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Do you think that Buddhism is an idea/theory or a religion?

10jellis10jellis
edited May 2011 in Faith & Religion
Many people have different opinions on this, whats yours?

Comments

  • VajraheartVajraheart Veteran
    The Buddha taught the 4 noble truths, the 8 fold path, the various precepts for monks and lay practitioners, debated with contemporaries that held views not in accordance with his Dharma. So... for all intents and purposes, it's a spiritual tradition.
  • santhisouksanthisouk Veteran
    Good answer Vajraheart. You are indeed on the path.

    metta
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Personally, I see it practiced as a religion by most people. To some people it is a philosophy.
  • SabreSabre Veteran
    edited May 2011
    Do you call a brick a fruit or a vegetable? ;)

    With metta,
    Sabre
  • 10jellis10jellis
    The Buddha taught the 4 noble truths, the 8 fold path, the various precepts for monks and lay practitioners, debated with contemporaries that held views not in accordance with his Dharma. So... for all intents and purposes, it's a spiritual tradition.
    I think that depends on what type of Buddhist you are.

  • 10jellis10jellis
    Do you call a brick a fruit or a vegetable? ;)

    With metta,
    Sabre
    So @sabre, your saying it's neither?
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    I think Vajraheart summed it up quite well, at least this is how I view Buddhism.
  • VajraheartVajraheart Veteran
    edited May 2011


    I think that depends on what type of Buddhist you are.

    No one should feel forced into Buddhism. One should integrate into it to the degree that they are ready. As one studies deeper and practices more, the form of which Buddhism takes in a persons life will change accordingly, and naturally.

    I personally practice Dzogchen which has a different view of the Buddhas teachings then lets say, Theravada. I am a Mahayana practitioner within the Vajrayana form, so my lay practitioners precepts are going to be different from that of a Theravadin.

    But, the Buddha said that his Dharma was defined by the experiential insight of dependent origination as this insight is the source of his teachings on the 4 noble truths and the 8 fold path, as relative in meaning as they are... they are based upon the first of the 8 fold path, "right view" which is opposed to "wrong view." So, it definitely differentiates itself from other traditions in that sense. Even though the Buddha himself did also teach forms of Brahmayoga via the 4 brahmaviharas for the sake of those without the capacity to understand dependent origination, but in those instances, he wasn't teaching the complete Buddhadharma, he was just helping people according to their particular needs.
  • 10jellis10jellis
    I agree. It's a bit difficult to sum up Buddhism as a whole.
  • VajraheartVajraheart Veteran
    I agree. It's a bit difficult to sum up Buddhism as a whole.
    There is the necessity for different approaches dependent upon the individuals manifest potential towards realizing ones ultimate potential as a Buddha. So, there are different traditions within Buddhism, some of which the Buddha Shakyamuni taught directly and others were taught by other Buddhas. But, a Buddha is as a Buddha does. Dzogchen sums it up quite well, showing the Yana (vehicle) progression from external dharma (precepts) to internal alchemical dharma (transformation) to self liberating dharma (pure awareness).
  • SabreSabre Veteran
    Do you call a brick a fruit or a vegetable? ;)

    With metta,
    Sabre
    So @sabre, your saying it's neither?
    Yes I would. But it could also be both, it just depends on your look at it.

    You could see it as a testable theory. But if a theory works and proves itself to be true it isn't really a theory anymore. It just becomes the truth.

    You could also see it as a religion, but for me the word 'religion' implies a faith or some aspect that is untestable. Also it usually explains the beginning of things or has a God or spirits or whatever that rules your life. And all of that is not what Buddhism is about so that's why I don't think it is a religion.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    It's a bit difficult to sum up Buddhism as a whole.
    The Buddha did not have such a difficulty. The Buddha said: "To avoid evil (harming), to cultivate good and to purify the mind, this summarises the teachings of all Buddhas".

    Regards


  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited May 2011
    Buddhism is a method (or practice) for resolving neuroses and achieving happiness, and helping others reduce suffering while you're at it. Win-win. :)
  • Malachy12Malachy12
    all of the above
  • VajraheartVajraheart Veteran
    Buddhism is a method (or practice) for resolving neuroses and achieving happiness, and helping others reduce suffering while you're at it. Win-win. :)
    Perfect!
  • ZenshinZenshin Veteran East Midlands UK Veteran
    Buddhism is a method (or practice) for resolving neuroses and achieving happiness, and helping others reduce suffering while you're at it. Win-win. :)
    Hey, lets not forget more serious mental illnesses, as an (allegedly) schizophrenic its been helping me with my psychotic thoughts as well.

    :)
  • VajraheartVajraheart Veteran
    Buddhism is a method (or practice) for resolving neuroses and achieving happiness, and helping others reduce suffering while you're at it. Win-win. :)
    Hey, lets not forget more serious mental illnesses, as an (allegedly) schizophrenic its been helping me with my psychotic thoughts as well.

    :)
    Well that would fit under neurosis as well. :) That's awesome that it's helping though!! Definitely... good on you.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    If you call it an idea/theory, we're all up the creek. If you call it a religion, we're all up the creek. Since we all seem to be up the creek, I guess we might as well be Buddhists.
  • ZenshinZenshin Veteran East Midlands UK Veteran
    @Vajraheart.

    Its given me a greater sens of calm than any prescribed medication has done, not putting down Psychiatry here, I wonder if I'd have the clarity of mind to meditate without the medication. However learning to watch the mind and how it tricks itself is allowing to watch how the "mentally ill" thoughts occur and let them slide past without chasing them and letting them re-inforce themselves in a kind of negative feedback loop, if that makes sense.
  • VajraheartVajraheart Veteran
    @Vajraheart.

    Its given me a greater sens of calm than any prescribed medication has done, not putting down Psychiatry here, I wonder if I'd have the clarity of mind to meditate without the medication. However learning to watch the mind and how it tricks itself is allowing to watch how the "mentally ill" thoughts occur and let them slide past without chasing them and letting them re-inforce themselves in a kind of negative feedback loop, if that makes sense.
    Perfect sense brother. This is my experience as well. :)
  • VajraheartVajraheart Veteran
    If you call it an idea/theory, we're all up the creek. If you call it a religion, we're all up the creek. Since we all seem to be up the creek, I guess we might as well be Buddhists.
    HAHA!! Nice.
  • santhisouksanthisouk Veteran
    Its a path to freedom.
  • ShutokuShutoku Veteran
    I'm not sure it really matters if one considers it a religion, or a theory or a philosophy.
    However in my experience most people I know of Asian decent born into a Buddhist family, call it their religion. Western people who come to Buddhism later on in life, seem more inclined to call it a philosophy or some similar term.
    I sort of break that mold though and consider it my religion.
  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    It is a religion, just not similar to the vast majority of religions. There are the religions that tell you what to believe and do, but in buddhism it provides the tools you need to go and find out for yourself.

    religion |riˈlijən|
    noun
    the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods : ideas about the relationship between science and religion.
    • details of belief as taught or discussed : when the school first opened they taught only religion, Italian, and mathematics.
    • a particular system of faith and worship : the world's great religions.
    • a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance : consumerism is the new religion.
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    edited May 2011

    religion |riˈlijən|
    noun
    the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods : ideas about the relationship between science and religion.
    but...this doesn't describe Buddhism, which has no superhuman controlling power.

    • a particular system of faith and worship : the world's great religions.
    Where is the worship in Buddhism? What/who do Buddhists worship?

  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    to an extent we can worship the buddha as we pray and some people in some traditions burn incense specifically. Here in Thailand, they have statues and what I see merely as good luck charms such as bracelets and things you offer the buddha. People have buddhist shrines in their houses, so I guess you could find some sort of worship within all of that
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    OK. I think it's a religion for Easterners, but for some Westerners it's not; it lacks the attributes of a religion. But some Westerners do consider it a religion, that's fine, too--that's their choice.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I remember we've discussed this before.
    Countless times...
    That's not to say we shouldn't be discussing it now....but I seem to recall that we've had equally diverse, yet 'correct' views before...No concrete or definitive conclusion has been reached, then or now.... :)
    It seems to be an 'imponderable' in that Buddhism seems to mean different things, to different people, at different times....
    But in a most wonderful sense, they're all great 'different things'.... :thumbsup:
  • BuckyGBuckyG
    edited May 2011
    "Begin with the past. The reason usually given for the Buddha's historical importance is that he founded one of the world's great religions. No one doubts that he did this, but our secular and pluralistic age has contracted the word "religion" so far in the direction of individual belief and practice...that to peg the Buddha as the founder of a religion is to miss the full scale of his achievement. It would be truer to say, with Trevor Ling, that he founded a civilization--one whose soul was indeed religion, but whose body was a body politic" (Huston Smith, Essays On World Religion, pp. 161-162).
  • DaozenDaozen Veteran
    edited May 2011
    Definitely a religion.

    It has a founding prophet, holy scriptures, a metaphysical description of the universe, monks, temples, rituals, it offers its practitioners salvation .. the list goes on. As a result, in almost any reference work on world religion, buddhism is amongst those listed.

    Of course, not all buddhists are fervently religious, many engage with it in their own independent way, just as many christians, muslims, etc. do with their religions.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I would dispute the "it offers practitioners Salvation".

    To my way of thinking, it does nothing of the kind.
  • 10jellis10jellis
    To sum this all up, I would say that, yes, some traditions sway a little bit to one side but mainly, I think Buddhism as a whole is either a bit of both or neither (but with some similarities to philosophy and religion). Many would disagree with that though (depending on what tradition they follow).
  • DaozenDaozen Veteran
    I would dispute the "it offers practitioners Salvation".

    To my way of thinking, it does nothing of the kind.
    Surely offering freedom from the eternal cycle of samsaric existence and associated suffering is a salvation?

  • JuliaJulia
    Definitely a religion.

    It has a founding prophet, holy scriptures, a metaphysical description of the universe, monks, temples, rituals, it offers its practitioners salvation .. the list goes on. As a result, in almost any reference work on world religion, buddhism is amongst those listed.

    Of course, not all buddhists are fervently religious, many engage with it in their own independent way, just as many christians, muslims, etc. do with their religions.
    I agree with you. Nice when someone just explain it so well like you did, it becomes so clear that it is a religion.


    :thumbsup:
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    No.

    Salvation comes from nobody but you.
    Buddhism shows the way, but offers nothing, other than that which you can glean yourself.

    You are already "saved".
    You just have no idea the door is unlocked.
  • DaozenDaozen Veteran
    Sure, Buddhism is not sufficient in itself for personal salvation ... but it is necessary. That's why buddha spent 40 years teaching it. Hence it "offers" salvation.
  • SpinyNorman2SpinyNorman2
    Many people have different opinions on this, whats yours?
    I gave up trying to classify Buddhism some time ago.

    Spiny
  • 10jellis10jellis
    I don't think it can be classified.
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    edited May 2011
    Definitely a religion.

    It has a founding prophet, holy scriptures, a metaphysical description of the universe, monks, temples, rituals, it offers its practitioners salvation .. the list goes on. As a result, in almost any reference work on world religion, buddhism is amongst those listed.
    We've discussed this before, as Fed mentioned. For Easterners, Buddhism has the trappings of a religion. For many Westerners, it doesn't. Many westerners go to sanghas where they never see monks, the sanghas are in people's homes, or other type of secular building, ritual is absent. I don't know anyone who considers the canon to be "holy", nor the Buddha a "prophet". Religion is in the eye of the beholder, when it comes to Buddhism.


  • DaozenDaozen Veteran
    I don't think it can be classified.
    Anything can be classified, it's more a question of what purpose such classification serves.

  • DaozenDaozen Veteran
    edited May 2011
    @cw it's sill a religion, even if most westerners don't encounter it that way.

    As I said previously, it's the same as christianity - just because a lot of them don't go to church, doesn't mean it's not a religion.

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