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Buddhism and Boxing?
DaltheJigsaw
Mountain View Veteran
Buddhism and Boxing?
Is it wrong to watch/play boxing video games and etc according to Buddhism texts?
Is it wrong to watch/play boxing video games and etc according to Buddhism texts?
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So ask yourself; is boxing and violence for sport wrong? I can easily say it's not wrong. It's fun, and meant for entertainment (and money). Manny Pacquiao makes boxing such a great sport right now. I love watching him. He is like a modern day Bruce Lee. I think he is the best boxer of our time.
Thank you!
What you think about him taking steroids??
Personally I have never used them. But as a fighter myself, I can tell you that I would not back down from a fight, or make excuses if he beat me using steroids. When you get into a ring and fight, it's war. You do whatever you have to do to win and you still do your best to follow the rules. If he can get away with using steroids, then that's fine.
Because he's still showing boxing at its best, with no ear biting or low blows, etc. I don't really know if he's using steroids, but if they're giving him an extra edge to fight the way he fights (I doubt it) I say power to him. It's sort of an ethical debate, but as a fighter I could care less.
In my opinion it's not the possibility of using steroids that make him a good fighter. It's his spirit, and the way he trains is what makes him that good. Because I remember seeing him fight when he was very young, about 6 years ago. And the first time I saw him fight, I knew that this guy was going to be big. Just by his fighting spirit. I doubt he has been using steroids all that time.
@ Mr Serenity: Yin and Yang is irrelevant to Buddhism.
Both parties agree?
And as Sea Imprint so simply says: as Buddhists, we should avoid causing harm, even if the person we harm is 'OK' with it. To me it's like an abusive relationship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asura_(Buddhism)
That's why the yin and yang is very relevant to this topic. The act of enjoying fighting, isn't Buddhist (yin, Heaven energy, feminine energy) , the thrill of physical fighting is (yang, Earth, masculine energy). So there is no reason why someone cannot incorporate both into their lives. Saying that someone cannot incorporate both into their lives just shows lack of tolerance, and ignorance towards organized fighting.
Organized fighting has been around since the beginning of man, and it will always be around. If one cannot stand it, then they should not partake in it or watch it. But that does not mean it's wrong. Everyone has different cultures, different genes, that attracts them to different things. Most boxers love to do what they do, and they get paid for it. There are risks in everything.
To insist that boxing is not Buddhism is getting to the point of fundamentalist fanaticism, of course it's not Buddhism. The point is incorporating balance into your life. In that regard, there is nothing wrong with boxing.
I would think working toward being a pure minded Buddhist is a step in the right direction, at least.
I used to watch MMA and I enjoy watching pro football, but, strictly speaking from the point of view of Buddhism, if nothing else, it's a waste of precious time. Some people liked watching Oprah and like soap operas, which are also a waste of time. I think the precept of non-harm is directed toward letting tendencies toward violence, even organized and agreed-upon violence, go away by themselves.
IMO, almost anything including war could be rationalized under the principle of "yang". Just because people have been doing violence to each other as long as there has been a human species doesn't necessarily make it a good thing. IMO the point of Buddhism is that humans should evolve beyond that.
You're thinking that organized fighting is a brutal and nonsensical thing to do. But you see by thinking that you're putting down the fighters and putting yourself in a "higher" state, basically it's prideful thinking. It isn't really a pure state of mind.
As a fighter of many years I understand where they come from. We work on our bodies and our strikes constantly. To the point where when you throw a punch you can feel the power of it. It usually ends up being hundreds of pounds stronger than someone without training. Then when we get in the ring with someone who has that same fire in their belly, that same attitude of conditioning themselves to reach their peak, that soul of a tiger, it's fun and it's a thrill. It's fun fighting with someone who is giving it all they got just like you.
And then you get the stories of the fight, that you never forget. I have some great fight stories. To get paid for that, is even more special. It's a test of your human body, your human will to persevere, and to conquer. Animals naturally fight with each other, compete with each other and so do humans. It's in our nature to want to compete and conquer. You either understand that or you don't. It doesn't mean we let it consume us.
Balance is key. That's why the *yin yang is the symbol of martial arts. Because without that symbol its almost too brutal. Most organized fighters respect balance. But even if they don't care about the yin yang, as long as they got love in their lives, that is basically the same as Buddhism. Love is the opposite of fighting.
Organized fighting is just that, organized. So with that in mind, it's really no big deal as long as both fighters want it. So with that reason alone Buddhists should not protest it, and just let it be. To protest it and say it's "not" Buddhist, or that it's not right, that's more prideful thinking rather than compassionate thinking.
Watch or play boxing games because of what? If these motivations are negative then the result of playing will ultimately be so.
Boxing is a discipline, however, where individuals pit their skills against one another in a monitored setting in order to refine their discipline. I would say, then, that comparing it to ufc style entertainment is unfair. Is one appreciating skill or enjoying violence?
Yet, the OP posed this question and so I think his/her motivation for doing so should be the basis of a valid answer. Perhaps unease is felt whilst playing.
Maybe study the mind whilst playing these games and discern whether or not you find the effects affect your practice in any way. Then think about would would be a wise way to proceed.
Video games tend to leave me worn out and dazed but that's just me
I agree, in general even without refrencing Buddhism, that these things can be colossal wastes of time. But with the right approach they can also be deeply re-charging and inspiring.
Its called recreation and it serves an important purpose. Periods of rest and unwinding and just pure out pleasure have a time and place and they often can be great allies in leading a very productive life. It is truly a great curse/benefit depending on how we use it.
Also, someone said about causing harm. Its true that fighting sports cause more direct harm but still, pretty much any sport you are trying to cause harm to the opponent. Even in tennis, you try to cause harm to the persons body to make it slower and easier to beat.
DN 1
PTS: D i 1
Brahmajāla Sutta: The All-embracing Net of Views
translated from the Pali by
Bhikkhu Bodhi The lay person however, decides for himself. Buddha cared not whether other people understood or took his teachings to heart and to what extent (being completely liberated from such thoughts and feelings). You are responsible for your own salvation.
I think we're now getting into the rationalization phase of this thread.
If any boxers are out there, can you face an opponent in the ring with compassion and no desire to actually hurt someone, only see who is the most skilled? If you lose, are you happy for the other person and determined to improve your skills?
I have done kickboxing for a while (Muay Thai). Also been a fan of boxing a long time. Muay Thai is basically boxing, just with kicks, elbows and knees added in.
I put on gloves a mouth piece, a head piece, and so does my opponent when we get in a ring to spar. We use pads sometimes too. However, there is a difference between sparring to test techniques, and fighting each other to test our skills.
To test techniques in a repetition sequence usually we're punching and kicking at around 75-85 percent. It's very controlled, and respectful. It is a mutual effort to help each other improve. But now, in a sparring match where you test each others skills in a real time fight, that is different.
I would say sparring can vary between 85-95 percent aggression. Not anger, just aggression in trying to win the fight. Then if the fight is for money, or for trophies that's where the 100 percent is present. Both fighters are presenting a gift to each other though.
When you enter the ring with another fighter, it's an opportunity to unleash your fury on someone else who also wants to do the same thing. It's a test of your might, your skill, your prowess, your ability to follow rules, etc. So it's not about anger, it's about the thrill of the fight.
That's not Buddhist, but I don't see why it's wrong. Both fighters want to do it, both have probably won and lost before. So they know what they're in for. It's just the nature of the person fighting in the ring to want to do that. They're being true to themselves. Never once had I fought in a ring where I doubted myself, or asked myself if I really wanted to do it. I always wanted to, and it was always a thrill whether I won or lost.
So anyone who says boxing is wrong or not proper for Buddhists probably does not understand the soul of a fighter. I am a fighter, but I am also a lover too. There is a balance there, some people either understand that or they can't.
I should also add that the school I did Muay Thai at had a Thai Buddha right at the front of the mat. It was a very important part of the school.
My understanding is that to win you have to harm and to motivate yourself and build the necessary level of aggression you have to drop the compassion you might otherwise feel for your opponent. How does boxing square with 'May all beings be well and happy'? The loser will be neither of those things as a direct result fo your actions.
Boxing isn't for me and I don't see it as compatible with buddhism either.
Muay Thai is kickboxing, and also a martial art (the art of eight limbs). It is more brutal than American boxing, due to the elbows and feet added in. However, in actuality the most violent and aggressive martial art I've ever done was Kendo. This was the martial art where I received the most injuries almost on a weekly basis. It was actually from that art of killing with a sword where I learned about zen and Buddhism.
Even though we spent 1 hour+ killing each other with swords, no one ever actually died. We always bowed to each other at the beginning and end of a match, and regardless of who won the match we always said thank you to each other. And at the end of every class there was always "mokuso" meditation.
So this is why I feel that if Buddhism can co-exist with Kendo, and also Muay Thai it can also be fine with boxing. If one doesn't like it though, then of course just don't watch it.
IF you want to do it, is up to you. It's just not bringing you closer to nirvana. I don't think it's necessary to make all these twists and turns to get away from that simple fact.
The question was "Is it wrong to watch/play boxing video games and etc according to Buddhism texts?"
And the answer is simply "yes".
I think too often we become attached to what is or is not Buddhist. If Mr. Serenity finds that his Buddhism and his love of fighting can mutually co-exist then more power to him (so to speak) I say.