Buddhists also believe in God. And in fact, I have had conversations with Buddhist monks in Thailand who have said, "You can be Buddhist and Christian."

  • Hmm, I watched a very interesting programme this week which discussed how the Judea-christian (is that how to spell it) religion was probably not always monotheistic and arguments were presented with good evidence.

    To me, such arguments support why I am atheist.....basically because teachings are not the words of god but human records of dogmatic story telling.

    Saying that, Buddha's teachings have been corrupted by human interpretation, differences in translation etc etc so we shouldn't be too smug. After all, we have different traditions in Buddhism for exactly the same reason as other 'religions'.

    Although I ticked the 'buddhist' box on the recent census in the UK, I feel that it is unimportant to attach a label to what I believe. After all, I have not always been a Buddhist and may not always be. I'd also rather others looked upon me through my actions, unaffected by their interpretation of the label attached to me. Therefore,

    Spock is Spock
  • What are you talking about? Every Buddhist is an Atheist.
    It isn't often that I say someone here on the site is wrong, but in making that statement, you are wrong. Many Buddhists also believe in God. And in fact, I have had conversations with Buddhist monks in Thailand who have said, "You can be Buddhist and Christian."

    Well, you can use Buddhist wisdom in your life and meditate and be Christian, yes. But considering Buddhist is all about experiencing truth for yourself and not about belief...there is room for a lot of contradiction.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran


    Well, you can use Buddhist wisdom in your life and meditate and be Christian, yes. But considering Buddhist is all about experiencing truth for yourself and not about belief...there is room for a lot of contradiction.

    I would say there is a lot of room for differing views.

  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    Infinite views are welcome in Buddhism. But if all anyone is interested in is views, why bother with Buddhism in the first place?
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    Infinite views are welcome in Buddhism.
    Not quite.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an10/an10.093.than.html

    I thought the responses to the views expressed were quite welcoming. How is anyone supposed to get things right if they can't first get them wrong, acknowledge it, and then put this new understanding into practice?

    Without screw-ups like me, how could Buddhism be a world-class activity?

  • Infinite views are welcome in Buddhism.
    Not quite.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an10/an10.093.than.html

    I thought the responses to the views expressed were quite welcoming. How is anyone supposed to get things right if they can't first get them wrong, acknowledge it, and then put this new understanding into practice?

    Without screw-ups like me, how could Buddhism be a world-class activity?

    Oh. I see what you were getting at there. You were saying that we -start out- with infinite views and then discard those that do not lead to the cessation of suffering?
  • I am really looking forward to take part in this conversation and read all the posts.
    In the moment, I have to go back to my previous posts and answer comments directed at me.

    Kind people took their time to do it. THANK YOU. I feel I have to respond ....even to say : :grr:

    ;)
  • DaozenDaozen Veteran
    As Buddhists, the idea of God is not necessary, so why bother?

    What does this idea add to your Buddhist practice?
  • ^I'm guessing, security. And buddhism is all about living with no sense of outer security.


    Just replying, not to attack anyone, but to expound on what I said earlier on the thread.
  • B5CB5C Veteran
    I don't believe in a god or gods.

    Also why do you need an imaginary authority figure to have an happy life?
  • edited April 2011
    I don´t have a special believe anymore about what is happening when we die or if God exist or not. In the past, I read a lot about the bardos and rebirths and so on in tibetan buddhism and I believed in it. Now I don´t have a special believe, it is only concepts trying to describe what isn´t describable. We can´t know for sure about anything. I choose not to listen on anybody who thinks he knows about life after death. We can never be sure.

    So my belief is "I don´t know, we will see". It feels lovely to rest in the unknown and look at nature and be amazed about the mystery of life. That´s freedom. I just humble myself to life whatever the outcome will be. Life is amazing and beautiful.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran

    I think Edward Tarte answered this question VERY well. "...I strive to relieve human suffering... I hope to leave the world a little better place than it would have been." He said this, among other things. Comments?
    This is exactly what I was going to say.
  • What are you talking about? Every Buddhist is an Atheist.
    Really? Crap, guess I'd better get off at the next stop then.
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