Gender Discrimination & Buddhists

BuckyG

Is it ever appropriate for a Buddhist to engage in or participate in gender discrimination?

Cloud

No. Wow that one was easy.

Daozen

Depends what you mean by "discrimination".

Acknowledging that there are difference between gender = no problem, indeed it is often a matter of practicality in regards to male & female facilities etc.

But when there is actually no real difference but one is falsely claimed (ie ability to perform certain jobs, etc) then you are looking at unwarranted discrimination IMO.

Namaste to all brothers & sisters

person

No.

Agreed.

Depends what you mean by "discrimination".

Thubten Chodron told a story once that I think may have some relation here, I'll try to retell it as best I can.

While living as a nun in Dharmsala she was attending the teachings of HHDL. The monks were serving the bread and tea and she thought how unfair it was that the monks got to do this honor while the nuns just had to sit on their hands. Then she thought if the situation were reversed she'd probably just be upset that the women had to do all the serving while the men just got to sit around.

So I don't think its ok to discriminate based upon gender, or any other arbitrary factor, for that matter. But lets make sure that it actually is discrimination and not just some mental projection of ours.

vinlyn

I think it's a difficult topic.

I remember one of our PE teachers was quite a women's libber. Except when she played in co-ed golf tournaments, and was certainly willing to move up on the tee. And except when she insisted on boy's times (in track, for example) being listed separately from girl's times. Or not allowing girls to participate in wrestling (even on an all girl's team). Etc.

compassionate_warrior

Strange question, BuckyG. Compassion, of course, would preclude discrimination on any basis. May I ask what prompted your question? Sounds like there might be an interesting story behind it.

Discrimination against women and especially (it seems) nuns exists throughout the Buddhist world, but that doesn't mean it's right or that the Buddha taught that a female rebirth was inferior, or that women aren't capable of reaching Enlightenment, or whatever other silly beliefs made it into practice or some of the canons.

NOTaGangsta

Even non Buddhists should participate in gender discrimination know wat im sayin? Shorties be trippin!

Anyways, best sheet ta do is to ignore Therevada practices thats sexist and focus on Mahayana sects that aren't! Simple solution.

BuckyG

Strange question.... May I ask what prompted your question? Sounds like there might be an interesting story behind it.

Look at my posts on nuns, etc....

Cloud

Of course this is only an issue if someone wants to be a monk/nun. Lay Buddhists can follow any tradition they want, or no specific tradition at all, or all of them, or whatever. Mostly when you hear about discrimination in Theravada, it's because of a nation/culture that views women as inferior and so this leaks into their religions. Even India, where the Buddha taught, had such a perspective and he still ordained women and set up a monastic system of bhikkhunis.

If the Buddha ordained women, surely any gender discrimination found today is not really rooted in his teachings but rather in the ignorance/delusion of the people running the show. If they were really enlightened, they'd adapt and stop using "tradition" as an excuse to discriminate, out of compassion for the many minds that would be freed from samsaric cycling. Instead, out of aversion they cling to monastic regulations that make it difficult if not impossible for women to ordain.

BuckyG

Of course this is only an issue if someone wants to be a monk/nun. Lay Buddhists can follow any tradition they want, or no specific tradition at all, or all of them, or whatever. Mostly when you hear about discrimination in Theravada, it's because of a nation/culture that views women as inferior and so this leaks into their religions. Even India, where the Buddha taught, had such a perspective and he still ordained women and set up a monastic system of bhikkhunis.

If the Buddha ordained women, surely any gender discrimination found today is not really rooted in his teachings but rather in the ignorance/delusion of the people running the show. If they were really enlightened, they'd adapt and stop using "tradition" as an excuse to discriminate, out of compassion for the many minds that would be freed from samsaric cycling. Instead, out of aversion they cling to monastic regulations that make it difficult if not impossible for women to ordain.

:rockon: :rocker: :bowdown:

Weird_Artist

indeed. Complete equality is one of the things that made the possibility of discovering more about Buddhist traditions and choosing to follow them sound attractive to me. I come from a strict protestant background, which never made sense to me.

BuckyG

Hi Weird_Artist,
Until the structural violence ends, nuns will probably continue to be discriminated against.
bucky

Weird_Artist

yes, but Buddhism is subject to culture, and in many countries that means sexism etc. Buddhism itself does not agree with sexism, if you could separate the culture from Buddhism (impossible) there would be no equality.