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Vipassana in the United States
Friends:
I really like this article:
Insight Meditation in the United States: Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness
by Gil Fronsdal
from Charles S. Prebish and Kenneth K. Tanaka, THE FACES OF BUDDHISM IN AMERICA,
Chapter 9
& was wondering if anyone would like to discuss it.
b@eze
Bucky
http://www.insightmeditationcenter.o...-of-happiness/
I really like this article:
Insight Meditation in the United States: Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness
by Gil Fronsdal
from Charles S. Prebish and Kenneth K. Tanaka, THE FACES OF BUDDHISM IN AMERICA,
Chapter 9
& was wondering if anyone would like to discuss it.
b@eze
Bucky
http://www.insightmeditationcenter.o...-of-happiness/
0
Comments
Who the frack is Miley Cyrus?
plezeB@eze
Bucky
Worse, what you said is conceited, false & pathetic.
:-/
Mindfulness does not derive from vipassana. Vipassana, if one is lucky, derives from mindfulness.
Vipassana is to see clearly the Three Characteristics, the Four Noble Truths, etc.
If you wish to learn about vipassana, try the following from a Thai Asian, rather than this bubble-gum watered down American supermarket Wal-Mart Buddhism
http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books3/Buddhadasa_Anapanasati-Fourth_Tetra.pdf
No idea
:eek2:
The following video can set us straight about the delusions of "certifying stream enterers".
The following video can set us straight.
Connectedness, compassion & loving-kindness cannot bring liberation.
Connectedness, compassion & loving-kindness cannot bring total peace.
Unwholesome and wholesome are mundane teachings of the Buddha, unrelated to liberation.
The Buddha made this clear when he distinguished betweem supramundane (lokuttara) and mundane (lokiya) dhamma.
The teachings of Joseph Goldstein are beneficial for morally disfunctional Americans but are unrelated to the essence of the Buddhist teachings.
Certainly, the above excerpt shows Americans do not do it "better".
It is just adapting some peripheral Buddhist principles to the needs of the audience, which, as I said in the beginning, is fine.
In Asia, most of society is not disfunctional.
I listened to an American bhikkhuni recently trying to teach her audience about the connectedness of Asian relationships.
:buck:
The doctrine of 100% unconditional love isn't exactly found in the Jewish teachings now, is it? At least not in the OT. Such the reason for so many Jews being attracted to Buddhism.
As for the rest of your post, it is non-sense.
There is nothing in the article that is esoteric nor did the Buddha have any esoteric teachings.
As I said, my impression has been for many years that the vipassana movt in the USA is mostly a psychotherapy movt for morally disfunctional Americans that have pyschological issues due to an absence of clear moral values & behaviours and an incapacity to let go of ego due to heavy childhood conditioning about needing to be "successful" & "superior".
It is an observable point that the lay practitioners that declare themselves to be arahants, despite still engaging in worldly activities such as sexual copulation, are for the most part, if not exclusively, American and from the "vipasana" movt, eg, Daniel Ingram
Regards
However, this does not occur because your mind has some intellectual deficiency.
It occurs probably because of a lack of learning and also, I must say, imo, due to a heavy ethnomaorphtryustycistrisic bias.
The Buddha instructed ordinary laypeople, let alone path practitioners, to develop a mind free from bias or prejudice (agati), of which there are four kinds, namely, bias due to love, bias due to hate, bias due to fear and bias due to ignorance.
I have noticed a struggle in your posts to accomodate non-American ideas, such as regarding the self-absorbed cravings of a rogue nun to be more important than the cultural values of Thailand that are designed to prevent their society from degenerating into the moral & social kaos that is American culture; a culture causing its individuals to flock to various forms of psychotherapy, including Buddhist psychotherapy.
The core Buddha-Dhamma teachings are not about love. The Buddha-Dhamma love teachings are just the basics for ordinary folks living in the secular world of myriad relationships.
Regards
Second, IF meditation is done correctly, the truths of the Four Noble Truths and the 8-Fold Path will make itself apparent to them over time.
However, I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. If someone meditates without gaining insight into the 4nt or 8fp, then something is wrong.
Could you explain whether the ideas the nun presented or her character were impeachable? If the ideas then could you present your argument for why those ideas are flawed? And if the character then why is that relevant to the ideas? Why do you think that psychotherapy is responsible for moral and social chaos? Doesn't therapy help integrate the personality resulting in well adjusted people, at least going more in that direction? Are you saying that nobody benefits from therapy? If so then why do they pay over a hundred dollars an hour in order to not benefit?
I do not recall saying or inferring psychotherapy is responsible for moral and social chaos. I do recall saying moral and social chaos is responsible for the need for psychotherapy. I am certainly not saying nobody benefits from therapy. I would never say that.
I was simply saying Buddhist teachings that help integrate the personality are not the core Buddhist teachings therefore not "better" as was implied.
As for the nun's impeachment:
(1) A mind of emptiness was not displayed. In Thailand, this is regarded as a waste of alms food. Despite many superstitions to the contrary, a monk/nun must earn their alms food through practise. The Thai people largely financed & supported the monastery the nun lived in for many years so such an impeachment accords to Thai views.
(2) The Western Forest Sangha system was described as "harmful patriarchy". So monks were accused of engaging in harmful behaviour, most notably Ajahn Sumedho, who was the leader of the "harmful" monastery that was "escaped" from, despite the nun living there by her own free will.
(3) Ajahn Sumedho was later praised. This shows contradiction, confusion &/or an unwholesome motive. Theravada Bhikkhunis must earn their livelihood in a wholesome way, which means to not push worldly & personal agendas to gain followers & benefactors. It might be OK for HHDL to attract followers who have a contempt for communism but such behaviour is not befitting of a Theravada Bhikkhuni. The nun is simply feeding the defilements & ignorance of her listeners.
These are some of my grounds for "impeachment".
This bullchit needs to stop, now! The monks & nuns caught up in the bhikkhuni matter are demonising the Thai Sangha in the minds of their unknowledgable supporters. They are engaged in "wedge politics" as a way to gain supporters & benefactors.
Kind regards
:hiding:
DD & Jeffrey: The impeachment is a thought experiment for this thread, right? IOW, does an actual impeachment process like the one you've presented here exist?
Regards,
bucky
BuckyG, I meant the word impeachment not as it is reflected of the president for example. I think the process for the impeachment comes from the word impeachment which originally had a broader meaning of 'to bring an accusation against'.
I wasn't clear. I meant impeachment PROCESSES in Wats. No worries. I'll check out the thread on what to do w/unruly nuns & monks.
Metta,
Bucky
That's true.
Metta
bucky
Gil Fronsdal HIMSELF knows AND teaches exactly what you stated (quote above) regarding the point of insight. Most, if not all, of his teachers were Asian. Are you trying to demonize Gil just because he's an American? You're not suggesting Buddhadasa's anapanasati teachings are the only ones worth following, are you?
Metta,
bucky
Who do you think's being demonized?
Metta
bucky
Metta
bucky
I find the following phrases you've used in this thread intentionally inflammatory & accusatory:
-"bubble-gum watered down American supermarket Wal-Mart Buddhism;"
-"blind faith & mindless guru worship"
-"morally disfunctional Americans"
-"Americans...have pyschological issues due to an absence of clear moral values & behaviours and an incapacity to let go of ego due to heavy childhood conditioning"
-"the cultural values of Thailand...are designed to prevent their society from degenerating into the moral & social kaos that is American culture; a culture causing its individuals to flock to various forms of psychotherapy"
You owe the Americans on this site an apoligy.
Metta
bucky
Your criticisms of American culture often remind me of Amma Thanasanti Bhikkhuni's criticisms of American culture. This seems incompatible with your contention that shes just another self-absorbed, American, feminist, cry baby-- doesn't it?
Metta,
bucky
Many members of this forum will testify to that.
But lets not get into nationalistic feelings.
'apologise to all americans???'
'be nice to all earthlings' is much better.
to Robina Courtin & ajahn brahm?
When I got to the part of Ven. Pasanno's talk on Visakha Puja (http://www.viet.net/anson/ebud/ebdha287.htm) where he says,
"The Buddha's quest for enlightenment was inextricably bound to love and compassion for others," it reminded me of your You seem to be in disagreement with Ven. Pasanno here.
Metta,
bg
The Buddha was certainly motivated by compassion but not by "idiot compassion"
What I posted was intended to free your mind from ethnousyeghhfigagia
With metta-karuna
DD is blameless.
:om: